Team Mgmt. 2025 Forward Line

[Red Black and Blue]

He's had one bad game this year. Here's a comparison between him and Dylan Moore this year:

View attachment 2324681

Pretty damn even, and Moore is one of the best flankers in the country. Calling it ridiculous isn't immaturity, it's accurate

Perkins has had a very good year. Was one of 4 players the club nominated for player of the month last month.

 

[cobra land]

Laverde went back because he failed as a forward.

Had a lot of injuries early in his career when he played forward, I'd like another look at him now playing that role again.

 

[blitzer]

With Langford injured and our midfield mostly fit (especially once Parish returns) I would personally take Durham from the midfield and play him in Langford's role. Parish/Tsatas/Hobbs can make up the midfield time and we still have Caldwell/Setterfield to keep reasonable defensive balance in there.

This would be a change of structure but it seems foolish to try to maintain the same setup of talls after we've had so many injuries to talls. At this point might as well go for a more dynamic forward line. Durham also is a much better runner than Langford and I think would add a lot more defensive pressure.

I'd also do similar with the backline and have Redman play tall and bring in Zak Johnson. Will be interesting to see what the coaching panel actually decides to do.

 

[div12ressie]

What happened with redman being one of the best defensive floaters? Was in AA form playing that role

 

[ghostdog]

He's had one bad game this year. Here's a comparison between him and Dylan Moore this year:

View attachment 2324681

Pretty damn even, and Moore is one of the best flankers in the country. Calling it ridiculous isn't immaturity, it's accurate

Calling it hate is immature.
Durham went in and played the role better than Perkins against the Tigers.
That's not hate. That's a valid opinion.

Edit: removed comment about arrogance because it was immature.

 

[Schnitzengruben]

The Perkins hate on this board is getting ridiculous

This is one of this circumstances where I don't think you can look at the stat sheet and infer he's had a good year.

The lethargic running, poor defensive work and the half chases - it's hard to see that reflected in the footy record.

I think he is quite talented but so far he has undperformed his potential.

 

[Yoda_]

This is one of this circumstances where I don't think you can look at the stat sheet and infer he's had a good year.

The lethargic running, poor defensive work and the half chases - it's hard to see that reflected in the footy record.

I think he is quite talented but so far he has undperformed his potential.

Unpopular opinion but Archie Perkins is almost the least of out problems

Jade Gresham (poor tackler, lacks goal kicking), Jye Menzie (see Gresham), Kako (isn't kicking goals just yet), Caddy (getting to contests but not marking everything, poor goal kicking this year - 12.14), Peter Wright (concrete hands, confidence), Matt Guelfi (stay on the park for more than 6 weeks, is he even good enough to hold his spot in a top 8 side?)

Meanwhile Archie is being questioned for his goal kicking (goal a game half forward is ok), and linking up well enough (16.7 possessions a game). Tackles (2.3) could be higher but our whole forward line lacks this.

 

[Keystone agony]

Unpopular opinion but Archie Perkins is almost the least of out problems

Jade Gresham (poor tackler, lacks goal kicking), Jye Menzie (see Gresham), Kako (isn't kicking goals just yet), Caddy (getting to contests but not marking everything, poor goal kicking this year - 12.14), Peter Wright (concrete hands, confidence), Matt Guelfi (stay on the park for more than 6 weeks, is he even good enough to hold his spot in a top 8 side?)

Meanwhile Archie is being questioned for his goal kicking (goal a game half forward is ok), and linking up well enough (16.7 possessions a game). Tackles (2.3) could be higher but our whole forward line lacks this.

Sure but your comparing him to 18-19 yr olds or guys that we got for a can of bake beans

2MP has also been pretty good since he returned, Caddy has been excellent

 

[Yoda_]

Sure but your comparing him to 18-19 yr olds or guys that we got for a can of bake beans

2MP has also been pretty good since he returned, Caddy has been excellent

Gresham is 27, Menzie is 23, Guelfi is 25 or whatever

Perkins is the least of our problems in the same type of role (small medium fwd)

 

[Keystone agony]

Gresham is 27, Menzie is 23, Guelfi is 25 or whatever

Perkins is the least of our problems in the same type of role (small medium fwd)

Yep all 3 we got for pretty much nothing

Your right though we have other issues, but that doesnt absolve him of people saying hes avg, been avg and not really showing any progression

 

[Yoda_]

Yep all 3 we got for pretty much nothing

Your right though we have other issues, but that doesnt absolve him of people saying hes avg, been avg and not really showing any progression

dont get me wrong id love for him to have a rest but I would much prefer to have Parish come in and play HF in lieu of an underperforming Jade Gresham let alone Perkins

 

[ghostdog]

Unpopular opinion but Archie Perkins is almost the least of out problems

Jade Gresham (poor tackler, lacks goal kicking), Jye Menzie (see Gresham), Kako (isn't kicking goals just yet), Caddy (getting to contests but not marking everything, poor goal kicking this year - 12.14), Peter Wright (concrete hands, confidence), Matt Guelfi (stay on the park for more than 6 weeks, is he even good enough to hold his spot in a top 8 side?)

Meanwhile Archie is being questioned for his goal kicking (goal a game half forward is ok), and linking up well enough (16.7 possessions a game). Tackles (2.3) could be higher but our whole forward line lacks this.

I question Archie's defensive efforts and competitiveness.
He gets on the end of chains and is a good kick for goal when he gets a chance, but Durham is fierce and makes things happen.

After the other night, I'm of the mind that he should play forward in lieu of Langford, and then take Perkins's place when Langford returns. He's got an excellent leap, he's quick, can kick goals, pinch in the middle to a high standard and play defensively as a forward.

Duz forward allows us to measure the impact of other on-ballers together: Caldwell, Hobbs, Setterfield and dare I say Tsatas. Parish's return is also imminent.

 

[Yoda_]

I question Archie's defensive efforts and competitiveness.
He gets on the end of chains and is a good kick for goal when he gets a chance, but Durham is fierce and makes things happen.

After the other night, I'm of the mind that he should play forward in lieu of Langford, and then take Perkins's place when Langford returns. He's got an excellent leap, he's quick, can kick goals, pinch in the middle to a high standard and play defensively as a forward.

Duz forward allows us to measure the impact of other on-ballers together: Caldwell, Hobbs, Setterfield and dare I say Tsatas. Parish's return is also imminent.

you are robbing Peter to pay Paul by shifting Durham. Not only that but Perkins is the least of our problems.

If you want to, shift Gresham out, move Durham out and then pressure Perkins to tackle more and allow Durham to play the role Perkins is trying to do

 

[ghostdog]

you are robbing Peter to pay Paul by shifting Durham. Not only that but Perkins is the least of our problems.

If you want to, shift Gresham out, move Durham out and then pressure Perkins to tackle more and allow Durham to play the role Perkins is trying to do

I don't think so.
I'm thinking long term and Perkins currently isn't there.
Don't worry, neither is Gresham or Menzie.
Adding a more competitive element to our forwardline, who we're always whinging about allowing the ball to rebound away from, and making space to determine what we keep and move on from our midfield, isn't robbing Peter to pay Paul, if you're planning for the future.

 

[Keystone agony]

dont get me wrong id love for him to have a rest but I would much prefer to have Parish come in and play HF in lieu of an underperforming Jade Gresham let alone Perkins

I dont think anyones asking for him to be dropped, are they?

He was pretty good on the weekend and we just lost langford

 

[Yoda_]

I don't think so.
I'm thinking long term and Perkins currently isn't there.
Don't worry, neither is Gresham or Menzie.
Adding a more competitive element to our forwardline, who we're always whinging about allowing the ball to rebound away from, and making space to determine what we keep and move on from our midfield, isn't robbing Peter to pay Paul, if you're planning for the future.

I dont think anyones asking for him to be dropped, are they?

He was pretty good on the weekend and we just lost langford

Just sounds like Perkins is being a rage despite not being in the worst few in the front half. Understand we expect more

He strikes me as the sort of guy who, with better players around him, could provide a bigger output

 

[ghostdog]

Just sounds like Perkins is being a rage despite not being in the worst few in the front half. Understand we expect more

He strikes me as the sort of guy who, with better players around him, could provide a bigger output

Agree, so I'm willing to see how he goes with Durham playing forward as well. Surely he would then have the space and time to play better.
A player like Durham brings others into the game. Gresh and Kako would be beneficiaries as well.

 

[Keystone agony]

Yeh id be moving Gresham on before Perkins

You might be as good with ground ball if Durhams there with Kako, but then you probably lose the ability to have him in the midfield

 

[Yoda_]

Yeh id be moving Gresham on before Perkins

You might be as good with ground ball if Durhams there with Kako, but then you probably lose the ability to have him in the midfield

To be fair, a tag - team of Parish into Durham is pretty handy, providing DP3 stays fit

 

[ant555]

He's had one bad game this year. Here's a comparison between him and Dylan Moore this year:

View attachment 2324681

Pretty damn even, and Moore is one of the best flankers in the country. Calling it ridiculous isn't immaturity, it's accurate

And how has his defensive work been ? That is the part of his game that concerns' me the most. His forward craft is pretty good. His skills are generally good. Even his work rate is generally okay but the flaw he has is he is a ball watcher and a slow reactor to what he needs to do in the team defence which is why you often see him 10 meters behind the opposition when they are going the other way. It is not that he is lazy as some say. He just doesn't process it quick enough. If you watch him live he actually works up and back pretty well. He simply doesn't think quick enough at times. He is not alone as far as that goes but it is his issue.

The criticism will keep coming as nearly everyone touted him as a star in the making and a player that was going to be the big bodied midfielder to lead the way. At the end of the day he is what I predicted. Not a midfielder. He is a half forward with decent skills who has the ability to kick 30 goals or there abouts.(think I predicted 40). It is just not sexy to be a B grade half forward when we where looking for a super star from one of those picks.

As mentioned above this year Moore is down on his form of previous seasons.

Year	Team	GM	K	H	D	M	G	B	T	HO	FF	FA	GA	I50	CL	CG	R50	BL
2025​	Hawks​	11*​	101​	78​	179​	41​	11​	7​	31​	0​	18​	9​	3​	32​	25​	26​	7​	​
2024​	Hawks​	25​	279​	208​	487​	133​	36​	18​	99​	0​	48​	13​	33​	102​	49​	59​	7​	9​
2023​	Hawks​	23​	254​	226​	480​	107​	17​	19​	91​	0​	32​	9​	15​	78​	31​	52​	19​	1​
2022​	Hawks​	22​	243​	201​	444​	124​	26​	14​	92​	0​	44​	11​	14​	85​	43​	65​	14​	1​
2021​	Hawks​	20​	160​	147​	307​	76​	27​	11​	58​	0​	27​	9​	13​	44​	10​	32​	7​	​
2020​	Hawks​	3​	18​	22​	40​	14​	2​	1​	5​	0​	2​	0​	1​	6​	0​	3​	1​	1​
2019​	Hawks​	7​	36​	47​	83​	31​	2​	2​	20​	0​	5​	5​	7​	15​	5​	11​	4​

Averages

2025​

Hawks​

11*​

9.2​

7.1​

16.3​

3.7​

1.0​

0.6​

2.8​

0​

1.6​

0.8​

0.3​

2.9​

2.3​

2.4​

0.6​

​

2024​

Hawks​

25​

11.2​

8.3​

19.5​

5.3​

1.4​

0.7​

4.0​

0​

1.9​

0.5​

1.3​

4.1​

2.0​

2.4​

0.3​

0.39​

2023​

Hawks​

23​

11.0​

9.8​

20.9​

4.7​

0.7​

0.8​

4.0​

0​

1.4​

0.4​

0.7​

3.4​

1.4​

2.3​

0.8​

0.04​

2022​

Hawks​

22​

11.1​

9.1​

20.2​

5.6​

1.2​

0.6​

4.2​

0​

2.0​

0.5​

0.6​

3.9​

1.9​

3.0​

0.6​

0.05​

2021​

Hawks​

20​

8.0​

7.3​

15.3​

3.8​

1.4​

0.6​

2.9​

0​

1.4​

0.5​

0.7​

2.2​

0.5​

1.6​

0.3​

​

2020​

Hawks​

3​

6.0​

7.3​

13.3​

4.7​

0.7​

0.3​

1.7​

0​

0.7​

0​

0.3​

2.0​

0​

1.0​

0.3​

0.33​

2019​

Hawks​

7​

5.1​

6.7​

11.9​

4.4​

0.3​

0.3​

2.9​

0​

0.7​

0.7​

1.0​

2.1​

0.7​

1.6​

0.6​

Dylan Moore of the Hawthorn Hawks Career AFL Stats

Dylan Moore of Hawthorn Hawks career AFL statistics

www.footywire.com

 

[Agronomus]

The Perkins hate on this board is getting ridiculous

And the negativity over Caldwell as well

 

[Ambrosia]

Laverde went back because he failed as a forward.

Thought there was also a big element of hoping his body would hold up better as a defender

 

[ant555]

Will be interesting to see how Perkins goes with Langford out. I think there is a bit of the same issue between Perkins and Langford as there was with Langford and Stringer as far as lack of chemistry goes when both are forward.

The issue with the forward line is still the same for me although it can be hard to get a read on exactly how the small forwards are going when we continue to kick the ball to two on one contests and play one small forward at the contest. It can be hard for the fill in guys like Hobbs to have an impact pressure wise in games like Friday where we just kick the footy straight to the opposition or an out number. Same with kako who is getting very few crumbing opportunities and is doing a lot of up and back running due to our poor inside 50 execution.

As for players.

Gresham is just too inconsistent. Plays a bit of an invisible role at times as a high half forward but he just has not put it together this year. Last year he had some good patches but was pretty inconsistent as well. I think his best form has been as a deep forward pocket but he is only average pace and does not always maximize his chances.

2MP. Have no issues with how he has come back as forward / second ruck. You can not expect him to play like a good FF and hold down the forward half as well as take a decent percentage of the ruck. I have been a big critic but he is whtr he is. he is never going to be a great contested mark as he is a guy who simply does not have great core strength. This year he is back to where he was marking wise. If his kicking was on song this year he would have 5 or 6 goals more. His best is B grade. He is not quick so he does not get a lot of separation so he needs the footy just out in front on the lead but we seem to just drop it on his head. As the second ruck he offers more than most second rucks.

Bringing in Draper here as this is the decision we need to make. Are we happy to go with Bryan or Draper with 2MP as the second. Draper was doing good things forward and as a deap forward he created contests that 2MP doesn't always create.
I am not seeing the world world where all three play if we are looking to improve the forward line.

Guelfi is a good scrapper and can play a good role in locking down a half back and still kick goals but has to play with two quicker small forwards or we look slow. Is a pretty strong mark for his size. He is the pick for me between him and Gresham as at least he can play that lock down role on attacking half backs.

ADJ. Has really disappointed. I liked what he had to offer at under 18 level. The hype on him was way too high but he played at a much better level than he has displayed in the last two years. Have gone back and watched several of his games I have saved on my footy hard drive and he was involved more and more physical. Maybe he has been gun shy playing against bigger bodies but I suspect he has become a nervous player since he did his shoulder. His form with us before that was more promising than it is now. He just plays the game like he is setting up for the least amount of contact with the upper body. He will go in and bump with the hips. He tends not to take front on contact if he sees it coming and runs at the footy very uprite a lot of the time and does not always bend to pick it up. Also think he lacks the tank to play any more of a cameo role up the ground. He has looked okay in outside roles in patches but it has not been sustainable.

Langford has simply dropped off the cliff due to soft tissue injuries in the last two years.

kako has a lot to work on as you would expect for a young bloke but he competes all the time. Is a bit of a victim of our poor F50 entries and lack of crumbing opportunities. He also tends to gas himself with the sheer amount of chasing he ends up doing. I do not think he is going to be a Cameron 60 goal small forward but I can still see him as a very good pressure forward who will kick his 25-35 goals and create scoring opportunity for his team mates. He is a decent one garb mark when it is kicked to his advantage. His skills in space are good.

Caddy is progressing well. Kicking goals most weeks. His marking is a bit inconsistent which is probably his weak point but his work rate up and back is enormous and his second and third efforts are always there. He shapes as a very high level CHF to me and I hope they do not bulk him up too much and just keep him as that running KPF. Has a decent footy IQ despite the odd rush of blood he has.

Gerryen is still a bit raw and needs another pre season to build his tank but has shown a bit as a forward.

Visentini is more a ruck but can take a good grab forward and his leading patterns are okay.

Jones can play forward but he simply does not hold his marks as a forward. He leads well. He works hard but he simply does not consistently make the most of his opportunities on the lead. Is okay when he can drift in from the side but on the lead he goes at around 20%.

Lual has been used at half forward in recent weeks. Pretty much last chance saloon. Long odds.

Day-Wicks may have something.

We really need a good FF who can stand in a contest and take some marks but not get beaten in the contest and is not shit truck slow. We also need another very good small forward. Then throw in a good medium forward which we had in Langford before the injury situation started or we need Perkins to step up to. Day- Wicks may provide that down the track.
If Geulfi can stay fit (which is a big if) he can provide the defensive role player who can just be the good ordinary player but that is only 1 slot.
Would be good if we could find another 186-188cm midfielder that does what Durhan does so we can use either at half forward in rotation.

 

[Yoda_]

At least Caddy and May is a solid foundation, Kako is tracking fine but geez the rest of the forward group is shit.

 

[andleanback]

At least Caddy and May is a solid foundation, Kako is tracking fine but geez the rest of the forward group is shit.

And what do they do when Langford returns. gotta keep playing May. So where does that leave wright.