List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
​

 

[stavro#4]

The media love to jump on the great young talent at Stkilda. Really. Our talent are 3rd talls,flankers and outsiders.
Being an older supporter I have been through a few rebuilds.The ones that have been successful have always involved gun key position players.I am thinking Hawthorn with Roughead and Buddy,Stkilda Riewoldt,Koschizke.This rebuild does not have a gun Key coming through under 22.Keeler speculative?
Just on Owens, don’t see the hype either.Hard at it,see ball get ball ,all nice but you have to do it against the best and not sure he has delivered.A less skilled Dipper.
Negative maybe, or realistic, yes Iike a lot of Gringo comments.

King?
Tauru?

They would be your A grade blue chips.

 

[thekizzler]

The state of AFL reporting is an absolute joke at the moment.

But so is how the information is digested by fans.

Fans either believe what is spewed to them because it suits their narrative.

They don't believe what is said because it doesn't suit their narrative.

The reality is when it comes to specifics, the media has no idea. Just ball park and even that can be wide as all hell.

Every source to a journo has their own motivations.

St Kilda is going to want to play down contract sizes, other clubs want to inflate them to put pressure on, agents want to inflate them for their clients.

The answer is probably in the middle, but you are going to find the media is always going to report the extreme of their sources, not the conservative part.

 

[stavro#4]

Don't know if it will ally your concerns, but there was a tweet posted yesterday with the Saints potential movements and atthe bottom said wordsto the effect, Saints administration are adamant Wilkie wont be traded.
Couldn't find the tweet, sorry.

It was in the Windhager article from Jay Clark.

 

[gringo2011]

St Kilda should've offered Bont $3mil/yr for 4 years instead of what we've done.

Would give us the best midfield duo in the league.

And saves us turfing guys like Caminiti to the reserves because we're overpaying guys like Aleer who mostly add depth in the overall scheme of things.

I wouldn't have paid the reported wages for those players but I think we should benefit from TDK having more tap dominance and we really struggled with our back 6 all year. Without Butler and Collard looking raw we needed a small forward so Ryan makes sense too.

To me the future best midfield set up is having Nas or Hall in as impact players with a baseline starting set up of Macrae, Garcia and one of Steele, Phillipou, Boxshall if ready, Dow etc. Wilson and Windhager on the outside/bench. Wood, Henry, Hastie etc all as potential outsiders too. Bont would have been nice but he was never likely to leave the kennel.

In an ideal world we are still hunting for a Butters or Merrett type that would turn the midfield into a strength though.

Max King will be our biggest recruit next year still.

 

[gringo2011]

He has the best hit out to advantage % in the league.

And Richmond won threee flags without winning a clearance. The HOTA stat is like effective disposal stats. It's a good guide but it's not all as advantageous as they look on paper.

 

[gringo2011]

Gone:
Boyd
McLennan
Webster
Cordy

Going:
Heath
Jones
Shoey
Byrnes
Carroll
Marshall?

That’s 10 spots

In:
JSOS
TDK
Ryan
Aleer
Flanders
Fincher
Voss?
Campigli?
Frp
Wanganeen

That’s 10 spots

Schoenmakers stiff. I reckon he had heaps to work with. Carroll too. Probably would have paid out Hunter Clark and found a way to keep him on another year. Dow lucky not to be out too in hindsight.

 

[phantom13]

Gone:
Boyd
McLennan
Webster
Cordy

Going:
Heath
Jones
Shoey
Byrnes
Carroll
Marshall?

That’s 10 spots

In:
JSOS
TDK
Ryan
Aleer
Flanders
Fincher
Voss?
Campigli?
Frp
Wanganeen

That’s 10 spots

We just spent an hour arguing about Marshall and youve got him leaving anyway...

FWIW everyone who seems to be arguing about Marshall playing also secretly expects him to go anyway.

FWIW i doubt they all go. It seems clear were not priorisitzing this draft, if we use our first and get Fincher and thats it i wouldnt be shocked.

 

[stavro#4]

And Richmond won threee flags without winning a clearance. The HOTA stat is like effective disposal stats. It's a good guide but it's not all as advantageous as they look on paper.

It was in the context of you saying his ruck work wasn’t great. It debunks that.

After I debunked you saying he wasn’t as good as others.

You are again changing the goal posts.

Cameron and Gawn are elite rucks. They have won flags. We could easily be in that mould

 

[ThomasR]

He has the best hit out to advantage % in the league.

I think this is a bit misleading on two fronts

His actual hitout win % is very low (third-lowest ahead of Marshall and Flynn), so he is mid-pack when it comes to HTA per ruck contest.

Secondly the stat is skewed by the games he played with Pittonet where he was up against part timers. From memory Marshall's HTA per ruck contest when he was playing with Ryder was 11-12%, as primary ruck it falls to 7-8%

All that said I am not that fussed and think he is a good acquisition, on the proviso we trade Marshall for a decent return. Teams who win the HTAs only win 49% of games or something like that. It's everything else he does that is equally or more important

 

[Dard Ball Get]

St Kilda should've offered Bont $3mil/yr for 4 years instead of what we've done.

Would give us the best midfield duo in the league.

And saves us turfing guys like Caminiti to the reserves because we're overpaying guys like Aleer who mostly add depth in the overall scheme of things.

Oh, you’re displeased with what we’ve done/are doing??

 

[stavro#4]

We just spent an hour arguing about Marshall and youve got him leaving anyway...

FWIW everyone who seems to be arguing about Marshall playing also secretly expects him to go anyway.

FWIW i doubt they all go. It seems clear were not priorisitzing this draft, if we use our first and get Fincher and thats it i wouldnt be shocked.

I’m expecting him to go because you don’t meet with other clubs post your exit meeting if you are staying.

My point to you was that, if we retain him and that will be the case unless we are well compensated - we can effectively make it work

 

[Hayes4PM]

Only possible problem with all of these stories around us and trading and recruiting is we now have to get some deals done. TDK and Silvagni are free agents sure, but the Aleer and Ryan stories have been floating around for a while now and both require trades to get done. We may have to overpay slightly given how transparent our club and the extent of media coverage has been on our upcoming off season. Hopefully these trades have already for the most part been worked out and agreed upon.

 

[dudeintheswamp]

Funny thing with Windy is I thought the Boss would really dig him as a player. Hard worker, versatile, potential leader etc. From all the rumours it seems the club don't value him as highly as a few of us might have expected. Thinking maybe our latest offer was something like $650k, norf and dees around $800k, and if we come up the $50k difference that was mentioned to $700k then it's done. Maybe it's done anyway at 650, either way still think (hope) he stays.

 

[phantom13]

It was in the context of you saying his ruck work wasn’t great. It debunks that.

After I debunked you saying he wasn’t as good as others.

You are again changing the goal posts.

Cameron and Gawn are elite rucks. They have won flags. We could easily be in that mould

Cameron wasnt elite when he won it, Gawn is literally the only one and frankly the midfield he had would make most rucks look elite.

I’m expecting him to go because you don’t meet with other clubs post your exit meeting if you are staying.

My point to you was that, if we retain him and that will be the case unless we are well compensated - we can effectively make it work

I was winding you up Stav.

I think were all agreement Roma likely goes so all the back and forth can we play two etc. Is all a bit for naught.

 

[ESPN8 The Ocho]

Oh, you’re displeased with what we’ve done/are doing??

I find your posts more informative the less words you use.
Five sounds ideal.

 

[gringo2011]

The media love to jump on the great young talent at Stkilda. Really. Our talent are 3rd talls,flankers and outsiders.
Being an older supporter I have been through a few rebuilds.The ones that have been successful have always involved gun key position players.I am thinking Hawthorn with Roughead and Buddy,Stkilda Riewoldt,Koschizke.This rebuild does not have a gun Key coming through under 22.Keeler speculative?
Just on Owens, don’t see the hype either.Hard at it,see ball get ball ,all nice but you have to do it against the best and not sure he has delivered.A less skilled Dipper.
Negative maybe, or realistic, yes Iike a lot of Gringo comments.

Probably a fair comment. A few elite KPs are definitely essential. King still potentially elite. Wilkie is elite but not young. Hammer still tracking well despite the negativity. Compared him to Liam Jones because I couldn't think of a good match for him. Last year as a forward at the same age he was tracking similar to a lot of the gun KPFs of the past.

As you say Keeler looks good but not a certainty, Aleer is probably a potential big improver still. Dodson could be developed forward or back too.

Owens had a shit year. Really couldn't;'t get going but a fit King should be huge for Sharman and Owens and pressure for spots should keep him hungry.

Anthony Caminiti and Liam Jones AFL Stats Comparison

Anthony Caminiti and Liam Jones AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

 

[SainterinSydney]

I’m expecting him to go because you don’t meet with other clubs post your exit meeting if you are staying.

My point to you was that, if we retain him and that will be the case unless we are well compensated - we can effectively make it work

I wonder if there are some rough diamonds on the Geelong list who aren't getting games that we could ask for in a potential Marshall trade.

 

[BrutThough]

Callum Wilkie (St Kilda)​

On the Bulldogs’ interest
“It tells us that they are making Cal Wilkie a clear trade priority.
“They need to sort their defensive issues out. They know Wilkie is a long shot given his contract status and St Kilda’s clear stance that he won’t be traded despite them landing Jack Silvagni

1

Jack Silvagni

Age

27

Ht

194cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.0

3star

K

7.1

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

3.8

4star

T

2.9

4star

MG

176.9

3star

D

5.3

1star

K

4.0

1star

HB

1.3

1star

M

1.7

2star

T

0.7

1star

MG

91.0

2star

D

9.2

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

3.0

3star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.8

5star

MG

131.4

3star

as a free agent and getting the commitment from Leek Aleer.
“My understanding with the Dogs is they’re prepared to go higher than the $1.1 million per season across four years that they have on the table for Cal Wilkie.
“They weren’t prepared to go any higher with Silvagni given the durability question marks, but when it comes to Wilkie he doesn’t miss. He’s played 155 consecutive games and internally I’m told the (Dogs) players are thrilled with the club’s decision to target a player like Wilkie.
“The problem with that is they can’t wait for an answer forever, they need to be active in this market for a key defender. Steven May

1

Steven May

Age

33

Ht

193cm

Wt

101kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.7

4star

K

10.5

4star

HB

4.2

3star

M

5.1

5star

T

1.5

3star

MG

307.3

4star

D

15.5

4star

K

12.1

5star

HB

3.4

2star

M

3.4

3star

T

0.5

1star

MG

378.4

5star

D

12.4

4star

K

8.8

4star

HB

3.6

3star

M

3.2

4star

T

1.8

4star

was briefly discussed internally but given he’s almost 34 I don’t think they’ll pursue him.
“No contact with Mitch McGovern

11

Mitch Mcgovern

Age

31

Ht

190cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.1

3star

K

7.2

3star

HB

2.9

3star

M

4.6

4star

T

2.2

4star

MG

189.8

3star

D

7.6

2star

K

6.5

3star

HB

1.1

1star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.9

3star

MG

179.6

3star

D

10.8

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

4.0

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

3.0

5star

MG

218.0

4star

or James Blanck. Tylar Young was considered months ago but there are bigger offers out there for him.
“Wilkie is the priority but they will pivot if they get a no from him.”

Trade Bell: Could Callum Wilkie land at the Dogs?

The Trade Bell has sounded.

www.sen.com.au

Things can come across different in text but there doesnt seem to be anything to worry about here.

 

[2ballz]

Only possible problem with all of these stories around us and trading and recruiting is we now have to get some deals done. TDK and Silvagni are free agents sure, but the Aleer and Ryan stories have been floating around for a while now and both require trades to get done. We may have to overpay slightly given how transparent our club and the extent of media coverage has been on our upcoming off season. Hopefully these trades have already for the most part been worked out and agreed upon.

Been reported Ryan will most likely cost a future second and Aleer a later pick so shouldn't be too much

 

[gringo2011]

Callum Wilkie (St Kilda)​

On the Bulldogs’ interest
“It tells us that they are making Cal Wilkie a clear trade priority.
“They need to sort their defensive issues out. They know Wilkie is a long shot given his contract status and St Kilda’s clear stance that he won’t be traded despite them landing Jack Silvagni as a free agent and getting the commitment from Leek Aleer.
“My understanding with the Dogs is they’re prepared to go higher than the $1.1 million per season across four years that they have on the table for Cal Wilkie.
“They weren’t prepared to go any higher with Silvagni given the durability question marks, but when it comes to Wilkie he doesn’t miss. He’s played 155 consecutive games and internally I’m told the (Dogs) players are thrilled with the club’s decision to target a player like Wilkie.
“The problem with that is they can’t wait for an answer forever, they need to be active in this market for a key defender. Steven May was briefly discussed internally but given he’s almost 34 I don’t think they’ll pursue him.
“No contact with Mitch McGovern or James Blanck. Tylar Young was considered months ago but there are bigger offers out there for him.
“Wilkie is the priority but they will pivot if they get a no from him.”

Trade Bell: Could Callum Wilkie land at the Dogs?

The Trade Bell has sounded.

www.sen.com.au

Things can come across different in text but there doesnt seem to be anything to worry about here.

I obviously misheard the figure. Still would rather they pissed off and looked elsewhere.

 

[SainterinSydney]

Probably a fair comment. A few elite KPs are definitely essential. King still potentially elite. Wilkie is elite but not young. Hammer still tracking well despite the negativity. Compared him to Liam Jones because I couldn't think of a good match for him. Last year as a forward at the same age he was tracking similar to a lot of the gun KPFs of the past.

As you say Keeler looks good but not a certainty, Aleer is probably a potential big improver still. Dodson could be developed forward or back too.

Owens had a shit year. Really couldn't;'t get going but a fit King should be huge for Sharman and Owens and pressure for spots should keep him hungry.

Anthony Caminiti and Liam Jones AFL Stats Comparison

Anthony Caminiti and Liam Jones AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

Could Aleer offer a chop out in the ruck with his leap?

 

[Dard Ball Get]

I find your posts more informative the less words you use.
Five sounds ideal.

Wilkie stay, appeased he is

 

[gringo2011]

Been reported Ryan will most likely cost a future second and Aleer a later pick so shouldn't be too much

Yeah, I saw some suggesting that he might even come as a delisted FA. I guess GWS don't need the picks.

 

[stavro#4]

Love the genius level intellect by our friend on the pugs board.

“Two firsts without even thinking about it. This year’s first is meh.”

So why the **** would we want a “Meh” first?!?!

 

[gringo2011]

Could Aleer offer a chop out in the ruck with his leap?

Probably but I think we have others for that. You don't usually pull a defender up for the ruck. Maybe a ball-up in the back line.