List Mgmt. 2025 List Management discussion - part 2

[Sully111]

My son in law whose a Carlton tragic claims sos ruined carlton and he has some valid points.

He’s probably safe as long as Ross is but if this all goes south RTB is finished, some point in 2027 would be my bet.

When Lyon came back, the only appointment that made me uncomfortable was sos.

 

[gringo2011]

This is overblown. If windy goes, it’s because he thinks he’s worth more than what we do.
If NAS goes, it’s because he wants to go home.
Bringing in TDK & Aleer are moves necessary to improve our list and give us a better shot at contending. Losing Nas will bloody hurt, but it’s in no way linked to bringing in talent. In fact, I’d suggest the clubs eagerness to bring in talent is a factor that is helping his cause to stay.
Retaining Windy is important, yes, but he needs to establish himself in one specific role for a prolonged period before he can demand anything more than 2-3 years on the average player salary.

Except Nas has suggested he'd be happy to play here for 2 more years and we are now a fair way off what Port and Adelaide are willing to offer. Also very much could be that he doesn't see success in the next few years here. The idea that he wants home and nothing will change that is cope.

Aleer and TDK are sideways stepping. Losing Nas and Windhager is taking us back 3 to 5 years. Even if we draft back those players it would take 5 years and hope that one might be a similar generational talent.

Anyway I hope we finally make it so hard to enjoy footy next year that I can give up finally. I find the whole club is like living with constant anxiety. There is never anything that eventuates and and every year they find new ways to dispirit the fans and crush our hopes.

 

[botts]

So frustrating other teams players take unders to stay but our want top dollar to stay. We arnt ever gonna get anywhere

 

[Xxxx66]

They are talking about Carlton rebuilds, it could be a goldfield to choose from.

I get a feeling there could be a San Walsh opportunity bubbling away in the background. That might explain the apparent "massive war chest" suddenly not so massive.

 

[_Maximus_12]

Windhager has played every game this year including a 36 disposal ripper in a loss to the swans.

He gets the tagging unglamorous roles but he’s improved a lot this season and is imo a genuine mid. So our locally grown 22 year old with 72 games deserves bare average while we pay a Aleer who can’t play and is two years older with 20 odd games to his name big money on a long contract.

Honesty I can’t figure out if you’re trolling or serious. If we follow your logic and he walks don’t ever complain again about us being a lousy team because you’re cheering on the madness. TDK is a massive mistake and so is Aleer, ones a decent player getting double his worth, the other is a vfl player.

Refer to my post below.

Let me start by saying I rate windy, and I think he’s valuable to our future.

There’s a myriad of differences re Leek vs Windy but I’ll give you a couple because I’m lazy and cbf typing this morning.

Leek plays a totally different role, one of significant need for us moving forward. He is playing for a side that contends, and contains the best defender in the league and some very good supporting talls. He’s very high upside IMO & naturally it costs more to pull players out of their club.

Despite this being his most consistent season at the club, he’s yet to solidify himself as a genuine midfielder and someone who’ll hold down a role in the future. If we look at our current list (as of today) we have Wilson, Pou, Nas & Hugo who are high upside mids at AFL level. Each of which have demonstrated they can find it (be it AFL of VFL level) without playing a run with role. I suspect the club will settle Travaglia in defence if we retain Nas which is why I haven’t mentioned him. We have Steele, Macrae & Sinclair as senior statesmen who will help nurture the above group for the next 2-3 years, alongside the likes of Dow & Hunter Clark.

So the question right now is, does Windhager develop into a ball winning, not a run with mid? I think personally he’s worth 3x$500k and we give him the chance to win a big contract in a few years time but we can’t have everyone of our young kids getting paid big money when we’re a developing side.

And now I’ve typed more than I said I would.

https://www.wheeloratings.com/afl_matc

h_stats_player.html?id=140ca26

Some interesting CBA and Clearance stats that support the narrative he hasn’t locked down his role as a ball winning mid. Low clearance numbers and wildly varying CBA attendance %. Want to guess why? He hasn’t locked down one specific role to make his own.. the one that he’s desperate to play.

He’s had his best year no doubt. Not arguing that at all. Do I want to keep him? Yes. Will I be pissed off if he goes? Yes.

The money for TDK & Aleer isn’t linked with Windy staying or going. It’s linked to what the club perceives his value to be, and what he perceives his value to be.

We don’t know the offer tabled.

 

[Yawkey way]

Maybe. More likely we swap Marshall for Aleer. It will probably be a pick around 30 from Geelong by the time all the levellers are taken out and that's if they want him badly enough. Losing players like Marshall looks absolutely stupid. He plays to win. TDK picks and as chooses when he turns up. We'll regret losing him.

Exactly, honestly you can’t make this stuff up.

The afl has worked us over but we’ve done more damage to ourselves that anyone else ever could. We’re proving once again we’re a poorly run club who can’t stay on message or on track. We can’t get our heads around the fact that actions have consequences, it’s always bad luck or some conspiracy.

I could show you examples of historically poor teams in a variety of sports and it’s always the same story. Poorly run, crazy decisions and trades, short cuts that blow up.

The wheels are starting to fall off at collingwood, they have an ancient list. Just watch, they won’t spend 10 years rebuilding and you can put money on it that they have been planning for a transition.

 

[_Maximus_12]

Except Nas has suggested he'd be happy to play here for 2 more years and we are now a fair way off what Port and Adelaide are willing to offer. Also very much could be that he doesn't see success in the next few years here. The idea that he wants home and nothing will change that is cope.

Says who? Most of the reports the last fortnight are that all offers are around the $2m mark, so please share the part where we are offering well under port and Adelaide?

 

[Yawkey way]

Refer to my post below.

https://www.wheeloratings.com/afl_matc

h_stats_player.html?id=140ca26

Some interesting CBA and Clearance stats that support the narrative he hasn’t locked down his role as a ball winning mid. Low clearance numbers and wildly varying CBA attendance %. Want to guess why? He hasn’t locked down one specific role to make his own.. the one that he’s desperate to play.

He’s had his best year no doubt. Not arguing that at all. Do I want to keep him? Yes. Will I be pissed off if he goes? Yes.

The money for TDK & Aleer isn’t linked with Windy staying or going. It’s linked to what the club perceives his value to be, and what he perceives his value to be.

We don’t know the offer tabled.

A minimum of $750 is back in the kitty the moment you drop the chase for a vfl player.

Windhager hasn’t just had one good game with high numbers this year he’s had several along with tagging he’s a lock. The guy who doesn’t currently have a spot is owens but he’s thankfully signed up.

Everyone rattling off midfielders in front of Windhager are kidding themselves, we have a few promising battlers the only exception is Travaglia who may turn into a genuine mid.

We recruit flawed players like Boxshall who despite some nice attributes will always be hindered by his kicking.

Anyway I see another st Kilda and sos master plan taking shape, I expect it will blow up in our faces but hey what’s new.

 

[OxSaint]

This is overblown. If windy goes, it’s because he thinks he’s worth more than what we do.
If NAS goes, it’s because he wants to go home.
Bringing in TDK & Aleer are moves necessary to improve our list and give us a better shot at contending. Losing Nas will bloody hurt, but it’s in no way linked to bringing in talent. In fact, I’d suggest the clubs eagerness to bring in talent is a factor that is helping his cause to stay.
Retaining Windy is important, yes, but he needs to establish himself in one specific role for a prolonged period before he can demand anything more than 2-3 years on the average player salary.

How dare you make sense on this board. I wanted to keep reading the repetitive doom and gloom comments and SOS bashing based on media speculated contract amounts (which are almost always inflated) and a windy rumour that is quite obviously directly from his manager. No one knows what he was offered to judge its fairness.

 

[gringo2011]

Refer to my post below.

https://www.wheeloratings.com/afl_matc

h_stats_player.html?id=140ca26

Some interesting CBA and Clearance stats that support the narrative he hasn’t locked down his role as a ball winning mid. Low clearance numbers and wildly varying CBA attendance %. Want to guess why? He hasn’t locked down one specific role to make his own.. the one that he’s desperate to play.

He’s had his best year no doubt. Not arguing that at all. Do I want to keep him? Yes. Will I be pissed off if he goes? Yes.

The money for TDK & Aleer isn’t linked with Windy staying or going. It’s linked to what the club perceives his value to be, and what he perceives his value to be.

We don’t know the offer tabled.

So he should go against coaches instructions?

 

[gringo2011]

Exactly, honestly you can’t make this stuff up.

The afl has worked us over but we’ve done more damage to ourselves that anyone else ever could. We’re proving once again we’re a poorly run club who can’t stay on message or on track. We can’t get our heads around the fact that actions have consequences, it’s always bad luck or some conspiracy.

I could show you examples of historically poor teams in a variety of sports and it’s always the same story. Poorly run, crazy decisions and trades, short cuts that blow up.

The wheels are starting to fall off at collingwood, they have an ancient list. Just watch, they won’t spend 10 years rebuilding and you can put money on it that they have been planning for a transition.

Essendon chasing Gresham and McKay smells quite similar.

 

[gringo2011]

Says who? Most of the reports the last fortnight are that all offers are around the $2m mark, so please share the part where we are offering well under port and Adelaide?

I keep reading that we want a long term commitment if we match.

 

[_Maximus_12]

So he should go against coaches instructions?

No he should play his role. Hone his craft on the track and take his chances when given to him. Of which he is yet to do.
His all round numbers are solid. But his clearance work is not there. Yet.

 

[_Maximus_12]

How dare you make sense on this board. I wanted to keep reading the repetitive doom and gloom comments and SOS bashing based on media speculated contract amounts (which are almost always inflated) and a windy rumour that is quite obviously directly from his manager. No one knows what he was offered to judge its fairness.

Gringo knows it’s not enough and he’s worth more though, and it’s sos’ fault

 

[Coconut_twirl]

I can't see a way a deal gets done with Port, I also don't get the allure, they're going to be a bog average footy club for the next few years.

Gets to play with his close friends?

 

[Yawkey way]

Essendon chasing Gresham and McKay smells quite similar.

Exactly gringo, they badly overpaid for both and didn’t need either.

 

[gubby88]

so, according to the same supporters on here....saints have gone backwards. so therefore players haven't been very good, now we want to over pay them because they are upset about getting "unders" for doing bugger all?

okay then....

all I've heard is how bad saints list and development is, but everyone gets the bed if one is "reported" to be insulted??

we have to overpay to bring in players and no elite player wants to come....

make your bloody minds up, are the players any good or not? because the consensus so far is that the only one who is any good is NAS, and he hasn't been proper elite until since the bye....

the bloody hell should the saints over pay for their own players when no other club does?

 

[BucketsandBanger]

Will wait for it to all be confirmed but it can’t be overstated how much of a disaster losing NAS and Windy in one off season would be, both culturally and on field. Sets the rebuild back exponentially. The Windy, NAS and Mitch draft is the turning point in starting to build properly. Losing them just as they start to enter their early peak years is a nightmare. Wonder how Mitch is feeling about his extension now. Let’s see what actually happens but if this goes the way it is looking right now oh boy do we keep finding ways to **** ourselves. Just amazing.

 

[stavro#4]

The rumour is that Windy/Agent are asking for north of $850k a year.

We want to keep him but the difference could be 150-200k in offers.

 

[gubby88]

The rumour is that Windy/Agent are asking for north of $850k a year.

We want to keep him but the different could be 150-200k in offers.

**** me, north of 850????

for what???? what has he done that's even close to getting that coin????

 

[gubby88]

that's like being a third year apprentice and wanting the supervisors coin...absolutely ridiculous if true

 

[BrutThough]

Everyone takes deep breath and calm down. Nothing has happened yet,

 

[stavro#4]

**** me, north of 850????

for what???? what has he done that's even close to getting that coin????

That’s the rumour doing the rounds.

 

[Sully111]

Everyone takes deep breath and calm down. Nothing has happened yet,

Where's the fun in that?

 

[Sully111]

The rumour is that Windy/Agent are asking for north of $850k a year.

We want to keep him but the difference could be 150-200k in offers.

Sounds fair if Aleer is getting 750