Very good article in the herald sun a couple weeks about wright.
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List Mgmt. 2025 List Management 📃
- Thread starter Aphrodite
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- Mar 25, 2019
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We picked him up right around where he was forecast to be picked.
The chances of HOF getting to our later pick was pretty slim. He was one of the highest rated KPDs in the class, tbh I was fairly shocked he didn't go quite a bit earlier.
did that at hawthorn golden era and stripped back Collingwood
- Aug 24, 2009
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Good.
I want him to stay but on team-friendly decent coin.
Don’t begrudge him if he goes, but reckon he’d look back with regret in years to come. While it’s plenty of extra cash, there’s more to life than just dollar figures.
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Ok but we are also offering him a big contract so then the difference is meaningful but money not the sole factor.
Are you suggesting our club can’t incentivise TDK’s long term commitment?
I think the next few weeks are going to highlight some pretty awful list management on our part.
What are we going to see? Well, unlike most teams in the competition, we have basically only used four players in the midfield this year - Cripps, Walsh, Hewett, Cerra. They have typically had 15-20 centre bounce attendances, and then we usually rotate through Motlop for 3-4, and that's it. Most teams play 5 key midfielders (three who have 15+ CBAs, and TWO who rotate through for about 10-11 each = half a game in midfield), plus a couple of wildcards who have 2-3 each. In a possibly related stat, we have struggled in last quarters this year.
Lord has only been used as 'core 4' midfielder once before - in our round 24 loss to St Kilda last year, when we had half the list injured. He has been used as a 5th midfielder twice (ie 7-8 CBAs) - in our round 1 loss to Richmond, and our win against St Kilda this year. Lord is only 20, has only played 10 matches outside of being the sub, and has typically played only 60% game time. He is now expected to be a full time midfielder? Or what are the other options?
There are three other players on our list who have previously had 15+ CBAs in a game in their career. Two are Zac Williams and Sam Docherty. Both are still getting back to full fitness after injury - it's possible they play as a 4th or 5th midfielder, but who knows? Alex Cincotta and Eli Hollands have a few games as 4th-5th midfielders (ie: 8-12 CBAs) and Hollands has one with 15+ (a loss to GWS last year). Hollands is MIA and Cincotta coming back from injury. The only other midfielder on the list is Ben Camporeale.
Lets not forget that two years ago we made a preliminary final. Our list at that point had two extra players who had 50-odd games of experiences as a primary midfielder (Kennedy, Ed Curnow, and Dow) and another 3 who had experience as a 4th-5th midfielder (Fisher, Cuningham, Martin), plus Jack Carroll in the 'rookie who hasn't played yet' spot. Those 6 players all played at least 10 games that season and the depth was critical late in the year when Walsh, Cerra and Hewett all missed games.
To put it bluntly, we have only played 4 midfielders this season, which is less than most teams (and was already impacting on how we ran out games) and now don't have 4 fit midfielders. We'll likely cobble together 15 CBAs from Lord/Cincotta and paper over some cracks vs West Coast. We then have a 6 day break to play North and that suddenly looks VERY tough - particularly given TDK struggles with big ruckmen. We then have a 5 day break to play Port with at best 3 midfielders and we are just going to get smacked in that game.
How on earth we allowed Kennedy and Carroll to go, on top of Cuningham and Martin, AND on top of the other players who left in previous years (Dow/Setterfield/Fisher) without bringing in any form of replacement is just baffling. We seem to have thrown every egg we could find at Jagga Smith (ALL of our draft picks, and ALL of our midfield hopes) only to see him do an ACL preseason, with no plan B.
We also somehow seem to be penciliing in Cody Walker to considerations. He's 16 and won't even be drafted for 18 months. He won't turn 22 until the 2030s. How he is factoring into anything other than 'well that's nice down the track' is insane.
If we win all 3 upcoming games with this midfield, and this forward line (no McKay?) it will be as gritty a 3 game stretch as I can remember. Even just winning two and not giving up too much percentage against Port would be a solid effort.
Can free agent contracts even be incentive based? I thought they were pretty restrictive, ie. can't be front or back loaded and can't be renegotiated after the fact.
- Nov 27, 2016
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Some of it is because Cripps is so good. We needed a backup for him but the guys we got, couldn't really flourish under him because of his own deficiencies (defensive running etc) making it hard to play him anywhere but the guts. So we kept trying
- Nov 27, 2016
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I cant believe people don't understand this. It's the simplest motivation.
They can have incentives but only the guaranteed money counts when determining compensation.
Although contracts that are heavily incentive based are more common for lesser players not stars. Tom's not leaving us for a mega offer that is heavily incentive based.
bringdoullback
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- Mar 31, 2018
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Kennedy provided flexibility. We could throw him this week as inside mid, rotated cerra to outside mid and hewitt more as defensive mid.
We can still do that, but we will rely on Lord who won't be able to sustain it yet over 1 month.
Things change fast in football too.
St Kilda are rubbish right now and look to be in no mans land. But add a couple of draft picks, add a big free agency signing or two, and who knows in two years time.
Two years ago we looked in a great spot. Now we are in a mini rebuild and a mile off. In two years time we might be back again.
Basically - if someone offers you $12m your take it, and let the football sort itself out later. Bit like us taking Zac Williams - even in hindsight it is hard to say whether Carlton or GWS was better for him, but he got paid this way (and well done).
St Kilda are rubbish right now and look to be in no mans land. But add a couple of draft picks, add a big free agency signing or two, and who knows in two years time.
Two years ago we looked in a great spot. Now we are in a mini rebuild and a mile off. In two years time we might be back again.
Basically - if someone offers you $12m your take it, and let the football sort itself out later. Bit like us taking Zac Williams - even in hindsight it is hard to say whether Carlton or GWS was better for him, but he got paid this way (and well done).
I think it would be a good outcome for the start of our list & salary cap rejuvenation if he does go, can’t see it happening if we retain him under the current circumstances.
5 million dollars extra for a based on current form 10% less chance of a flag to go with? Easy decision
So if a potential job offer came up at another workplace who offered you double or near enough salary but that new workplace was a struggling business with not match going for it and quite depressing to be there you’d go?
Not enough to make him reject StK's nuts offer. We shouldn't be waisting time on it IMO, the minute his manager advised us of the offer he has on the table, we should have just said, no worries, our best and final offer is X, we cannot get even remotely close. Our LM team and MC for that matter should be planning NOW for life without him. Get ruck time into HOK and use TDK as a fwd. Everything points to him being gone, postponing talks, etc. He may have even advised the club he will be taking up the offer from StK, who knows.
Just on this, the players talk and will know he is gone, that may be having an adverse effect them. Coupled with personal issues to Hollands and McKay, they could be struggling with it all affecting their performance on field.
The Old Dark Navy's
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Yeah, our offer is on the table. We shouldn't be adding to it. Let him make his choice without the fussing and fighting.
Look if we were travelling better, had some success and if the difference was smaller, he may sacrifice a few sheets to stay at a successful club. We haven't been successful and the money is significant, who can blame him. TBH, good on StK for being able to put themselves in a position to exploit free agency for the exact purpose it was put in for.
If cant beat em, join em. Why cant we seem to be able to ourselves get into a position to pry a decent and required star FA loose.
An extra 5 million dollars over 7 years to go from a 10% chance of winning the flag in the next 10 years to probably a 5% chance is not ground breaking. I’m leaving Carlton in a heart beat. 10% was being generous also.
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I would 100% think of myself and my family and do the bolt in a heartbeat and get everything I could for the length of the contract they are offering.
PS from TDKs point of view, our club is probably less successful than StK over the last 25 years. From a young mans perspective, there is probably little difference in the environment. I am sure he has sounded out Stocker Dow and Carroll who may have told him its a great place to work.
- Apr 4, 2018
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I couldn’t care less if Tdk left …or any other player for that matter
player A leaves, player B gets his chance
Plenty of rucks would love the opportunity and we’ve got HOK about to hit his straps
player A leaves, player B gets his chance
Plenty of rucks would love the opportunity and we’ve got HOK about to hit his straps
I agree. I’m a Carlton supporter not a TDK supporter.I couldn’t care less if Tdk left …or any other player for that matter
player A leaves, player B gets his chance
Plenty of rucks would love the opportunity and we’ve got HOK about to hit his straps
- Sep 28, 2018
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Maybe get somebody to stock up the players’ drink machine for the next 3 years - we don’t want TDK paying for a coke…
- Aug 22, 2014
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As it stands, I'd bump up whatever we're offering JSOS by $75k a year and drop TDK's offer by the same. Not fair that a heart and soul Blue is left holding his todger, waiting for a "potentially elite" ruckman to decide just how overpaid he wants to be.
Let Tom know that the longer he holds out, the greater the chance we start doing the same with other pending contracts too.
Let Tom know that the longer he holds out, the greater the chance we start doing the same with other pending contracts too.
The Old Dark Navy's
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Maybe get somebody to stock up the players’ drink machine for the next 3 years - we don’t want TDK paying for a coke…
Nah, he's probably playing music in the changerooms and dancing in his jock strap.
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