List Mgmt. 2025 List Management discussion - part 2

[thekizzler]

You realise Ryan is almost 29, and in his 8-season career has never kicked over 30 goals?

Not once.


Butler and Henry were injured for most of the year.

Butler's goal kicking stats are similar to Ryan's - 172 goals over 151 games, compared to Ryan's 158 goals in 124 games- and they're the same age.

Hall, like Henry, is 23 so you'd expect further improvement.

I literally just said I wasn't sold on Ryan, you peanut lol.

I'm talking about pursuing 30-40 goals in general from whoever in relation to your ridiculous assertion of our small forward stocks.

 

[phantom13]

If Ryan costs **** all in a trade and $500k then meh, i cgaf, get him, dont get him, whatevs.

If were paying him more and he costs a second... i cant say i understand it.

Until it happens it feels pointless debating.

 

[CaptainRisky]

If we're going BTF, I'd like to see Graeme Gellie personally.

Also that bloke who used to do that operatic MIIIGGHTTTTTYYYY SAAAAAIINNTTSSSSS at half time - what happened to him?

The screamer near the animal cage ?

 

[Dard Ball Get]

If King gets fit and lives up to his potential, the $1 million a season will be a bargain based on the contracts now going around. But he has to get fit and on the park.

And, as explained by those across it, it actually allows flexibility with the cap over the medium/long term

 

[Dr Spaceman]

Pressure was put on NASA by JFK to get to the moon by the end of the 60s and it happened in 1969 against all odds.

Careful mate, a lot of these negative campaigners will also think the moon landing didn't happen

Well the moon landing did happen as there are photos to show it. However a recent close inspection of these photos suggest Neil Armstrong may not have been the first human to step foot on the moon.

Really, is there any Nas CAN’T do?

 

[PJays]

The fact you’re happy to lump all “small forwards” together says enough.
Imagine saying all mids are the same.

Makes no sense and is not worth discussing.

What does Liam Ryan bring that we don't already have from Higgins, Hall, healthy and more consistent Henry, healthy Butler?

And our mid-sized forwards Owens, healthy and hopefully improving Phillipou?

I'm waiting for someone to actually explain this.

And if the answer is "X, Y, and Z'", my follow up question will be- is it worth committing 4 years to obtain these things? Is it worth gambling on sustained performance from a 29, 30, 31, 32 year old when we have other guys in the early stages of their careers?

 

[CaptainRisky]

I'm happy for Marshall to be traded if he wants as long as we get a good deal. SDK would be juicy as.

My Sauce tells me Marshall is not going, as boy wonder #SainterinSydney says , just relax

 

[Sab22]

A fit + inform Max King would be our most important player. I’m very confident he will have 60+ goals season next year. Our forward line has struggled the past 2 years without his presence. Even if he was out of form or kicking issues, he would make it so much easier for our smalls.

Max will be worth his contract. When he hits form, it’s going to look like the cheapest contract in the game.

Nas to Max will be iconic like Winmar to Plugger.

How bout' that Max King contract ?

 

[thekizzler]

Well the moon landing did happen as there are photos to show it. However a recent close inspection of these photos suggest Neil Armstrong may not have been the first human to step foot on the moon.

Really, is there any Nas CAN’T do?

Your talents are wasted on this forum, great man.

 

[stavro#4]

And, as explained by those across it, it actually allows flexibility with the cap over the medium/long term

Mitch Cleary had abit of praise for the deal this morning.

Said we have probably given it a nice front load and back end we might have 500k seasons on our books when plenty of others need big money

 

[Remboy]

I miss when this board was sweating balls over Nas, and now everyone is back to arguing with each other

When are we going to start asking if he will re-sign in two years? I mean, not many players wait this long and don’t leave. I’m starting to get nervous already lol.

 

[stavro#4]

What does Liam Ryan bring that we don't already have from Higgins, Hall, healthy and more consistent Henry, healthy Butler?

And our mid-sized forwards Owens, healthy and hopefully improving Phillipou?

I'm waiting for someone to actually explain this.

And if the answer is "X, Y, and Z'", my follow up question will be- is it worth committing 4 years to obtain these things? Is it worth gambling on sustained performance from a 29, 30, 31, 32 year old when we have other guys in the early stages of their careers?

 

[Dard Ball Get]

Mitch Cleary had abit of praise for the deal this morning.

Said we have probably given it a nice front load and back end we might have 500k seasons on our books when plenty of others need big money

Yep, funny that

 

[PJays]

If Ryan costs **** all in a trade and $500k then meh, i cgaf, get him, dont get him, whatevs.

If were paying him more and he costs a second... i cant say i understand it.

Until it happens it feels pointless debating.

I doubt it'll be $500k. It'll be more.

Even if it is, that's decent money.

He'll be almost 33 during the final season of the deal, and he hasn't even been top 10 B&F's recently on a team who is historically abysmal.

I don't understand offering 4 years- unless it's a bargain basement contract. Like $300k - $350k a year.

 

[stavro#4]

I doubt it'll be $500k. It'll be more.

Even if it is, that's decent money.

He'll be almost 33 during the final season of the deal, and he hasn't even been top 10 B&F's recently on a team who is historically abysmal.

I don't understand offering 4 years- unless it's a bargain basement contract. Like $300k - $350k a year.

The average AFL salary in 2025 is expected to be around $519,000

So by the end of that deal it will be comfortably below league average.

 

[PJays]

OK, but he's taken 87 contested marks in 124 games. Hardly ground-breaking stuff in terms of consistent output.

Phillipou has a great set of hands in the half-forward line.

 

[kernelT]

The screamer near the animal cage ?

Yeah, he was out at waverley too from memory.

I loved it as a kid.

 

[Tommy Wigs]

Not at all.

If you've been following this thread I've been arguing against TDK all year.

It's precisely because we've signed Nas that it becomes even more crucial to get everything else right.

St Kilda's future is looking bright for the next 2 years - but we need to consider the next 5, 6 years to maximise the chances of keeping him into another deal. We want to put ourselves in a position to utilize him effectively over his prime, and sell a future where he'll want to play his prime at Moorabbin.

Signing a nearly 29-year-old small forward for 4 years when it's already one of the most clogged positions on our list, and offering a backman $900k a year when he's played 22 games, while offering 2 years and unders to one of your own young mids who had 36 disposals and 3 coaches votes last week, are simply not smart moves.

Yeah, I agree with the sentiment. I have 2019 vibes and stacking up on mature imports. It may work out and I’ll definitely be cheering. I was able to get by with the TDK price tag given he’s an FA. I’m not sure I’ll ever get on board with Aleer’s offer and whatever trade cost is attached. I just hope we don’t disrupt a more patient build for a couple of fixes. Because this has been a cyclical theme here.

 

[Yawkey way]

As a collective our list are poor marks and are constantly out marked in contests, excluding a couple of individuals.

It’s killing us but king, Howard and poo will help with that.

 

[Yawkey way]

My Sauce tells me Marshall is not going, as boy wonder #SainterinSydney says , just relax


View attachment 2400885

I really hope he stays.

 

[PJays]

Yeah, I agree with the sentiment. I have 2019 vibes and stacking up on mature imports. It may work out and I’ll definitely be cheering. I was able to get by with the TDK price tag given he’s an FA. I’m not sure I’ll ever get on board with Aleer’s offer and whatever trade cost is attached. I just hope we don’t disrupt a more patient build for a couple of fixes. Because this has been a cyclical theme here.

Yep, I've been thinking this feels like another 2020 sugar hit incoming in 2026. The Ryan signing has that vibe.

We need to be making moves that build a foundation for sustained success over 5-10 years.

 

[The Punter]

Cash is not the issue with Ryan for me. It's opportunity. What happens if he's not getting a game and thinks he should?

 

[Half Back Pocket]

There's more money than you think.

View attachment 2400850

View attachment 2400851


Total salary cap for next year (including ASA) is $19,560,498. We can spend up to 105% of that which is $20,538,523.

Last year we paid 95% of a much lower number, in total $16,202,749.

This year 95% of a lower number, in total $18,077,837.

So compared to last year, there's basically $4.35m extra to spend next year; compared to this year $2.46m extra.


Average player salary next year will be about $500k. If you have Nas on $2m, that means you need about 4 new draftees on $150k to cancel out his wage.

We have a bunch of youngish players on below or well below average: Barrat, Boxshall, Dodson, Said, Hastie, Garcia, Schoenmaker, Collard, Keeler, Caminiti, Carroll, Heath, Byrnes, Boyd, Dow, etc. And a few older players on smaller and smaller contracts: Webster, Hill, Wood, Jones, Howard, Butler.

In fact, we benefit because we don't have many in the middle band. Those are the guys - on $600k or $700k or $800k - who take up most of the cap. We don't have many there which is what has made it hard for us to hit the cap floor, and makes it relatively easy for us to make this work.


Look, I'm sure there's some maths for SOS to do here. We probably lose guys like Butler, Webster, Jones, Howard a little before their time. Maybe Marshall or Steele go too. But realistically they weren't part of the next serious Saints team anyway.

I don't think it's as bad as you think it is.

We need to Pin this to the top of the page

 

[phantom13]

I doubt it'll be $500k. It'll be more.

Even if it is, that's decent money.

He'll be almost 33 during the final season of the deal, and he hasn't even been top 10 B&F's recently on a team who is historically abysmal.

I don't understand offering 4 years- unless it's a bargain basement contract. Like $300k - $350k a year.

To me the difference 400-600 is **** all so i dont really care, if its getting north of 600 for a 4 year deal it seems a worry.

If hes a third rounder or less at somewhere in that range, meh i CGAF, stuff gets reported at this point of the year as fact, remember that this time two weeks ago NAS was GONE.

Until it happens i dont care and i suspect his trade well be one of the very last to get done, if it happens in the final minutes then argue the toss, until then ill keep my powder dry.

 

[thekizzler]

What does Liam Ryan bring that we don't already have from Higgins, Hall, healthy and more consistent Henry, healthy Butler?

And our mid-sized forwards Owens, healthy and hopefully improving Phillipou?

I'm waiting for someone to actually explain this.

And if the answer is "X, Y, and Z'", my follow up question will be- is it worth committing 4 years to obtain these things? Is it worth gambling on sustained performance from a 29, 30, 31, 32 year old when we have other guys in the early stages of their careers?

phantom13 effectively said all that needed to be said.

Of the players you mentioned, Hall and Henry are not small forwards. They are playing a high-half forward role. I'm not sure you watch St Kilda play. Ryan plays closer to goal like Higgins.

As I said, I'm not sold on him but if it's a cheap deal - why not.

There are other factors as well such as the club wanting to be the no.1 indigenous club - it might even help keep Nas, I don't know.

Ryan's output could lift hugely in a better forward line - he is at his peak and been playing in an abortion of a forward line.

This is not a hill to die on - but your types always need a hill to die on.