List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
​

 

[thekizzler]

Not too different to other players who were cut down by injuries in their primes.

Jake Carlisle, Dylan Roberton, Brad Crouch. All playing great footy then injuries ended it for them. (Or heart problems!)

None of those guys were A+ for one season in their career and then between C and B+ for the rest of their career - for whatever reason.

But that wasn't the point of the post. I loved Armo. Not having a go at him. He might have continued his 2015 form if not injured.

Was just wondering if there were any other one-season wonders at the elite level.

Jason Heatley is an excellent one - although his season after was decent.

Crazy you can kick 70+ goals and three years later be finished at 28 years old.

 

[Moquo]

Pretty sure Armooo was taking the piss out of Dogs supporters.

It's possible he was just taking my advice...

Encourage them. Tell them you've heard it's happening. Get their hopes up!

 

[Captain Paddy]

There is literally no way the club lets Wilkie leave

 

[Rooey18]

Fine but the club is held to account on the list that they have built. This has to get results and you can't come back next year and make the same excuses for them. They can't cry about not getting enough handouts when they can't even hold on to their own players.

We came 12th year similar last year and approaching a compromised draft this year. The club has got aggressive and seems as they are dammed if they do and if they did nothing people would say why didn’t we approach free agency - we have recruited some really good kids but don’t have a middle age bracket. The club is clearly making a call on players they think can elevate the side and as shown by the last 6 weeks as to where certain people were played including windhager spending a lot of time on the back flank then he’s definitely not worth 800k. He’s a solid player and that’s it. Hes seen the money that Owens and nas have got and thinks he’s as good as them but he doesn’t have the X factor either do.

 

[CursingFijian]

Ryan Byrnes

13

Ryan Byrnes

Age

24

Ht

181cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

D/M

Career

Season

Last 5

D

5.0

1star

K

2.0

1star

HB

3.0

3star

M

0.0

1star

T

2.0

4star

MG

1.0

1star

D

5.0

1star

K

2.0

1star

HB

3.0

2star

M

0.0

1star

T

2.0

3star

MG

1.0

1star

D

5.0

1star

K

2.0

1star

HB

3.0

3star

M

0.0

1star

T

2.0

4star

MG

1.0

1star

out Flanders in, is an upgrade.

Marcus Windhager out Flanders in, is a downgrade.

 

[PJays]

None of those guys were A+ for one season in their career and then between C and B+ for the rest of their career - for whatever reason.

Roberton had a break-out year with AA40 and 2nd in our B&F before his heart issue stopped him in his tracks.

Carlisle was never quite A+ but was becoming a gun key defender. Injuries cooked him from the age of 27 onwards. Similar to Armitage.

Crouch I rated our best midfielder in 2023, and losing him was a huge reason we fell away in 2024.

All sad injury stories.

 

[gringo2011]

I make no specific defence of 2025 Butler. But the two years we've played finals since Ross 1.0, the two years we were best defensively in that time, were Butler's two best years. I strongly believe we need a player in the side doing exactly what Butler did at an elite level in those two years. If we can defend and win without it, then that would be a wonderful surprise.

Also, furthermore on Ryan v Butler: I don't know anyone is arguing Butler is the better player. He's just been better at the role we need played and Ryan doesn't come for free non-salary-capital wise like TDK and Silvagni do.

Ratts had a really simple game plan where Butler got a heap of Joe the Goose goals out the back. He's never had as good an impact since and had to rely on his pressure game a lot more. He's still valuable but his body is starting to fail on him.

Ryan isn't Butler but I think he'll be better than people are imagining. I can easily see him making a gaol a week difference and he can play a high HF role which allows Hall and or Henry more time on ball or free from inside 50s duties.

They are different players with different skill sets. Ryan is almost more a high flying Higgo. I still rate Butler when he plays but he's looking broken down and Collard looks a way off still.

 

[gringo2011]

Roberton had a break-out year with AA40 and 2nd in our B&F before his heart issue stopped him in his tracks.

Carlisle was never quite A+ but was becoming a gun key defender. Injuries cooked him from the age of 27 onwards. Similar to Armitage.

Crouch I rated our best midfielder in 2023, and losing him was a huge reason we fell away in 2024.

All sad injury stories.

We have had some absolutely shit luck. Essendon levels of decimation.

 

[St Neil]

Don't think that would be happening in fairness. If wilkie gets done, which i doubt i would think it will be for draft picks.

So draft picks aren’t acceptable for the Bulldogs but they are for the Saints?

Even though you said we can always use draft picks. But apparently they aren’t always used by the Bulldogs because you are happy to trade them away.

Interesting argument.

 

[Saint Kidding]

Pretty sure Armooo was taking the piss out of Dogs supporters.

It's certainly weird posting from him. Tends to post on the Saints board, but here, with ITK news, he has gone to the draft forum, rather than share here.

 

[SainterinSydney]

Unless Wilkie asks for a trade. You can still rightly hold him to his contract, but the odds arein the favour of the player getting their own way from history.

Papley, mate, see the Papley failed trade to Carlton. We are even a bigger bunch of Dean Kents then Sydney were back then.

You have no chance of getting Wilkie.

 

[gringo2011]

Hopefully, I mean if he and his agent don’t care about a messy divorce - sounds like he is over the club.

Let’s just hope it isn’t true..

It would be a disastrous off season for SOS if we lose Marshall, Windhager and Wilkie. He'd almost need to be sent packing at that point.

We need to hope like hell it's made up.

 

[thekizzler]

Roberton had a break-out year with AA40 and 2nd in our B&F before his heart issue stopped him in his tracks.

Carlisle was never quite A+ but was becoming a gun key defender. Injuries cooked him from the age of 27 onwards. Similar to Armitage.

Crouch I rated our best midfielder in 2023, and losing him was a huge reason we fell away in 2024.

All sad injury stories.

Yeah. They were. I do remember.

So, any one-season elite wonders? lol.

 

[AFaiL]

Ryan Byrnes out Flanders in, is an upgrade.

Marcus Windhager out Flanders in, is a downgrade.

Rose coloured glasses there. Flanders being played out of position. We love windy but his disposal has not improved as it should have. In any tight contest, he unloads it forward with no regard - have a look at the crows pies game and tell me how that works.

Prefer to keep him from a culture, tagging, effort perspective but his kicking is dead set poor.

Marcus Windhager Draft Profile

central.rookieme.com

STRENGTHS:

• Athleticism
• Power
• Versatility
• Clean hands
• Scoreboard impact

IMPROVEMENTS:

• Accumulation
• Kick consistency

Has no AFL level scoreboard impact and the kick consistency remains an issue. The club needs to do more to improve this, or move him on (noting another club might unlock this). I want him to stay, but its not the unmitigated disaster some would have you think.

 

[thekizzler]

We have had some absolutely shit luck. Essendon levels of decimation.

Who else?

Dempster, Allen, Penny, McCartin, Koby Stevens.

There is definitely more.

 

[St Neil]

Unless Wilkie asks for a trade. You can still rightly hold him to his contract, but the odds arein the favour of the player getting their own way from history.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t the Western Bulldogs hold Josh Dunkley to his contract after he nominated he wanted to be traded to Essendon?

Coincidentally, Dunkley also had 2 years remaining on his contract.

Yet you are here, on our board, telling us that the odds are in favour of the player getting his way.

 

[The Punter]

Ratts had a really simple game plan where Butler got a heap of Joe the Goose goals out the back. He's never had as good an impact since and had to rely on his pressure game a lot more. He's still valuable but his body is starting to fail on him.

Ryan isn't Butler but I think he'll be better than people are imagining. I can easily see him making a gaol a week difference and he can play a high HF role which allows Hall and or Henry more time on ball or free from inside 50s duties.

They are different players with different skill sets. Ryan is almost more a high flying Higgo. I still rate Butler when he plays but he's looking broken down and Collard looks a way off still.

I'm happy to move on because I keep getting replies like no one reads what I posted.

Hall and Henry more time on ball? Fine, but we can only play 18 on the ground and 23 in the team at one time.

We don't need a high flying Higgo when we have the best version at the club already: top 10 league goalkicking in a team only I seem to give any credit offensively.

But for the final time: we need forward pressure for defensive purposes. I made no comment about Butler's goalkicking or how he got them.

 

[ScrappyDo]

It's a bad thing if we want to re-sign young players but they get squeezed out and look elsewhere because we've allocated 6 or 7% of the cap to TDK.

Clubs find a way to keep their best players. I don't see why it would be any different for us.

 

[stavro#4]

Jumps high.

 

[Joffaboy]

There was a rumour that he was put-out even after he came out and hosed it done. Hopefully we hold him to his contract and repair the damage. He's one of our few A graders.

You keep speaking of damage. What damage has currently been done? This is only SM talk.
If we lose Windy, and Wilks, I reckon the damage will be huge. However you are posting like it has been done.
I would suggest don't jump to conclusions.
Interesting the two FA's, Ryan and Aleer have all come out and nominated St.Kilda after their season. Mo mention of Windy nominating and actually a debunk by Wilkie.
Until one or either nominate another club, no damage has been done, and even if Wilkie nominates a club, we hold him to his contract.
Talk of going to court is fantasy stuff.

 

[stavro#4]

 

[MrFoster]

Davies Anderson and Rowell were there main mids the other night. Touk played a lot forward even. If you think Flanders had the opportunity to thrive as a mid the other night and just didn't perform you were watching a different game.

Flanders were playing HB, so no minutes in the midfield. The dockers were pretty efficient going forwards, so not a lot of ball to be won in the backline too, comparing apple to oranges.

 

[PJays]

Who else?

Dempster, Allen, Penny, McCartin, Koby Stevens.

There is definitely more.

Billy Longer retired due to concussion issues around the same time as Koby Stevens. Had a solid year in 2017 as an up-and-coming ruck, but retired 2 years later at 26.

Hannebery, like Hill, I have criticized relentlessly so won't flog the dead horse...except to say he was a quality player for St Kilda when he got on the park.

 

[gringo2011]

Rose coloured glasses there. Flanders being played out of position. We love windy but his disposal has not improved as it should have. In any tight contest, he unloads it forward with no regard - have a look at the crows pies game and tell me how that works.

Prefer to keep him from a culture, tagging, effort perspective but his kicking is dead set poor.

Marcus Windhager Draft Profile

central.rookieme.com

STRENGTHS:

• Athleticism
• Power
• Versatility
• Clean hands
• Scoreboard impact

IMPROVEMENTS:

• Accumulation
• Kick consistency

Has no AFL level scoreboard impact and the kick consistency remains an issue. The club needs to do more to improve this, or move him on (noting another club might unlock this). I want him to stay, but its not the unmitigated disaster some would have you think.

Windhager has improved his kicking significantly towards the end of the year. Maybe choosing not to bite off too many risky ones or playing less on the inside. His delivery inside 50 especially has really stepped up. His hand balling is close to the best in the club too.

 

[gringo2011]

Davies Anderson and Rowell were there main mids the other night. Touk played a lot forward even. If you think Flanders had the opportunity to thrive as a mid the other night and just didn't perform you were watching a different game.

That's been the set up for most of this season.