List Mgmt. 2025 List Management discussion - part 2

[Dard Ball Get]

What does Liam Ryan bring that we don't already have from Higgins, Hall, healthy and more consistent Henry, healthy Butler?

And our mid-sized forwards Owens, healthy and hopefully improving Phillipou?

I'm waiting for someone to actually explain this.

And if the answer is "X, Y, and Z'", my follow up question will be- is it worth committing 4 years to obtain these things? Is it worth gambling on sustained performance from a 29, 30, 31, 32 year old when we have other guys in the early stages of their careers?

Hall, Henry and Butler are not like-for-like comparisons to Ryan.

Neither is Higgins but he is perhaps the only truly established small we have.

Ross has mentioned he’d like Piggins to roll through midfield, it is abundantly clear Hall is already doing so.

Henry I rate but let’s hope his injury cloud clears, he still doesn’t/wouldn’t play the Ryan role.

It was reported only yesterday night that it would be a 3 year contract with triggers for a 4th for Ryan.

What would he bring? Aerial threat, big time/game/moments player (see 2018 GF). Would also be a great guide dog for Lance as he develops.

Obviously the money and trade cost would need to make sense, but as much as many want to hang, draw and quarter the list management team, I haven’t seen them put too much of a foot wrong lately. Got the deals done they’ve wanted and have pulled out of deals they didn’t like which may not have happened previously.

Think we should remind ourselves not too long ago we were trying to hype ourselves up over offseason acquisitions of Logan Austin, Jarrod Leinert and Rubbertits Kent.

Forgive me if I don’t join the unwarranted death spiral.

 

[akaifu]

There's more money than you think.

View attachment 2400850

View attachment 2400851


Total salary cap for next year (including ASA) is $19,560,498. We can spend up to 105% of that which is $20,538,523.

Last year we paid 95% of a much lower number, in total $16,202,749.

This year 95% of a lower number, in total $18,077,837.

So compared to last year, there's basically $4.35m extra to spend next year; compared to this year $2.46m extra.


Average player salary next year will be about $500k. If you have Nas on $2m, that means you need about 4 new draftees on $150k to cancel out his wage.

We have a bunch of youngish players on below or well below average: Barrat, Boxshall, Dodson, Said, Hastie, Garcia, Schoenmaker, Collard, Keeler, Caminiti, Carroll, Heath, Byrnes, Boyd, Dow, etc. And a few older players on smaller and smaller contracts: Webster, Hill, Wood, Jones, Howard, Butler.

In fact, we benefit because we don't have many in the middle band. Those are the guys - on $600k or $700k or $800k - who take up most of the cap. We don't have many there which is what has made it hard for us to hit the cap floor, and makes it relatively easy for us to make this work.


Look, I'm sure there's some maths for SOS to do here. We probably lose guys like Butler, Webster, Jones, Howard a little before their time. Maybe Marshall or Steele go too. But realistically they weren't part of the next serious Saints team anyway.

I don't think it's as bad as you think it is.

I'm gonna make this my BigFooty signature

 

[CaptainRisky]

Yeah, he was out at waverley too from memory.

I loved it as a kid.

I think i saw him at marvel in the early years , boy he used to get them going at Moorabbin , always had a can in his hand from Memory

 

[kernelT]

I'm gonna make this my BigFooty signature

Huge if true.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

Nas to Max will be iconic like Winmar to Plugger.

A preview of coming attractions

 

[CaptainRisky]

Hall, Henry and Butler are not like-for-like comparisons to Ryan.

Neither is Higgins but he is perhaps the only truly established small we have.

Ross has mentioned he’d like Piggins to roll through midfield, it is abundantly clear Hall is already doing so.

Henry I rate but let’s hope his injury cloud clears, he still doesn’t/wouldn’t play the Ryan role.

It was reported only yesterday night that it would be a 3 year contract with triggers for a 4th for Ryan.

What would he bring? Aerial threat, big time/game/moments player (see 2018 GF). Would also be a great guide dog for Lance as he develops.

Obviously the money and trade cost would need to make sense, but as much as many want to hang, draw and quarter the list management team, I haven’t seen them put too much of a foot wrong lately. Got the deals done that want and have pulled out of deals they didn’t like which may not have happened previously.

Think we should remind ourselves not too long ago we were trying to hype ourselves up over offseason acquisitions of Logan Austin, Jarrod Leinert and Rubbertits Kent.

Forgive me if I don’t join the unwarranted death spiral.

That's what i was saying to a few mates , its better than 4 years locked in , 4th year based on games played I'm guessing ?

 

[akaifu]

Huge if true.

Someone will find a way to argue about it

 

[Dard Ball Get]

That's what i was saying to a few mates , its better than 4 years locked in , 4th year based on games played I'm guessing ?

Yeah you would think so, has struggled to play full seasons so that would make sense.

Personally, I’d like to see a screamer caveat included too

 

[PJays]

To me the difference 400-600 is **** all so i dont really care, if its getting north of 600 for a 4 year deal it seems a worry.

If hes a third rounder or less at somewhere in that range, meh i CGAF, stuff gets reported at this point of the year as fact, remember that this time two weeks ago NAS was GONE.

Until it happens i dont care and i suspect his trade well be one of the very last to get done, if it happens in the final minutes then argue the toss, until then ill keep my powder dry.

I'm opposed to it but as I said, could be convinced if it's a cheap deal.

All signs suggest otherwise. Professional athletes don't generally switch clubs - and extend their current deals a year early - unless they're getting good coin. St Kilda's recent history suggests they make generous offers.

Ultimately though none of us knows.

I much prefer having these debates about American sports- at least everyone knows what they're talking about and can make an assessment of the value of the player vs their contract.

 

[phantom13]

I'm opposed to it but as I said, could be convinced if it's a cheap deal.

All signs suggest otherwise. Professional athletes don't generally switch clubs - and extend their current deals a year early - unless they're getting good coin.

Ultimately though none of us knows.

I much prefer having these debates about American sports- at least everyone knows what they're talking about and can make an assessment of the value of the player vs their contract.

Isnt the rumor he has one year left and the Eagles are offering him a one year extension (meaning two years total).

He might be accepting less money from us for the extra year and backing himself to hit the games trigger for a fourth.

Makes sense to me. Generally toward the back end of a career a player will cop less cash for more surety

 

[aidansbonor]

Windy to Xander Mcguire talking about Nas

“It’s great to have him stay, I’m moreso just happy for him, and hopefully all my stuff gets sorted out soon,” he said.


Not stressing about Windy at all

 

[Sully111]

I'm opposed to it but as I said, could be convinced if it's a cheap deal.

All signs suggest otherwise. Professional athletes don't generally switch clubs - and extend their current deals a year early - unless they're getting good coin.

Ultimately though none of us knows.

I much prefer having these debates about American sports- at least everyone knows what they're talking about and can make an assessment of the value of the player vs their contract.

You realise we're no longer on the same path we were before, right?

Things have changed.

Club is clearly trying to get things rolling.

 

[PJays]

There's more money than you think.

View attachment 2400850

View attachment 2400851


Total salary cap for next year (including ASA) is $19,560,498. We can spend up to 105% of that which is $20,538,523.

Last year we paid 95% of a much lower number, in total $16,202,749.

This year 95% of a lower number, in total $18,077,837.

So compared to last year, there's basically $4.35m extra to spend next year; compared to this year $2.46m extra.


Average player salary next year will be about $500k. If you have Nas on $2m, that means you need about 4 new draftees on $150k to cancel out his wage.

We have a bunch of youngish players on below or well below average: Barrat, Boxshall, Dodson, Said, Hastie, Garcia, Schoenmaker, Collard, Keeler, Caminiti, Carroll, Heath, Byrnes, Boyd, Dow, etc. And a few older players on smaller and smaller contracts: Webster, Hill, Wood, Jones, Howard, Butler.

In fact, we benefit because we don't have many in the middle band. Those are the guys - on $600k or $700k or $800k - who take up most of the cap. We don't have many there which is what has made it hard for us to hit the cap floor, and makes it relatively easy for us to make this work.


Look, I'm sure there's some maths for SOS to do here. We probably lose guys like Butler, Webster, Jones, Howard a little before their time. Maybe Marshall or Steele go too. But realistically they weren't part of the next serious Saints team anyway.

I don't think it's as bad as you think it is.

Great post

I posted some numbers here a few months ago, calculating the excess St Kilda would have to spend across 2026 - 2029 based on going 5% under from 2022 - 2025 (assuming they did). It's a 4 year carry forward provision.

My issue is that if things go well, we'll likely be in a position like Carlton (or Collingwood a few years ago) by 2028, 2029, 2030. We have Nas (and let's assume TDK), and King on big contracts. And let's hope Nas stays from 2028 obviously. If Tauru, Hall, Phillipou become the players we hope they will, there will be a tipping point eventually.

But again, this depends how much the cap jumps from 2028.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

If we're going BTF, I'd like to see Graeme Gellie personally.

Also that bloke who used to do that operatic MIIIGGHTTTTTYYYY SAAAAAIINNTTSSSSS at half time - what happened to him?

The screamer near the animal cage ?

Yeah, he was out at waverley too from memory.

I loved it as a kid.

I think i saw him at marvel in the early years , boy he used to get them going at Moorabbin , always had a can in his hand from Memory

The bloke at the 1:43 mark?

 

[stavro#4]

OK, but he's taken 87 contested marks in 124 games. Hardly ground-breaking stuff in terms of consistent output.

Phillipou has a great set of hands in the half-forward line.

Now say it with me.


Phillipou = Big (190cm)

Ryan = Small (179cm)

We have covered already the difference between Ryan Higgins Henry Butler Hall.

Only Ryan is good overhead head or has an elite leap from that lot.

 

[CaptainRisky]

The bloke at the 1:43 mark?

Look who was in that at 2.05

 

[stavro#4]

Great post

I posted some numbers here a few months ago, calculating the excess St Kilda would have to spend across 2026 - 2029 based on going 5% under from 2022 - 2025 (assuming they did). It's a 4 year carry forward provision.

My issue is that if things go well, we'll likely be in a position like Carlton (or Collingwood a few years ago) by 2028, 2029, 2030. We have Nas (and let's assume TDK), and King on big contracts. And let's hope Nas stays from 2028 obviously. If Tauru, Hall, Phillipou become the players we hope they will, there will be a tipping point eventually.

But again, this depends how much the cap jumps from 2028.

We also have every senior player + others and Nas OOC at the end of 2027

 

[Falchoon]

Does Windy really want to go to Norf and compete with their 17 first round midfielders?

and be guaranteed to be playing tagger

 

[Dard Ball Get]

The legendary media sharer in Jayman15 posted this in the media thread and is good listening re: Nas money and our cap.

Hated Phil Davis

1

Phil Davis

Age

35

Ht

197cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.0

3star

K

7.6

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

5.2

5star

T

1.7

4star

MG

55.5

1star

D

8.5

2star

K

4.4

2star

HB

4.1

3star

M

3.4

3star

T

1.3

2star

MG

55.5

1star

D

14.0

4star

K

8.0

3star

HB

6.0

4star

M

5.8

5star

T

1.4

4star

as a player but he’s very good on the mic the long haired yahoo

 

[Sully111]

Is Ryan a good field kick?

 

[Mat Mann]

Someone will find a way to argue about it

No they won’t !!!!! Crazy stuff

 

[PJays]

Now say it with me.


Phillipou = Big (190cm)

Ryan = Small (179cm)

We have covered already the difference between Ryan Higgins Henry Butler Hall.

Only Ryan is good overhead head or has an elite leap from that lot.

"Big" and "small" is simplistic

Footy, like other sports, has become more position-less in recent years and it's more about skillsets and having complimentary players who cover various bases cumulatively.

Someone posted about Ryan's marking ability, and I pointed out that Phillipou, although he unfortunately couldn't get his body right this year, is an exciting young half-forward with the ability to mark overhead.

Where does Ryan fit? Who's our starting 6 forwards in your eyes, round 1 2026?

Higgins and King pick themselves if fit...then who?

 

[Mr Platinum]

If King gets fit and lives up to his potential, the $1 million a season will be a bargain based on the contracts now going around. But he has to get fit and on the park.

He’s nowhere near a million a season.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

"Big" and "small" is simplistic

Footy, like other sports, has become more position-less in recent years and it's more about skillsets and having complimentary players who cover various bases cumulatively.

Someone posted about Ryan's marking ability, and I pointed out that Phillipou, although he unfortunately couldn't get his body right this year, is an exciting young half-forward with the ability to mark overhead.

Where does Ryan fit? Who's our starting 6 forwards in your eyes, round 1 2026?

Higgins and King pick themselves if fit...then who?

Pou will be a mid, not a half forward long term

 

[phantom13]

There's more money than you think.

View attachment 2400850

View attachment 2400851


Total salary cap for next year (including ASA) is $19,560,498. We can spend up to 105% of that which is $20,538,523.

Last year we paid 95% of a much lower number, in total $16,202,749.

This year 95% of a lower number, in total $18,077,837.

So compared to last year, there's basically $4.35m extra to spend next year; compared to this year $2.46m extra.


Average player salary next year will be about $500k. If you have Nas on $2m, that means you need about 4 new draftees on $150k to cancel out his wage.

We have a bunch of youngish players on below or well below average: Barrat, Boxshall, Dodson, Said, Hastie, Garcia, Schoenmaker, Collard, Keeler, Caminiti, Carroll, Heath, Byrnes, Boyd, Dow, etc. And a few older players on smaller and smaller contracts: Webster, Hill, Wood, Jones, Howard, Butler.

In fact, we benefit because we don't have many in the middle band. Those are the guys - on $600k or $700k or $800k - who take up most of the cap. We don't have many there which is what has made it hard for us to hit the cap floor, and makes it relatively easy for us to make this work.


Look, I'm sure there's some maths for SOS to do here. We probably lose guys like Butler, Webster, Jones, Howard a little before their time. Maybe Marshall or Steele go too. But realistically they weren't part of the next serious Saints team anyway.

I don't think it's as bad as you think it is.

Good post Berg (if i was an arseh*le id note that this still means Rowell, TDK and NAS wouldnt fit but im not so i wont).

Whats the substitute player limit? Ive never seen that before?