Yep agree with this. But that’s the point. We won’t be getting him either way then as if Dees want to keep him they can with a contract running to 2030. If they don’t want him, caveat emptor.
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List Mgmt. 2024 List Mismanagement and Trading
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They might really want to keep him, but still see him as somewhat risky, and we might be able to offer enough that they see this offer as better than retaining the risk
That's the only situation it works
If they are keen to offload him there's no way we should be interested. So far they've kept him which says a lot
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We already have tried to get him and that's presumably with a fair bit of inside knowledge on him via Burgess.
Whether his summer meltdown has changed our view completely who knows
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An article in the Hun re Saints inc biggest improver this year
The big-bodied midfield-forward has special traits and can rise up to pluck a mark, or spin out of a pack to lob a goal on the run.
But a long season caught up with him last year as the top-10 pick rounded out the campaign in quiet fashion, averaging nine touches in his last five games.
As his fitness builds (and he has shone on the track so far this preseason) Phillipou will be given greater responsibilities to lead this new era at St Kilda.
But Lyon will make him earn it with hard work at training and consistent efforts in games.
Phillipou has huge upside in his game and the Saints need him to become a legitimate star of the comp after he gets 100-150 AFL games under his belt.
Essendon took Elijah Tsatas over Phillipou at pick five in the 2022 draft, but it was a close call.
Biggest improver in 2024?
Phillipou is the one.The big-bodied midfield-forward has special traits and can rise up to pluck a mark, or spin out of a pack to lob a goal on the run.
But a long season caught up with him last year as the top-10 pick rounded out the campaign in quiet fashion, averaging nine touches in his last five games.
As his fitness builds (and he has shone on the track so far this preseason) Phillipou will be given greater responsibilities to lead this new era at St Kilda.
But Lyon will make him earn it with hard work at training and consistent efforts in games.
Phillipou has huge upside in his game and the Saints need him to become a legitimate star of the comp after he gets 100-150 AFL games under his belt.
Essendon took Elijah Tsatas over Phillipou at pick five in the 2022 draft, but it was a close call.
Would be very, very shocked if Saints don’t lock him away.
We need more on the rumour phillipou isn't happy at the Saints
Agreed. But we gotta try don’t we?
Firstly, he is one of a minority (less than 5 IIRC) first rounders from 2022 who haven’t extended yet. Ideally this situation remains like this mid way through the year. We would have already offered a substantial offer IMO - perhaps up to 700-800k x 5 years.
The Saints wont want to pay that much but are likely to match and re-sign him. Just like Hawks and Day.
but after no trade targets this year (despite red hot cracks at Redman and Day, and later Petty), I can’t see who else of note we would be chasing end of this year? Hayward doesnt excite me, not an upgrade to existing players and and not a position of need.
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How can we make Phillipou unhappy at the Saints?
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Provide him footage of Ross Lyon game plans v attacking Crows style.... with full crowd vision.
Play finals and they don't
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Signed a new deal only last year.
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Maybe Brad Crouch will be talking us up to him
If you listen to Mattaes pre-draft interviews, they are a good indication of what he expects.
1) “I followed Port as a kid but I wasn’t a fanatic like some of my mates. I was much more interested in the NBA than the AFL”
2) ”Ideally I would like to go number one in the draft”.
3) “I don’t mind moving interstate, I am happy to go wherever I am able to achieve my AFL objectives”.
Some people thought he was/is an egotistical dick but if you know his father (and grand father) it is simply his supreme self confidence. Imho he is just as likely to ask for a trade to Sydney or Brisbane as Adelaide or Poort Pear. He will remain at St Kilda provided they look like a premiership chance AND are willing to pay him what he believes he is worth.
If we finish well in front of the Saints and Poort AND we are willing to offer him an immediate midfield role AND Big Bucks then I’m telling you we’re a chance.
1) “I followed Port as a kid but I wasn’t a fanatic like some of my mates. I was much more interested in the NBA than the AFL”
2) ”Ideally I would like to go number one in the draft”.
3) “I don’t mind moving interstate, I am happy to go wherever I am able to achieve my AFL objectives”.
Some people thought he was/is an egotistical dick but if you know his father (and grand father) it is simply his supreme self confidence. Imho he is just as likely to ask for a trade to Sydney or Brisbane as Adelaide or Poort Pear. He will remain at St Kilda provided they look like a premiership chance AND are willing to pay him what he believes he is worth.
If we finish well in front of the Saints and Poort AND we are willing to offer him an immediate midfield role AND Big Bucks then I’m telling you we’re a chance.
Remind him how irrelevant the Saints have been and still are.
The situation has changed since we went after him during the trade period. He seemed to have lost his way but hadn't gone full Ben Cousins at that stage, he is now well on his way.
Every time one of these stories comes out our interest would be getting less and less, I would say right now we wouldn't touch him. But there is a long time until the next trade period so things can always change if he gets himself sorted (in which case Dees would likely want to keep him)
Ok good insights. IMO he appears above average ego-centric (my layman’s psychological analysis!) where optimising $$ would likely be an important part of him feeling like he is receiving the recognition “he deserves”.
Crows can likely outbid Saints but IMHO shouldn’t be going more than 750/800k on a long term deal but assuming his form dictates it perhaps we do need to go this hard, or very marginally above, to get him. We did go hard at Day but not sure offering another 100-150k per year to Day would have worked or if Horks just end up also likely matching for their best youngster and then media speculation gets out causing crows salary benchmarking issues with our own younger players re-signing
also the age old issue of the “no ####head” policy we have normally adhered to. Not casting aspersions about Philippou at all re this but that’s the other consideration bringing in talented players like him, Oliver etc and impact on playing group standards (consistently applied) and culture
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I'm not 100% sure what this sentence means?
It's too much to compare Clarry and Phillipou.
It's maybe not too much to ponder whether a playing group might find Phillipou's "self belief" to be annoying.
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Show him a picture of Dawson, Rankine, Pedlar, Curtin and a blank spot with a ? and say that is an open spot for the next crows premiership midfielder.....who wouldn't want to be part of that midfield group
Mattaes has never had a question mark over his behaviour. Whilst he is a very driven individual his footy preparation has always been exemplary and there has never been a question regarding his off field behaviour.
If any of our players are concerned about a teammate who sets very high standards for himself then we have a big problem. There are players like this in every footy club and I would be happy to have another one.
Yes that’s what I tried to say but in a very clumsy way (upon rereading) and certainly not comparing any players to the Oliver situation here. The impact of more “individual“ types (like Philippou perhaps seems to be) or other troubled players (like Oliver) etc. I was questioning how does the club look at such acquisitions in terms of overall impact on culture.
I am all for getting Philippou as I have said many times. Not so much Oliver
Taken out of context out of what I was trying to say and I understand how this was done - me using poor wording admittedly- and yes there is no correlation between Philippou and Oliver as explained above. Would love to get Pilippou in he door
AFL: Champion Data reveals the deepest lists, with GWS, Carlton and Collingwood rated highly
Halfway through the 2023 season, few would have expected the GWS Giants or Carlton to make finals, let alone shape finals.
The two clubs got on spectacular rolls and powered through to preliminary final losses.
While both clubs have superstars — Toby Greene at the Giants and Charlie Curnow at the Blues — they also have deep lists.
Champion Data has combed through each 2023 list and picked out the players rated in the top 50 in every position to help discover the best depth.
It’s no surprise that Collingwood finished with the most players inside the top 50 in their respective position, with the Pies winning the flag in September thanks to a perfect spread of contributors.
Instead of just listing how many players made the grade, each club has been ranked by depth.
To rank all 18 clubs, points were assigned per player bracket within the top 50, with three points per top-10 player, two points for players ranked 11-30 and one point for those ranked 31-50.
For example, GWS had seven top-10 players (for 21 points), six ranked 11-30 (12 points) and nine ranked 31-50 (nine points) to equal a total of 42.
When two teams were tied, the tie-breaker came down to the team with more total players ranked inside the top 50 per position.
The depth analysis is based on 2023 lists, so retirees like Isaac Smith (rated the seventh-best mid-forward in the game) or players traded like Lachie Schultz (eighth-best general forward) remain counted to their 2023 clubs.
Only players who played at least 12 games qualified, with rankings based on ranking points.
Check out where your clubs sits in the depth charts, from the high-flyers to the cellar dwellers needing more contributors.
1. GWS GIANTS
Depth analysis points: 42Top 10 players: 7, Top 11-30 players: 6, Top 31-50 players: 9, Total players: 22
POSITIONAL BREAKDOWN
Defenders – Top 10: 3, Top 11-30: 2, Top 31-50: 2
Midfielders – Top 10: 1, Top 11-30: 4, Top 31-50: 1
Forwards – Top 10: 3, Top 11-30: 0, Top 31-50: 6
Top 10 players: Toby Greene (3rd – gen fwd), Kieren Briggs (6th – ruck), Lachie Whitfield (9th – gen def), Sam Taylor (9th – key def), Brent Daniels (10th – gen fwd), Harry Himmelberg (10th – key def), Jesse Hogan (10th – key fwd)
2. CARLTON
Depth analysis points: 423. COLLINGWOOD
Depth analysis points: 414. MELBOURNE
Depth analysis points: 405. BRISBANE LIONS
Depth analysis points: 396. ADELAIDE (equal 5th)
Depth analysis points: 39Top 10: 6, Top 11-30: 9, Top 31-50: 3, Total: 18
Defenders – Top 10: 0, 11-30: 2, 31-50: 3
Midfielders – Top 10: 3, 11-30: 3, 31-50: 0
Forwards – Top 10: 3, 11-30: 4, 31-50: 0
Top 10 players: Taylor Walker (2nd – key fwd), Rory Laird (4th – mid), Izak Rankine (5th – gen fwd), Ben Keays (7th, gen fwd), Jordan Dawson (8th, mid), Reilly O’Brien (9th – ruck)
Crows fans will tell you they should have made finals — if not for a certain poster — and our rankings show why.
Adelaide has six top-10 players, a figure only bettered by GWS.
Izak Rankine landed in the top five. Picture: Daniel Pockett/Getty Images
Josh Rachele (11th, general forward) was just outside that top-10 and should jump in soon.
Adelaide showed it can be a deadly attacking side in 2023 but needs a boost in defence, with Josh Worrell (15th, key defender) the highest-rated backman despite only playing 12 games.
Veteran Rory Sloane fell to the 60th-ranked midfielder.
Then
Sydney
Richmond
Bullies
Horks
Freo
Geelong
Essendon
14. PORT ADELAIDE (very surprised so low including low ranked players like Rozee)
Depth analysis points: 33Top 10: 3, 11-30: 8, 31-50: 8, Total: 19
Defenders: Top 10: 3, 11-30: 1, 31-50: 4
Midfielders: Top 10: 0, 11-30: 4, 31-50: 2
Forwards: Top 10: 2, 11-30: 3, 31-50: 2
Top 10 players: Dan Houston (3rd – gen def), Charlie Dixon (4th – key fwd), Jeremy Finlayson (6th – key fwd)
Is Port Adelaide the team that won 13 games in a row and looked like a premiership contender or the team that got swept aside to a straight-sets finals exit?
These numbers suggest Ken Hinkley’s men are closer to the latter.
Zak Butters (11th, midfielder) and Connor Rozee (20th, midfielder) have better reputations than their rankings, while Jeremy Finlayson (sixth, key forward) is the opposite.
The Power midfield is probably another year or two away — Jason Horne-Francis was ranked 59th among midfielders and Ollie Wines 54th.
If their weapons become true top-10 players, the Power will be contenders.
But this list has some holes that need to be plugged, with their bevy of recruits not rating highly either.
St Kilda - also seems low
Gold Coast - ditto
West Coast
Kangas
From above article
2023 General forward Top 5
| Rank - Player | SuperCoach ranking points |
| 1st - Dustin Martin (Richmond) | 94.4 |
| 2nd - Dylan Moore (Hawthorn) | 90.9 |
| 3rd - Toby Greene (GWS Giants) | 90.9 |
| 4th - Isaac Heeney (Sydney) | 84.1 |
| 5th - Izak Rankine (Adelaide) |
2023 Key forward Top 5
| Rank - Player | SuperCoach ranking points |
| 1st - Charlie Curnow (Carlton) | 93 |
| 2nd - Taylor Walker (Adelaide) | 89.6 |
| 3rd - Joe Daniher (Brisbane Lions) | 84.2 |
| 4th - Charlie Dixon (Port Adelaide) | 83 |
| 5th - Jeremy Cameron (Geelong) | 82.7 |
2023 Key Defender Top 5
| Rank - Player | SuperCoach ranking points |
| 1st - James Sicily (Hawthorn) | 114.2 |
| 2nd - Jordan Ridley (Essendon) | 94.9 |
| 3rd - Callum Wilkie (St Kilda) | 93 |
| 4th - Harris Andrews (Brisbane Lions) | 88.7 |
| 5th - Brennan Cox (Fremantle) | 87.8 |
2023 Ruck Top 5
| Rank - Player | SuperCoach ranking points |
| 1st - Tim English (Western Bulldogs) | 128 |
| 2nd - Rowan Marshall (St Kilda) | 116.2 |
| 3rd - Max Gawn (Melbourne) | 106.2 |
| 4th - Jarrod Witts (Gold Coast) | 106.1 |
| 5th - Sean Darcy (Fremantle) | 105.5 |
2023 General Defender Top 5
| Rank - Player | SuperCoach ranking points |
| 1st - Tom Stewart (Geelong) | 113.6 |
| 2nd - Luke Ryan (Fremantle) | 109.5 |
| 3rd - Dan Houston (Port Adelaide) | 107.4 |
| 4th - Jack Sinclair (St Kilda) | 105.9 |
| 5th - Harry Sheezel (North Melbourne) | 99.5 |
2023 Midfielder-forward Top 5
| Rank - Player | SuperCoach ranking points |
| 1st - Jack Macrae (Western Bulldogs) | 100 |
| 2nd - Shai Bolton (Richmond) | 96.7 |
| 3rd - Caleb Daniel (Western Bulldogs) | 92.9 |
| 4th - Sam Flanders (Gold Coast) | 88.6 |
| 5th - Dayne Zorko (Brisbane Lions) |
2023 Wing Top 5
| Rank - Player | SuperCoach ranking points |
| 1st - Errol Gulden (Sydney) | 112 |
| 2nd - Josh Daicos (Collingwood) | 93.3 |
| 3rd - Mason Wood (St Kilda) | 91.3 |
| 4th - Nic Martin (Essendon) | 88.1 |
| 5th - Steele Sidebottom (Collingwood) | 87.5 |
2023 Midfielder Top 5
| Rank - Player | SuperCoach ranking points |
| 1st - Marcus Bontempelli (Western Bulldogs) | 129.5 |
| 2nd - Clayton Oliver (Melbourne) | 122.9 |
| 3rd - Christian Petracca (Melbourne) | 118.2 |
| 4th - Rory Laird (Adelaide) | 116.8 |
| 5th - Zach Merrett (Essendon) | 116.4 |
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