List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
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[bird_man]

The tagging aspects is hard to replace but when he wasn't tagging, we were playing him on the wing and at half back which are easier roles to fill.

It sucks to lose him but it's not the end of the world. We've got mids on the list already who can play the positions he was playing.

That's the point. Half backs are easily to replace. Wingers can be replaced. Quality taggers aren't

Now go and find someone that can do all of those and tell me he's easily replaceable.

 

[gringo2011]

Wouldn’t it be a future first? Dees don’t have a pick.

Doesn't mater what it is. We won't get much benefit from it for years. Honestly just pissed off again. This is so St Kilda. One step forward then trip over our feet.

 

[stavro#4]

He's the only youth player besides Nas that is own track at this point. He's the type that does a lot of the hard work. Look at Nas's highlights and a lot of his best work was set up from Windy getting his hands dirty.

I reckon we'll regret this badly. Windy could be A grade next year for sure. SOS and Lyon need to perform next year or they should both be under pressure. We have loaded up for a run and are losing players as they overpay to get older B graders.

Is Owens not on track? Is Hall? Does Tauru not look on track? Boxshall?

 

[BrutThough]

He's the only youth player besides Nas that is own track at this point. He's the type that does a lot of the hard work. Look at Nas's highlights and a lot of his best work was set up from Windy getting his hands dirty.

I reckon we'll regret this badly. Windy could be A grade next year for sure. SOS and Lyon need to perform next year or they should both be under pressure. We have loaded up for a run and are losing players as they overpay to get older B graders.

Windy is the type you've bitched about us overpaying for years. And now suddenly, he's a potential A grader?

Saying he's the only other youth on track at this point is also a wild overstatement and suggests this is more an emotional response than a considered one.

 

[bird_man]

I was suggesting he wouldn’t ever be.

Each to their own.

I think there's a chance he can be, but even if he is just a good B grader, he's a very handy weapon to have on your list.

Other clubs obviously agree. I think if we let him go we have our priorities wrong. Time will tell.

 

[gringo2011]

That's the point. Half backs are easily to replace. Wingers can be replaced. Quality taggers aren't

Now go and find someone that can do all of those and tell me he's easily replaceable.

Windhager is more valuable because of his adaptability for sure. Lyon cut players and filled up with GOPs last time then left the list in a mess when he took off. Hopefully not a repeat.

 

[Pardon me]

I for one, am not about to undo all the positivity based on one blokes guess. Regardless of previous history.

Until it happens he’s a saints player.

 

[BrutThough]

That's the point. Half backs are easily to replace. Wingers can be replaced. Quality taggers aren't

Now go and find someone that can do all of those and tell me he's easily replaceable.

But you dont pay significant money for 4 years for a tagger. If the rumours about North offering 800k are true, you'd expect Melbourne's offer to be similar. That's extreme money for tagging.

Especially when you have Ross Lyon who's been able to find cheap foot soldiers to do the same job many times before. He can teach someone to do it for more then half the cash.

 

[gringo2011]

Windy is the type you've bitched about us overpaying for years. And now suddenly, he's a potential A grader?

Saying he's the only other youth on track at this point is also a wild overstatement and suggests this is more an emotional response than a considered one.

I have never been a whinger about using cap space on players that can play. He's the type we should be chasing instead of B graders. He's a developing kid who looks ready to step up a level. He's exactly what you should chase and why several other clubs are keen.

Aleer is the type that makes no sense to me. He's very average and you need to have a pretty keen imagination to see him being a player.

 

[BrutThough]

I have never been a whinger about using cap space on players that can play. He's the type we should be chasing instead of B graders. He's a developing kid who looks ready to step up a level. He's exactly what you should chase and why several other clubs are keen.

Aleer is the type that makes no sense to me. He's very average and you need to have a pretty keen imagination to see him being a player.

But he is a B grader.

 

[bird_man]

But you dont pay significant money for 4 years for a tagger. If the rumours about North offering 800k are true, you'd expect Melbourne's offer to be similar. That's extreme money for tagging.

Especially when you have Ross Lyon who's been able to find cheap foot soldiers to do the same job many times before. He can teach someone to do it for more then half the cash.

You aren't just getting a tagger though.

 

[BrutThough]

You aren't just getting a tagger though.

So we should match that big deal because he can only play two roles that you agreed were easy to replace?

 

[gringo2011]

But you dont pay significant money for 4 years for a tagger. If the rumours about North offering 800k are true, you'd expect Melbourne's offer to be similar. That's extreme money for tagging.

Especially when you have Ross Lyon who's been able to find cheap foot soldiers to do the same job many times before. He can teach someone to do it for more then half the cash.

He's not just a tagger though is he. We can barely get fill our midfield most weeks. Cutting the one area that moved ahead this year seems exactly how we ruined the only good line we had last year.

It's looking a lot like Battle all over again. These dickheads don't get excuses this time. If their strategy is to cut the back they shouldn't be chasing players. We don't have enough players in that 23 to 27 age bracket and every year the idiots cull it back.

 

[gringo2011]

So we should match that big deal because he can only play two roles that you agreed were easy to replace?

We should pay him market rate minus the stay at home tax or he walks. We have gone out and pushed wages higher then cracked it when it bites back on us.

 

[therealliam]

I hope the club seriously rethinks it's offer to Windy and ups it if we can. Look at what Oisin Mullin did to McCluggage the other night. And O'Connor on Raynor.

But I think that's the reason he wants out? Doesn't want to just be a stopper? I hope he stays and realises he has an important role to play in this team.

But ever since that reported Nas meeting where the Best 22 they touted supposedly didn't include Windy, I've had a bad feeling.

 

[g_TRAIN]

So we should match that big deal because he can only play two roles that you agreed were easy to replace?

He's a really good quality young player. Well ahead of where a lot of excellent A grade level AFL players were at his age.

He can tag yes but I doubt as he matures more he does a lot of that.

 

[gringo2011]

But he is a B grader.

He's B grade at this point but he could easily be an A grader next year. If we go out and try to replace him he's costing us more in trade capital and wages. We also then get very desperate and get bent over by Hawks or GC who knows we are screwed without a replacement lined up. That's if they even want out. Probably makes it harder to keep Nas in a couple of years too.

CMac is C grade at this point. Aleer is D. Do we pay them under $200k each because of that?

 

[bird_man]

So we should match that big deal because he can only play two roles that you agreed were easy to replace?

I don't think we'd have to match the deal. We were obviously a long way off to start with (only offering two years). He's a local kid with mates at the club.

I don't really understand your next sentence.

I said finding a bloke that can play all the roles he can play is difficult to replace. Replacing him with a winger or half back doesn't replace him.

Having a guy that can start on the wing, move back and play a role off half back, go into the middle and play as an inside mid or as a tagger. Gonna be hard to replace that...

 

[beside the seaside]

The club clearly just doesn't rate him that highly.

 

[BrutThough]

He's not just a tagger though is he. We can barely get fill our midfield most weeks. Cutting the one area that moved ahead this year seems exactly how we ruined the only good line we had last year.

It's looking a lot like Battle all over again. These dickheads don't get excuses this time. If their strategy is to cut the back they shouldn't be chasing players. We don't have enough players in that 23 to 27 age bracket and every year the idiots cull it back.

Except we can fill our midfield and he wasn't even in it for a large portion of the run home? And that was without Phillipou in there. Plus Wilson for large portions of the run home.

If - and it's clearly still an if at this point - we also think Henry can return to what he was pre-injury, if we think Owens can run in there now we have some height that can go up forward, if Ryan means Hall can play more midfield, if we are looking at Flanders and CMas as inclusions, if we rated O'Connell's midfield work at the end of the season and think he could be a defensive mid... then maybe it's not the end of the world to lose one because we have other options sitting around who can produce something to the same level.

We should pay him market rate minus the stay at home tax or he walks. We have gone out and pushed wages higher then cracked it when it bites back on us.

But what is market rate? And how do we know we arent offering market rate minus the staying tax but he still wants to take the bigger offer?

 

[gringo2011]

Each to their own.

I think there's a chance he can be, but even if he is just a good B grader, he's a very handy weapon to have on your list.

Other clubs obviously agree. I think if we let him go we have our priorities wrong. Time will tell.

Premiership sides need soldiers as well as stars. He plays like he wants to win. It's a massive step backwards IMO and undoes so much of our good work in attracting talent.

If Marshall, Windy and Steele go we have replaced Marshall and lost 2 mids. Grabbed a couple of third tall backs and small forward. It looks a very confused list move especially with a lot of the best on the list ageing.

 

[g_TRAIN]

I wonder if its due to the "Mystery mid" and us not being able to guarantee Windy he gets to play as an inside mid.

 

[Minga]

Gutted.

I reckon a lot of us here underrate him & his potential. I think he’s a genuine asset to the team (elite tagger, 2 way player big bodied, seemed to be involved in a lot of our midfield clearance highlights), and a standard setter.

Mostly gutted because I wanted to keep that core of Windy/Owens/Nas together. He’s a local boy, and represented a bit of the future of the club to me.

Really didn’t think this would eventuate, so perhaps the rumours he isn’t rated internally are true (wasn’t in the best 22 presented to nas still seems bizarre).

Still holding hope we keep him, however, now I’m beginning to think this mystery mid thing is true.

Wondering if we’ve got our eye on one or two players which if eventuates then genuinely no room for windy to play mid. That’s kinda the only thing that would make sense to me as to why we’d let him walk, don’t buy into the idea that his want for money is so high, but perhaps that’s the only other reason I could understand.

If he does leave, I hope most who are vocal on here about not rating him, and the coaches who allegedly don’t rate him so highly are correct in their analysis, because otherwise it’s gonna sting like a bitch to watch him play elsewhere personally.

Fascinating trade period coming up.

 

[BrutThough]

I don't think we'd have to match the deal. We were obviously a long way off to start with (only offering two years). He's a local kid with mates at the club.

I don't really understand your next sentence.

I said finding a bloke that can play all the roles he can play is difficult to replace. Replacing him with a winger or half back doesn't replace him.

Having a guy that can start on the wing, move back and play a role off half back, go into the middle and play as an inside mid or as a tagger. Gonna be hard to replace that...

You dont pay taggers big money. If finding people to the play other roles he's played is fairly easy to do, matching the big offers for him would essentially be meeting demand due to his tagging ability which is the more unique skill set he has.

 

[gringo2011]

Except we can fill our midfield and he wasn't even in it for a large portion of the run home? And that was without Phillipou in there. Plus Wilson for large portions of the run home.

If - and it's clearly still an if at this point - we also think Henry can return to what he was pre-injury, if we think Owens can run in there now we have some height that can go up forward, if Ryan means Hall can play more midfield, if we are looking at Flanders and CMas as inclusions, if we rated O'Connell's midfield work at the end of the season and think he could be a defensive mid... then maybe it's not the end of the world to lose one because we have other options sitting around who can produce something to the same level.


But what is market rate? And how do we know we arent offering market rate minus the staying tax but he still wants to take the bigger offer?

Phillipou is looking as a reliable as King at the moment and Wilson played one exceptional game and for the rest of the season looked a long way off the best 22. Garcia looks closest to a full time mid and then probably Boxshall in his first year.

Flanders and CMac have both had their clubs say that they aren't moving. Not sure you can't bank on either coming over. Henry looks cooked. He's barely VFL standard at the moment.

Windhager is easily in our best side, nearly everyone you have counted on except Hall is a hope rather than a plan.