List Mgmt. 2025 List Management discussion - part 2

[stavro#4]

What's this meant to be? It's not loading

I think it was the max hall interview on 7

Can’t remember now.

 

[SainterinSydney]

Yep there isn't a real clear solution to this trade, as some have suggested it could get ugly



Honestly I've got no idea. I'm worried the club would be far too keen to give away our 26/27 futures if they can. Which I suspect will be decent picks based on Ports current list profile

I don't see a nice way through this without Butters being involved in some way

I mean if Butters wants to leave (hypothetically) isn't it best for your mob to trade him this year for max value? I know you can force a trade via restricted free agency, but seems like would be cleaner this year.

 

[stavro#4]

Yep there isn't a real clear solution to this trade, as some have suggested it could get ugly



Honestly I've got no idea. I'm worried the club would be far too keen to give away our 26/27 futures if they can. Which I suspect will be decent picks based on Ports current list profile

I don't see a nice way through this without Butters being involved in some way

Imagine going after a top 5 player in the comp whilst having not planned for it by building up trade assets and having a stupid fan base that demands any good player is an untouchable.

Magic beans won’t get you very far.

 

[jackag24]

Imagine going after a top 5 player in the comp whilst having not planned for it by building up trade assets and having a stupid fan base that demands any good player is an untouchable.

Magic beans won’t get you very far.

If I recall correctly, Tom Morris said that both Adelaide teams were quite unprepared for this

I believe the general consensus must have been that he would stay at the Saints for the foreseeable future

 

[jackag24]

I mean if Butters wants to leave (hypothetically) isn't it best for your mob to trade him this year for max value? I know you can force a trade via restricted free agency, but seems like would be cleaner this year.

Yeah I would agree. Its like a bandaid, sometimes quicker is better.

I think this trade period will heat up very quickly

 

[ThomasR]

For the sake of discussion

You could say the same about how St Kilda fans are trying to play down Butters value recently too.

Let's not kid ourselves, Butters has been one of the best players in the competition for the past 3 years.

How do you rationalise that he is suddenly worth so much less than Nas?

In my opinion, nas and Butters are now at very comparable trade values. They are both probably top 5-10 players in the comp. So you're really spliting hairs at this point.

The only thing that gives Butters slightly more value is that he's in contract, and he has displayed he can play at this elite level for a few years now

As for the post above that claimed Nas is worth 2x Butters.. I simply have no words

Butters has been doing Butters things. No question he is a top 10 player for mine and maybe higher than that. His value is exactly where it always has been.

People have short memories... at the start of the year I would've grudgingly done Nas + a first rounder for Butters. Nas was obviously going to be a very good player and IMO one of two untouchable players on our list at the time, but if he wanted out and Butters wanted in, a trade like that would've been around the mark, given the runs that each had on the board.

However Nas' last five weeks since moving into the midfield have been unprecedented. I don't know if anyone could have foretold just how dominant a midfielder he would be from day dot. It wasn't even that long ago that Luke Hodge was suggesting he'd rather Bergman.

He has catapulted from an excellent running half-back to genuine best player in the comp discussion, in the space of a month. Butters is a great player but he is not in that conversation.

The list of things Nas can do that Butters cannot is much longer than its opposite.

I do agree Butters is worth more in a trade right now, but only because of their respective contract situations. If both were contracted I think we would be asking for Butters and a little extra.

I am quietly hoping Butters requests a trade to the Dogs this year as the draft capital they will have to stump up is our only real hope of getting anywhere near fair compensation. Who knows, maybe the AFL will tick off Cochrane into the Port NGA if this happens

 

[SainterinSydney]

[/QUOTE]

If I recall correctly, Tom Morris said that both Adelaide teams were quite unprepared for this

I believe the general consensus must have been that he would stay at the Saints for the foreseeable future

And this is why I just can't see him leaving as his manager must realise this. Anyways, we will see what happens.

 

[stavro#4]

If I recall correctly, Tom Morris said that both Adelaide teams were quite unprepared for this

I believe the general consensus must have been that he would stay at the Saints for the foreseeable future

So, you are in here trying to achieve what?

There isn’t a stkilda fan that isn’t across what little you have asset wise and we have all seen the deluded posts that have said Whitlock is a FRP equivalent and Butters or Bergman or Rozee are off the table.

If we say we want 2 x top picks this year and a future first. You don’t have the currency.

You try the draft approach and he ends up at west coast.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

So if we could just speak to Everything we would know. So maybe Tony knows Everything?

Gone

 

[joydivision22]

****ed the reply up but I’m sure you’ll find it lol Port idiot

If you believe what I’ve said is as you ridiculous as you make out, argue one of the points I made instead of saying “it’s ridiculous” I’ll even give you a generous 200 more games from diminutive crash and bash..absolute gun mid in fairness. I’ll have 300 more from Nasiah.

So in your mind,

Butters 100 less games accounts for the gap bw the players and makes them equal. Do you really think Butters is 40% better than Nas?

Or you just evaluate the players on what they’ve already done which of course presents no future value.

Do you think Nas isn’t as sure a thing as Butters?

Maybe you think you should just have him for nothing because your club is too moronic and scared to stand over a good hand against collingwood?

If you can rebut any of what I’ve said with good thought I’ll be shocked.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Yeah, but Doggies only have 10+28, that wouldn't be enough for Butters and on-traded wouldn't be enough for Nas so still a very tough deal to do. Maybe they give you 10+28+2026R1 and you give us 10+26+28+2026R1 (Dogs)+2026R1 (Port) but given both of you would be expected to do well in 2026 with your new acquisitions, can't see those R1 picks being valued super highly.

Could be wrong but pretty sure Port have to use a first round pick this year before even using any for Nas - and they don’t have one.

 

[stfan]

If I recall correctly, Tom Morris said that both Adelaide teams were quite unprepared for this

Well to be fair when this season started no one, absolutely no one, would have rated Nas at the level that most people and Clubs are now rating him.

This has greatly increased both his Trade Cost (Picks and or players), and also the Contract Cost $$$ to secure him.

I believe the general consensus must have been that he would stay at the Saints for the foreseeable future

Given the picks that the Crows (They have shot up the ladder) and PA (They have already traded their 1st) both have, and given that 2027 picks are devalued by Tassie entering, they could only now get the deal done by getting at least one gun to leave. A gun who would have no idea that he was going to have leave.

Butters as a RFA next year is the obvious possibility.

To avoid that pain, as you say it would be better to wait till Nas is a FA.

 

[ThomasR]

Yeah, but Doggies only have 10+28, that wouldn't be enough for Butters and on-traded wouldn't be enough for Nas so still a very tough deal to do. Maybe they give you 10+28+2026R1 and you give us 10+26+28+2026R1 (Dogs)+2026R1 (Port) but given both of you would be expected to do well in 2026 with your new acquisitions, can't see those R1 picks being valued super highly.

If we want a very early pick I think we need to get West Coast involved. They'll have picks 1 and 2 after the Allen compo, and you'd think pick 2 would be on the table for multiple young players / established talent, especially in this draft

The Dogs have WA boys in Busslinger (21yo) and Riley Garcia (24yo) who are both decent young players IMO but on the fringe. Likewise we have Collard and for whatever reason Steele was linked there today. Should be more than enough to get a conversation started.

 

[_Maximus_12]

Been trying to lay low on here the last few days, but honestly if he goes (which I don’t expect) **** him. We get to add a massive haul to a list brimming with talent and we will outperform port for the next decade.

 

[joydivision22]

Butters and ports 2026 F1 is the lowest I could choke down.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

Been trying to lay low on here the last few days, but honestly if he goes (which I don’t expect) **** him. We get to add a massive haul to a list brimming with talent and we will outperform port for the next decade.

It will be ironical if he goes to Port cos this whole affair is certainly tearing us apart

 

[joydivision22]

Butters may not want to come to us but he’ll make double over Hawthorn and WB. Or does he not think he’ll be around much longer going for success now

 

[_Maximus_12]

It will be ironical if he goes to Port cos this whole affair is certainly tearing us apart

But it won’t. Despite nas being the player he is now, he can’t move our needle to top 8, let alone top 4 and our list significantly deeper than ports.

 

[70s sainter]

But it won’t. Despite nas being the player he is now, he can’t move our needle to top 8, let alone top 4 and our list significantly deeper than ports.

He’s improving our team 10-20% by himself so where that needle finishes up depends on the rest of the players.

 

[SaintsofSteel]

There seems to be a lot more discussion or even acceptance that Nas is leaving?

I just wish the season was done and Nas has told us WTF he is doing. FFS Nas & Williams just put us out of our misery and give us an indication of what you are doing...

 

[stfan]

There seems to be a lot more discussion or even acceptance that Nas is leaving?

..

Well we have to fill in our time somehow.

Delay on a decision being made public could be:

1/ If Nas is staying, that Nas and his manager are still deciding on whether to go 2,4 or more years?
Delaying from signing earlier in the year has certainly added many $$$ to his contract. And his recent good form may see his manager in no hurry to sign.


2/ If Nas is going home to Adelaide, which of PA or Crows to choose?

• Port probably would have started the year as favourites, but they are falling apart and now face a rebuild.
• Whereas the Crows look to be entering a Premiership Contending Window. He is likely have more success with the Crows , than if he went to Port. Morseo, if Butters leaves the year after.

 

[Mr Platinum]

Yep there isn't a real clear solution to this trade, as some have suggested it could get ugly



Honestly I've got no idea. I'm worried the club would be far too keen to give away our 26/27 futures if they can. Which I suspect will be decent picks based on Ports current list profile

I don't see a nice way through this without Butters being involved in some way

How will they be decent picks with Tassy coming in? Ain’t going to get it done.

 

[sammm]

In other news … RTB & AB might be about to have a win.

It'll occur just when we are supposed to get Dal's, Montana, Reiwoldt boys

 

[Longmembrey]

Carlton fc are a rabble, so no incentive for TDK-cassettes & tapes to play at his best.
Next year he will fully offload on his talent & become the no.1 ruckman in the league.
At his best, he has what we need, great tap ruckman, strong contested marking & aggression at the contest.
And only 26 y.o, so still has 7 to 8 years to play out.

And, the ruck rules and sub rule are about to chamge massively in his favour. I reckon we have read the tea leaves perfectly on this one

 

[beside the seaside]

I don't know how anyone can expect Tony to know anything when the coach clearly doesn't. It's actually ludicrous.

It's more the reassurance it gives that the deal isnt dead.

I actually found Nasiahs comments after the game fairly encouraging. Manager working it out with the club. I know the despair is hard to escape but I think we're still in this.