List Mgmt. 2025 List Management discussion - part 2

[gringo2011]

You realise Ryan is almost 29, and in his 8-season career has never kicked over 30 goals?

Not once.


Butler and Henry were injured for most of the year.

Butler's goal kicking stats are similar to Ryan's - 172 goals over 151 games, compared to Ryan's 158 goals in 124 games- and they're the same age.

Hall, like Henry, is 23 so you'd expect further improvement.

Butler is more of a traditional small pressure forward. Ryan more of a hybrid who can do a bit of everything. It’s like half Hall and half Butler with some high flying thrown in.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

You positive posters dump shit on other posters and players, negatives dump shit on staff and club. We all get our anxiety out in different ways. Most of you positive ****ers just need another decade of disappointment and you’ll be where we are.

Hopefully we’ll have a good patch to pump our tyres back up in between. Then we can die and leave you youthful positives to move in to fill the burnt out negatives role. Cycle of life shit.

Ah yes, the ol binary "You vs Us" shite.
Funnily enough, the majority of the name calling and aggression has been from "your side".
Calling out inaccuracies is not "dumping shit" either, as much as that is a convenient stance to take for the victims among us

 

[billings2paddy]

I don’t care what we do or how we do it. But we desperately need a key forward via trade or draft. Im aware of Heath, Dodson, Keeler but none of them are pure key position forward. Someone we can develop in the 2nds for the future or to help with structural issues up front when Ming is down.

Dodson looks a natural forward

 

[Dard Ball Get]

Actually you’ll probably find that negativity has been proven right more than wrong over the last 15 years. Hopefully that’s all in the past now. It does actually feel like Nas has been a refresh of the momentum and a really nice shove into a new era.

I have zero interest in the past, nobody involved in LM is still here so it is completely irrelevant. If you want to hang your hat on a random 15 year old shot in the dark be my guest

 

[gringo2011]

What does Liam Ryan bring that we don't already have from Higgins, Hall, healthy and more consistent Henry, healthy Butler?

And our mid-sized forwards Owens, healthy and hopefully improving Phillipou?

I'm waiting for someone to actually explain this.

And if the answer is "X, Y, and Z'", my follow up question will be- is it worth committing 4 years to obtain these things? Is it worth gambling on sustained performance from a 29, 30, 31, 32 year old when we have other guys in the early stages of their careers?

I reckon fans will love him if he comes. He’s a momentum shifter in games. His ability to score against the flow is elite.

 

[TheNewEnsign]

If TDK doesn't work out for us there'll still be a team out there that will give at least a first round draft pick for him in two years time.
That's what we're paying the money for. A good player that has intrinsic value in the draft/trade system. That cost nothing to us in the draft/trade system.
TDK isn't a big risk at all.
He'll always be worth more than what we gave up.

I was going to post almost exactly this on the main board St Kilda sledge thread but then I thought, what's the point.

Exactly as you say, possible injuries aside someone like TDK has intrinsic value and even if we have to pay some cap to move him on it's fine. Quite funny all the media noise about this, ignoring Collingwood did a similar (but lower priced) thing with Grundy and managed to get a flag.

 

[_Maximus_12]

If you’re making a conscious decision to be negative you’ve got more issues than the opposing opinions on this board

 

[gringo2011]

I have zero interest in the past, nobody involved in LM is still here so it is completely irrelevant. If you want to hang your hat on a random 15 year old shot in the dark be my guest

If you don’t learn from mistakes you set yourself up for more. It wasn’t just list management anyway. We have built a pro footy department since Lyon came back. We really had nothing before and didn’t even know how to structure one. As I keep saying, it doesn’t guarantee success but it gives you a run in the race at least.

 

[CaptainRisky]

I agree with your estimate.

Problem is, it's too much. Given this contract rolls into 2028 (at least). That'll still be above average salary by then.

I know I'm a broken record but why are we offering this guy 4 years (even if the 4th is games triggered) but Windhager only 2?!?


I'd rather have Henry, or Collard, or some youngster getting elite development opportunity in the best 22 rather than VFL.

Rather than Ryan who might successfully play a role for 3, 4 years then be done.

I know the end is coming - in the medium term- for Sinclair, Wood, Hill etc- but I'd still rather St Kilda focus on youth development and a long-term timeframe. Like we did this year.

Is Henry going to get back to his best and when i say best i mean he has really only played one really good game , the rest were average at best even before the injury and i don't like beating a dead horse but as much as some want to pump Lance up , its really up to him if he wants to be a great footballer or just another bloke who couldn't be buggered.
Ryan might be a good fill in for a year or so until we see if Collard is going to make the grade or not as you wouldn't want to be putting all your eggs in the Collard bucket at this stage

 

[kernelT]

Compare and contrast with Hanners pls.

In excruciating detail.

Well it all started when Simon Letchers was knobbing the help at head office…

 

[Dard Ball Get]

If you don’t learn from mistakes you set yourself up for more. It wasn’t just list management anyway. We have built a pro footy department since Lyon came back. We really had nothing before and didn’t even know how to structure one. As I keep saying, it doesn’t guarantee success but it gives you a run in the race at least.

So sounds like we're learning

 

[moirae42]

Keeler needs to get significantly fitter.

 

[gringo2011]

If you’re making a conscious decision to be negative you’ve got more issues than the opposing opinions on this board

Or is it a label thrown at anyone who doesn’t go with the forum consensus?

 

[stavro#4]

Keeler needs to get significantly fitter.

Stronger

 

[gringo2011]

So sounds like we're learning

We are. No reason to not try to work out what could be improved. The forum would be very quiet if it was just one point of view repeated.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

We are. No reason to not try to work out what could be improved. The forum would be very quiet if it was just one point of view repeated.

I'm not after one point of view, never have been

 

[Joffaboy]

Hall, Henry and Butler are not like-for-like comparisons to Ryan.

Neither is Higgins but he is perhaps the only truly established small we have.

Ross has mentioned he’d like Piggins to roll through midfield, it is abundantly clear Hall is already doing so.

Henry I rate but let’s hope his injury cloud clears, he still doesn’t/wouldn’t play the Ryan role.

It was reported only yesterday night that it would be a 3 year contract with triggers for a 4th for Ryan.

What would he bring? Aerial threat, big time/game/moments player (see 2018 GF). Would also be a great guide dog for Lance as he develops.

Obviously the money and trade cost would need to make sense, but as much as many want to hang, draw and quarter the list management team, I haven’t seen them put too much of a foot wrong lately. Got the deals done they’ve wanted and have pulled out of deals they didn’t like which may not have happened previously.

Think we should remind ourselves not too long ago we were trying to hype ourselves up over offseason acquisitions of Logan Austin, Jarrod Leinert and Rubbertits Kent.

Forgive me if I don’t join the unwarranted death spiral.

You would think after the negative shit towards SoS and list management last week was profoundly and embarrassingly found to be totally wrong, these negative clowns would have learnt to STFU about stuff they have no idea on.
My first post after the NAZ news I said I wouldn't bring the receipts or brag ( I demanded after the Melbourne game we offer 2 mill over 2 to retain him and was howled down, exactly what SoS did), these posts by some on Ryan is making me sorely tempted to renege on that promise.
As phantom said let it play out, learn a lesson for once in your f.arking life.

 

[Makeshift Park]

Zane Duursma + P20+21 for Windy Wilson and Wilkie

Surely that takes the cake

Ok ok, you drive a hard bargain.

We'll add Will Phillips too.

 

[Remboy]

Zane Duursma + P20+21 for Windy Wilson and Wilkie

Surely that takes the cake

Now it’s Duursma and future first for the three W’s. I’d like to see SOS’s reaction to that one.

 

[stfan]

Free was meant to be hyperbolic - I meant very cheap

But in the scenario he goes beyond pick 36, we only need a pick to match him, whether its pick 37 or pick 364

Thank you. I must have read the wrong definition.

I thought it was "The new DVI (Draft Value Index) system will see points attached to only the first 54 picks, with a reduced 10% discount for matching bids, down from the previous 20%."
and that the old 197 point discount for later matches had gone.


So is there a clause that Clubs can just match from 36 with as you say so point cost?

EDIT. Googling that gets:

The AFL has removed the previous rule that prevented NGA clubs from matching bids within the top 40 selections of the draft. This means NGA clubs can now match bids at any point in the draft, including pick 37.

 

[_Maximus_12]

Or is it a label thrown at anyone who doesn’t go with the forum consensus?

I’d say this board is made up of a handful of pessimists posters, a majority of balanced posters and an absolute minority of airhead optimists.

 

[SainterinSydney]

Now it’s Duursma and future first for the three W’s. I’d like to see SOS’s reaction to that one.

Would they also like our first born children?

 

[stavro#4]

Prepping for next year

 

[Dard Ball Get]

You would think after the negative shit towards SoS and list management last week was profoundly and embarrassingly found to be totally wrong, these negative clowns would have learnt to STFU about stuff they have no idea on.
My first post after the NAZ news I said I wouldn't bring the receipts or brag ( I demanded after the Melbourne game we offer 2 mill over 2 to retain him and was howled down, exactly what SoS did), these posts by some on Ryan is making me sorely tempted to renege on that promise.
As phantom said let it play out, learn a lesson for once in your f.arking life.

I myself am tempted to continue to scatter receipts along the way, such is my petulant, vindictive nature
Thousands of ridiculous posts, make them watch

 

[gringo2011]

Because we have Nas freakin Messiah kicking it to MING!!

You got Max Hall kicking it to Ming.

You got Sinclair kicking it to Ming.

You got Hill kicking it to Ming.

I just don’t want Byrnes anywhere near it though.

Byrnes is bizarrely a very good kick when going inside 50. Everywhere else not so much.