List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
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[dudeintheswamp]

Assume Buckley silently pulled out.

Reckon soon enough he has the choice of Carlton and Essendon , with the Devils still a possibility.

 

[ronnysnodgrass]

There was a good 5 min where my Pea Brain thought they had appointed DAVID King as coach.

 

[gringo2011]

Yes, I agree that similar roles can be compared

But you just said that Flanders is more contested - where is the evidence for that?

As I said, 34% of Flanders' possessions were contested in that 6-week full time mids period

Conversely, Mackenzie played 40%+ CBAs in rounds 1,3,5,6,7,10. Over this period, 64% of his possessions were contested

So no, Flanders is not more contested than Mackenzie. He might rack up more of the ball, but there's another dimension that can be explored that supports Kane Cornes' 'non-damaging' argument

You are bending stats to suit your argument again. CMac had 4 games of 20 possessions or above. He's had 5 games of over 10 contested possession. His stats are skewed by some games where he got 10 CPs and only 3 uncontested.

Flanders last year had 8 games over 10 contested possessions including a couple over 15. He played 20 games where he had over 25 possessions including a couple over 40. Even this year Flanders has had 4 games with over 10 CPs.

If you use percentages of **** all touches it sounds like he's peak Dangerfield. Bizarre that you suggest everyone else puts up misleading stats while doing exactly that.

 

[sauce_head]

Reckon soon enough he has the choice of Carlton and Essendon , with the Devils still a possibility.

Gotta go Tassie now surely?

 

[gringo2011]

They want Windy so are seemingly seeking to improve their midfield. With Viney cooked, Trac uninterested and Oliver half the player he use to be, someone Flanders age would be a welcome addition to their midfield or to their half back line.

Funny enough Flanders had the Petracca player comparison in his draft year.

 

[chris_h_11]

Gotta go Tassie now surely?

Tassie will get Longmire.....

 

[Minga]

Plot twist

Trac

Ooooo I’m so scared, isn’t that guy like 77 years old

good to see the demons have replaced one coke fiend for another

 

[gringo2011]

Complements Windsor, Langford, Lindsay really well as a midfield group imo

Only Langford looks like a potential bullocking inside type. If Flanders is a soft uncontested type like you suggest it looks a bit of a weird move. They'd be better with that bull CMac.

 

[akaifu]

You are bending stats to suit your argument again. CMac had 4 games of 20 possessions or above. He's had 5 games of over 10 contested possession. His stats are skewed by some games where he got 10 CPs and only 3 uncontested.

Flanders last year had 8 games over 10 contested possessions including a couple over 15. He played 20 games where he had over 25 possessions including a couple over 40. Even this year Flanders has had 4 games with over 10 CPs.

If you use percentages of **** all touches it sounds like he's peak Dangerfield. Bizarre that you suggest everyone else puts up misleading stats while doing exactly that.

I'm not bending any stats

The facts are that most of Flanders' possessions are uncontested

Naturally, as Flanders was getting 60%-90% CBAs, he's going to have more possessions than a 40-55% CBA Cmack in total

All I'm trying to say is that there is no evidence to suggest that Flanders is a better contested player than Cmack. I am not arguing the inverse

More proven? Yes, totally agree. But most of the Cmack appeal is his upside and potential that would be built on the few full time midfield games we've seen of him where he has shown an ability to be a very good contest player

I can easily see a world where Cmack becomes a player who can not only win clearance, but use it to an elite level

As opposed to Flanders who I'd argue won't ever be an elite user as this is something that can rarely be developed in players

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

Ooooo I’m so scared, isn’t that guy like 77 years old

good to see the demons have replaced one coke fiend for another

Yeah, was kinda surprised he's only 46 y.o

 

[akaifu]

Only Langford looks like a potential bullocking inside type. If Flanders is a soft uncontested type like you suggest it looks a bit of a weird move. They'd be better with that bull CMac.

Classic gringo putting words in people's mouths. Never change

 

[Saintbloke]

You are bending stats to suit your argument again. CMac had 4 games of 20 possessions or above. He's had 5 games of over 10 contested possession. His stats are skewed by some games where he got 10 CPs and only 3 uncontested.

Flanders last year had 8 games over 10 contested possessions including a couple over 15. He played 20 games where he had over 25 possessions including a couple over 40. Even this year Flanders has had 4 games with over 10 CPs.

If you use percentages of **** all touches it sounds like he's peak Dangerfield. Bizarre that you suggest everyone else puts up misleading stats while doing exactly that.

I would be happy with a player who had 5 possession per game, but every one resulted in a goal.

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

Sam Mitchell's wife may wanna back off
Could be the next Mrs.Hardwick

 

[austinnn]

Well it's only a matter of time before the heat gets turned up on Brad Scott, place looks a dumpster fire at the mo'. Tim Watson kinda getting the ball rolling this morning, won't be long before others join in and we see the pitchforks out and torches being lit. Looking forward to it.

They really should do what we did, sack the coach just after an extension. Only problem is, well I guess they have many problems, but they have no one lined up and who would want to coach them right now?

View attachment 2423937

Bad Scott is the least of their problems

 

[stavro#4]

I'm not bending any stats

The facts are that most of Flanders' possessions are uncontested

Naturally, as Flanders was getting 60%-90% CBAs, he's going to have more possessions than a 40-55% CBA Cmack in total

All I'm trying to say is that there is no evidence to suggest that Flanders is a better contested player than Cmack. I am not arguing the inverse

More proven? Yes, totally agree. But most of the Cmack appeal is his upside and potential that would be built on the few full time midfield games we've seen of him where he has shown an ability to be a very good contest player

I can easily see a world where Cmack becomes a player who can not only win clearance, but use it to an elite level

As opposed to Flanders who I'd argue won't ever be an elite user as this is something that can rarely be developed in players

They both have a very similar contested possession rate per possession - which is in the 30%s.

However Flanders has proved that he can find the ball - getting 680 disposals last season.
Infact in his last 9 games in 2024 where he was playing significantly more onball then the first half of the season, he averaged:

30 disposals last
1 goal per game
2 tackles
5 inside 50s
5 clearances

 

[Spider Eater]

Yeah, was kinda surprised he's only 46 y.o

I think Minga is suggesting that King won't be pencilling a happy ending to the Dee's horror story.

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

I think Minga is suggesting that King won't be pencilling a happy ending to the Dee's horror story.

Too bad its Steven & not Stephen
Yeah, l opted out of the horror story jokes, when seeing that

 

[Remboy]

Bad Scott is the least of their problems

They should have gone for the good Scott.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

Have we ever been as ****ed as Essendon or Carlton???
If Naz had of left yes definitely.
But in the scheme of things I’d say no.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

They should have gone for the good Scott.

They should have gone for the good Scott.

I would have taken the third one.

 

[saxond74]

I'm not bending any stats

The facts are that most of Flanders' possessions are uncontested

Naturally, as Flanders was getting 60%-90% CBAs, he's going to have more possessions than a 40-55% CBA Cmack in total

All I'm trying to say is that there is no evidence to suggest that Flanders is a better contested player than Cmack. I am not arguing the inverse

More proven? Yes, totally agree. But most of the Cmack appeal is his upside and potential that would be built on the few full time midfield games we've seen of him where he has shown an ability to be a very good contest player

I can easily see a world where Cmack becomes a player who can not only win clearance, but use it to an elite level

As opposed to Flanders who I'd argue won't ever be an elite user as this is something that can rarely be developed in players

Other than his first season, Flanders disposal efficiency has been over 70%, which is rated Elite & actually higher than Nas.
So I’d say he’s already an Elite user.
Don’t know where you get your stats!!

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

We get to see Cmack & Voss again this weekend in the Vfl.
C'mon Vossy, play a blinder & get on our rookie list, we have 2 to 3 spots available or with a late pick if others are interested.

 

[St Steady]

Have we ever been as ****ed as Essendon or Carlton???
If Naz had of left yes definitely.
But in the scheme of things I’d say no.

we were pretty ****ed when scratcher neale who looked about 50 at the time was playing for us having a cup of tea and a dart at the quarter breaks

 

[MightySaintas]

we were pretty ****ed when scratcher neale who looked about 50 at the time was playing for us having a cup of tea and a dart at the quarter breaks

They were dark days

But at least we had moorabbin

 

[StFly]

I've seen Garcia's under 18 games, he is very good by foot, always put it in teammate's advantage.. the issue with our team is that it's much difficult to find space either when you get the ball or pick out a target down the field.. this is because we try to compensate the poor midfield by bring up the forwards and try to out number the opposition. If we can fix up the midfield competitive issue and do not rely on forwards pushing up, then it will help the side immensely.

Yeah him and Said at Calder were doing much the same things with finding space in mid and hitting up then resting forward and being the pesky hunter of a ball or dumping whoever had it at the time. Said was just "cleaner" in the forward moments so he got more and more time in F50 where Hugo then spent more time in mid comparatively as they tend to spec a bit as you go up from regionals.