List Mgmt. 2025 List Management discussion - part 2

[heynow85]

Buku Khamis wants out of Dogs

 

[SainterinSydney]

Buku Khamis wants out of Dogs

What did you call me?

 

[UnfinishedBusiness]

Vibe

 

[Spider Eater]

What did you call me?

Some sort of Latin I think... anyone speak Roman here?

 

[jwikked]

G'day, Saints Fans.

All jokes aside, I met Richo and he was a very decent bloke. Just not a great coach.

Always said you’d love to have him as your neighbor or father in law.

 

[StFly]

Some sort of Latin I think... anyone speak Roman here?

It means drummed Kahlua drink with a side of lemon zest and the tears of Ethopian mosquitoes.

I'd be insulted, preferred Ugandan mosquitoes tears as they're more manly.

 

[Saintpav]

Battle seemed to pull the wool over their eyes.
Players were convinced he was staying.
Then Boom, he left on his broom.

Whenever we discuss battle - it needs to be crystal clear that there was a benefit that the club sought in that entire saga.

That Tauru pick wasn’t some after thought. They coveted another top round pick.

So it is very different to Nas in the sense that if either side tries to screw around here. It hurts the other sides intended outcome.

If NAS-Williams pulls the wool over our eyes, we make it increasingly difficult to get back to SA.

If we do the wrong thing by them, let’s say low ball or leak something back in the media. They make negotiations more difficult or even end them.

But again, this is my head canon. Others will have their own takes on this.
[/QUOTE]

Classic prisoner’s dilemma:

Equilibrium: Both sides have incentives to cooperate because mutual defection hurts everyone

NAS/Williams Leverage: Can make St Kilda's life difficult in future dealings

St Kilda Leverage: Controls the path back to SA and compensation and can force him to go into PSD.

Both parties have genuine mutual dependence and clear incentives to reach a fair deal.

 

[stfan]

Roo was talking about Steele’s future and listed our mids like Nas that have gone past him and next year we also get Pou back

It is also not just who has gone past him, but also that gameplans are now favouring more your attacking damaging mid over the Ball-pigs and Defensive mids like Steele.

This is why the Dogs were ok to let Macrae go. Macrae is an upgrade on Steele in the form both are in. But even if both were in good form a team does not want two such mids at the ball-ups at the one time.

 

[stfan]

Another one on the way so we will have three .

Who is the new Irish Lad that we are signing up?

 

[Saintpav]

Whenever we discuss battle - it needs to be crystal clear that there was a benefit that the club sought in that entire saga.

That Tauru pick wasn’t some after thought. They coveted another top round pick.

So it is very different to Nas in the sense that if either side tries to screw around here. It hurts the other sides intended outcome.

If NAS-Williams pulls the wool over our eyes, we make it increasingly difficult to get back to SA.

If we do the wrong thing by them, let’s say low ball or leak something back in the media. They make negotiations more difficult or even end them.

But again, this is my head canon. Others will have their own takes on this.

Classic prisoner’s dilemma:

Equilibrium: Both sides have incentives to cooperate because mutual defection hurts everyone

NAS/Williams Leverage: Can make St Kilda's life difficult in future dealings

St Kilda Leverage: Controls the path back to SA and compensation and can force him to go into PSD.

Both parties have genuine mutual dependence and clear incentives to reach a fair deal.
[/QUOTE]

 

[thekizzler]

Yes, but Port won't be able to because they wouldn't have taken the minimum amount of first round picks in a 3 year period (I think). Would need to be ticked off from the AFL.

This is 100% true but the AFL would likely tick off a move for one of the best players in the game though.

It's not like they are trading Dan Houston and losing their first round pick somehow (yes, they really did that).

 

[St Neil]

The Melbourne flag is a tough one if we're being honest. We all want to see a Saints flag in our lifetimes, just one. But would you take it if:

• you couldn't be there for the Grand Final
• it was followed by what will probably be a decade of disappointment?

It's another reason it's really important to keep Nas, as the seas may be parting for us a little if we can. Melbourne, Carlton and Port Adelaide (if they don't have to give anything real up for Nas) are heading for long rebuilds. Richmond, West Coast and North still seem a way off. Essendon keep Essendoning. Excluding the top nine, that leaves just Sydney and us outside the group contending for finals.

There's a cliff coming at Collingwood at some stage soon-ish. More unfilfilled potential will eventually see Beveridge move on. Fremantle remain unreliable (in hot form at the moment to be sure).

Feels like we're one step away. It's a big step and one we can't seem to make yet, but it feels imminent. As long as we keep Nas.

Great post. But we still have significant ground to make up.

Adelaide and Gold Coast have timed their rebuilds perfectly. Still to peak when a number of clubs are heading over the cliff.

Adelaide have planned and organised their rebuild brilliantly. Credit where it’s due. They have taken the pain. Development has been first rate.

And bringing in homesick recruits such as Dawson and Neal-Bullen has been brilliant. We really don’t want NWM to go to Adelaide. That will make our task much harder.

Gold Coast have bought in some good recruits (eg. Long and Noble) but their list has been gifted to them. A barrage of draft concession, early picks and ongoing Academy gifts has meant their ascension has been inevitable.

And of course, on cue, they will gifted another two young guns in the first four draft picks from their Academy this year. The Suns are playing with a stacked deck. Accessing elite talent simply comes up with the rations for them.

Back to Saints, we are a few years behind them but are on the right track. Building at the base as the top gradually melts away. The process has started. I believe it is inexorable.

We absolutely have to keep NWM and build around him. If it means we play hardball and risk losing everything then so be it. It will be years before we draft and develop a talent anywhere near his level.

If he stays watch the development of those around him be fast tracked. He will set standards and raise the quality anround him. Improvement could be quicker than we anticipate.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

If Naz said he would stay for years so long as we gave Tex and Cho a spot would you do it?

Can we replace a Cho with an ah Chee?

 

[L_W_P]

Buku Khamis wants out of Dogs

Doubt we get him but I wouldn't be against it.

Khamis, Tauru & Hammer just swinging from end to end to throw out the opposition defence would be pretty cool.

Aleer locked in at CHB. Wilkie at FB.

Trade Doogs to a contender... Like the Dogs... Hmmm

 

[Dard Ball Get]

Buku Khamis wants out of Dogs

What if he gets homesick, what draft hand would Sudan hold for a trade?

 

[SainterinSydney]

What if he gets homesick, what draft hand would Sudan hold for a trade?

They say if you repeat Bhuku Khamis three times in a mirror, a Port supporter appears and says Butters will never be traded.

 

[The_Snake26]

G'day, Saints Fans.

All jokes aside, I met Richo and he was a very decent bloke. Just not a great coach.

Seemed like a nice bloke.
A mate of mine was at the saints when Richo was there.
He knew he was likely to be delisted. Richo calls him one day and asks if he’s home. Never been to his house before.
Richo: nice place you have here
Player: I’m guessing I can’t afford it anymore
Richo: yeah about that

 

[SaintsofSteel]

Buku Khamis wants out of Dogs

He would be a really good pickup, it amazes me that he has been squeezed out of the Dogs side. He can play forward/back and tall/small and Im sure Leek Aleer would love to have another Sudanese lad at the club.

 

[bergholt]

Classic prisoner’s dilemma:

Equilibrium: Both sides have incentives to cooperate because mutual defection hurts everyone

NAS/Williams Leverage: Can make St Kilda's life difficult in future dealings

St Kilda Leverage: Controls the path back to SA and compensation and can force him to go into PSD.

Both parties have genuine mutual dependence and clear incentives to reach a fair deal.

I don't see it. The prisoner's dilemma relies on symmetry and we don't have that. Our BATNA is worse than theirs. If he goes to the PSD he almost certainly still gets to Port, it's just that we get zero compensation.

Yes, Nas and Williams wouldn't want to take that chance, but it's unlikely West Coast or North or whoever are going to take him just for him to be unhappy for a year, disrupt the rest of the playing group, and ask for a trade in 12 months. They get nothing out of that.

Our negotiating position is poor, and our only hope is public outrage and get the AFL involved somehow.

 

[Leap of Faith]

Gold Coast have bought in some good recruits (eg. Long and Noble) but their list has been gifted to them. A barrage of draft concession, early picks and ongoing Academy gifts has meant their ascension has been inevitable.

Given what they've been gifted they've massively underperformed. Total joke what the NSW and Qld sides have been gifted coz 'we're growing the game'. And the GC has sfa footy culture. Went to a local game there and my goodness was it lame and devoid of atmosphere.

I don't see it. The prisoner's dilemma relies on symmetry and we don't have that. Our BATNA is worse than theirs. If he goes to the PSD he almost certainly still gets to Port, it's just that we get zero compensation.

Yes, Nas and Williams wouldn't want to take that chance, but it's unlikely West Coast or North or whoever are going to take him just for him to be unhappy for a year, disrupt the rest of the playing group, and ask for a trade in 12 months. They get nothing out of that.

Our negotiating position is poor, and our only hope is public outrage and get the AFL involved somehow.

Doubt there'll be any public outrage. Indifference more like. If one of the other teams was in a similar position the amount of f**** I would give would be zero.

 

[ThomasR]

Buku Khamis wants out of Dogs

steak knives for Butters. would definitely get games at Port

 

[stfan]

They will improve if Nas is playing for them and they didn't give up any good players to get him.

Cannot see how that can happen with PA.

They have already traded out their 2025 1st. 2027 1st will be devalued by Tassie. 2026 1st is not enough as we have to factor in that the could finish higher.

Second rounders have little vale due the vast number of FA Comp and FS/Academy/NGA Matching that is happening now.


So in my mind they to give up enough player value to get the deal done. Either to St Kilda direct or two other Clubs to free up some 1st Round picks in 2025/2026.

As Crows currently have Pick 18 (might slide to 14) they are in a similar boat as that pick could blow out to be Pick 30.

 

[SaintsofSteel]

With 3 games to play I think the chances of Nasiah leaving are growing by the day 70/30 gone in my view. Ive now come to terms with losing him and believe if he stays it will be a huge bonus. It will be a terrible time to lose a player of his calibre, but if the club can walk away with a decent trade we will recover.

Given Nas's now midfield capacities he will be tough to replace, but we may be able to actually improve the list as a whole if he requests a trade. Given his connections Im pretty sure if he does leave it will be to Port, so they are going to have give significant player/s to get the trade done.

If he doesnt want to remain in Melbourne because of his family pull, most will understand and respect his decision given we get fairly compensated.

 

[Pardon me]

Assume with news of the Dees issues we’ll be picking the eyes out of their list and making inquiries with anyone that shows even a hint of looking for a new home.
Like the look of Langdon but unsure of his contract status.

 

[Coconut_twirl]

I don’t have any inside information. This is just my belief. History shows us that the far majority of past players who have not signed by August do change clubs.

There a couple of examples that buck this trend, including Dusty and De Goey. Those examples are the exception rather than the rule. Neither of those players had the same situation as Nas. Ie wanting to move to their home state.

Round 21 and there is still no signature. Saints will have to start to plan ahead for trade period and what that looks like.

This is only my opinion and not based on any fact or insider knowledge. I fully suspect that round 24 game against the Giants will be the final time we will see Nas in a Saints jumper.