List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
​

 

[akaifu]

These two parts interested me the most.

So we are using a possibly using a Moneyball style strategy to get better, with the drafts being so compromised in coming years.

And the second thing, surely that's a typo from Ralph? Lol. Wtf?

He's used that word on Midweek Tackle quite a bit so no, probably not a typo. Just an alpha male

 

[phantom13]

Tell you what, we reckon were raiding the market, weve missed the Roos big move.

Charlie Spargo

9

Charlie Spargo

Age

26

Ht

172cm

Wt

75kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.7

3star

K

6.4

3star

HB

5.3

4star

M

3.5

4star

T

2.7

4star

G

0.6

4star

D

8.0

2star

K

6.0

2star

HB

2.0

1star

M

1.0

1star

T

0.0

1star

G

0.0

1star

D

13.6

4star

K

6.8

3star

HB

6.8

5star

M

4.4

4star

T

2.6

4star

G

1.2

4star

heading to Arden Street.

Sack the whole footy department for missing this chance.

 

[stavro#4]

Like the overall sentiment of the artciel (although i dont love the ongoing "SOS wants to screw over the blues" thing) but i dont believe much of the seperation of Jack and SOS stuff.

Little bit of the "doth protest too much" for mine.

I love it.

The absolute theatre involved here. It also keeps them honest with player dealings.

 

[SainterinSydney]

One role I think we need to look at is our lockdown small defender--ie Hardwick at Hawks. Do we think Stocker can do it? I'm not sure at this stage due to pace. Does Jackson Voss fit that role?

 

[Moorabbin Ghost]

Met with the hawks last night

Yes but told them today he wanted to play for them.

 

[Anythings_sipposible]

Turning 7 into Cmac and Ryan would be great.

I find it really hard to judge the value of both CMac and Ryan, and to a lesser extent Merrett.

Cmac was a high pick who has demonstrated his skills at the AFL level, but isnt being picked in a team that has a pretty ordinary midfield.

Ryan is a high impact, incredibly skilled player who has performed on the biggest stage, but is also 29 and despite having a lot of hype, hasn't kicked as many goals as you would have thought he had.

And Merrett is a bonafide star of the competition, but he's 30, and paying 2 top 10 picks for a 30 year old is inherently risky.

Couple this with the fact that the draft class this year is a bit meh, and there will be about 100 F/S and Academy players, and it's really difficult to work out what a players value is.

 

[thekizzler]

I probably cut him a massive amount of slack cause hes a genuine third tall playing as a first.

100% that's fair.

Attacking output is significantly compromised by playing out of position, per se.

But I feel there is no excuse for work-rate and some of the defensive efforts.

Some days, he fights like a rabid dog to bring the ball to ground, other days he just looks like lost puppy skirting the contest.

 

[Joffaboy]

100% If Henry, Philippou, and King all have uninterrupted pre seasons, we look so much more dynamic and dangerous. Imagine a forward six of:

Henry Sharman Ryan

Higgins King Owens

With Hall, Philippou, and Wilson all rotating through the forward and the midfield. That's without potential resting rucks like Marshall or Keeler as well.

I think that is a very exciting forward line, and it's one that doesn't rely on one avenue to goal (i.e. King).

Maxxy might just get a new lease on life and look like a totally different, more confident player when he starts getting the ball kicked to him, rather than on his head (thanks to the emergence of Nas and Hall), and when he doesn't have to be the only marking target in the forward 50.

The only thing that worries me is we lack any defensive pressure in that line-up, and I fear we will be very susceptible to turn overs. Would love a player like Ben Long, shame we can't draft a player like that

Can I just say I reckon Henry, King and Pou already had started their preseason before the season finished. None had a preseason, King went straight into rehab to be ready for start of pre season, Henry was run in the seconds and firsts to get conditioning and Pou the same played up forward to get conditioning.
Would not be surprised if all three are not taking an extended break. Let's hope they stay injury free.

 

[Saints4ever]

I’m very impressed the way we’ve managed our salary cap.

Not having lots of A grade stars on our list has obviously made it a bit easier to manage the cap and now it’s our time to shine.

When you think about how we’ve been paying under the cap and saving our money for a serious war chest I think we’ve done pretty well to stay competitive and stay around mid table.

We absolutely have every right to be throwing around the money that we’ve managed in our cap.

Elite from SOS and the team. Very impressed

 

[Armoooo]

These two parts interested me the most.

So we are using a possibly using a Moneyball style strategy to get better, with the drafts being so compromised in coming years.

And the second thing, surely that's a typo from Ralph? Lol. Wtf?

I live statistical analysis, I try to apply it everywhere i can. Studied it at uni between science degrees and an MBA.

But one thing I am confident I'm in saying, that unless they have a team.of world class data scientists, any formula they can come up with is going to be incredibly limited.

Baseball is a sport that you can rely on stats because it's far simpler. How many times did the guy make it to base, how many home runs, how many strike outs. All pretty straight forward.

Footy stats are far more complex, variable and harder to quantify.

 

[phantom13]

100% that's fair.

Attacking output is significantly compromised by playing out of position, per se.

But I feel there is no excuse for work-rate and some of the defensive efforts.

Some days, he fights like a rabid dog to bring the ball to ground, other days he just looks like lost puppy skirting the contest.

Yeh i mean i dont see that stuff as his role, the fact he ever does it has him one up on Max (dont @ me, i dont care)

 

[stavro#4]

I find it really hard to judge the value of both CMac and Ryan, and to a lesser extent Merrett.

Cmac was a high pick who has demonstrated his skills at the AFL level, but isnt being picked in a team that has a pretty ordinary midfield.

Ryan is a high impact, incredibly skilled player who has performed on the biggest stage, but is also 29 and despite having a lot of hype, hasn't kicked as many goals as you would have thought he had.

And Merrett is a bonafide star of the competition, but he's 30, and paying 2 top 10 picks for a 30 year old is inherently risky.

Couple this with the fact that the draft class this year is a bit meh, and there will be about 100 F/S and Academy players, and it's really difficult to work out what a players value is.

Essendon have to be seen as winners in any Merrett trade.

His value has to be relative to the situation. Which is that if you believe he has 3 elite seasons left, does that put Hawthorn in the conversation of being a legitimate contender? It does.

So you pay what’s required in those instances. You get the deal done.

Cmac + pick 8 in a poor draft for Merrett has to be seen as a win by Hawthorn fans.

Pick 7 + 8 would be seen as a win by Essendon.

Cmac (maybe later picks aswell) for pick 7 would be something we would be happy with.

 

[gringo2011]

Bombers will draw a line in the sand and play hard ball. Issue is they may want Cmac from Hawks, in addition to another player plus picks etc.

I actually think they might prefer to take a heap of picks in the draft. I think they have 4 and 5 already and with compo for Draper should have another. If they could get our pick 7 or whatever it ends up as they could have a suite of picks in the first round. It might be an easier sell than players.

 

[Anythings_sipposible]

Can I just say I reckon Henry, King and Pou already had started their preseason before the season finished. None had a preseason, King went straight into rehab to be ready for start of pre season, Henry was run in the seconds and firsts to get conditioning and Pou the same played up forward to get conditioning.
Would not be surprised if all three are not taking an extended break. Let's hope they stay injury free.

It would make such a difference to our team if they were fit and firing. Each one of them is a genuine game changer, and adding them would be adding 3x top ten picks (King 4, Henry 9, Pou 10)

 

[Joffaboy]

Met with the hawks last night

Haha Essendon fanboi Twomey, Merrett 'not gunna happen' while pretending Wilkie to the Dogs, what a sad incel.

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

If we could only have 1 of CMac or Flanders, who would everyone prefer?

Not into either to be honest
Not only can Jackson Voss play in the backline, could be Hall like in the midfield.
And comes cheap

 

[stfan]

Windy was very effective across half back against richmond. he's also been very effective as a tagger and on the wing vs freo.

hes probably top 5 picked in the side right now given his versatility and ability to swing things in our favor without really doing anything flash.

.

I like Windy too, but Top 5 picked he is not.

Nas, Wilkie, Sincs, Hall, King, Marshall

And then Higgins would all be in front of Windy.

Sharman , Windy all come after the above.


Pou should be, but has to put the runs on the board first.

 

[StCicatriz]

just last off-season, no one rated us Nas was a nice player, and he was the only one.

Is is possible to love Lyon and co for what's happened in 4 years but also be wary as buggery.
I said when Lyon came back that we needed a strong head of Footy (and we had Walsh at the time) to make sure that St Kilda came first long term.

Would love to see a list manager and head of footy installed before Lyon leaves so that what happened 15 years ago doesn't repeat.

i wonder if Lyon would stay on in that capacity when he's done with coaching... but i think you're right if Lyon leaves we need to replace not just a senior coach but also get a new head of football

 

[gringo2011]

While I have no doubt Sharman will benefit from a better team and getting a lesser defender, I've always wondered why he is given more slack from supporters regarding his performances than other players.

I'm a fan - but want to see way more consistently.

While some fans seem to believe it's bad delivery and structure as to why he isn't consistent, for me, I see it as his work-rate, application, intent to defend when the ball turns over - his general engagement in the game.

If he improves those three factors, he could be an absolute bonafide gun - that's what I want.

At games he seems like a massive work rate player. If anything he moves up with the play so isn't back in position when the ball comes inside 50.

 

[Joffaboy]

You could see the Hawks thinking that Merrett could be their missing jigsaw piece to make them a Flag Contender over the next 2 seasons.

They would need to make the Dons a juicy offer though, which as you say could free up Cmac.


Mind you as Stavro has said Merrett added to our midfield could also see our Flag hope increase too. But we lack the trade capital this trade period.

Surely Hawks SC would start to come under pressure. Opportunities there maybe. CMAC would be one

 

[StCicatriz]

Hope they make Hawthorn bleed.
Merrett for Watson or something that will really hurt them. All those fkheads in Wizard hats will be shattered

reading between the lines... i think they're looking to get picks for Cmac and then on pass that for Merrett.

 

[phantom13]

Essendon have to be seen as winners in any Merrett trade.

His value has to be relative to the situation. Which is that if you believe he has 3 elite seasons left, does that put Hawthorn in the conversation of being a legitimate contender? It does.

So you pay what’s required in those instances. You get the deal done.

Cmac + pick 8 in a poor draft for Merrett has to be seen as a win by Hawthorn fans.

Pick 7 + 8 would be seen as a win by Essendon.

Cmac (maybe later picks aswell) for pick 7 would be something we would be happy with.

If Merett wants out and Draper has left then they may as well try to sell the full re build. The issue for them as i see it is theyve not won a final in 487 years and their supporter base is broken (they make our 20 years look sparkling by comparison).

If they think they can sell a rebuild then getting another 2 firsts along with the draper compo might be okay, im not sure they can though.

Theyve "won" every off season for a decade and are somehow still getting worse.

 

[stavro#4]

If Merett wants out and Draper has left then they may as well try to sell the full re build. The issue for them as i see it is theyve not won a final in 487 years and their supporter base is broken (they make our 20 years look sparkling by comparison).

If they think they can sell a rebuild then getting another 2 firsts along with the draper compo might be okay, im not sure they can though.

Theyve "won" every off season for a decade and are somehow still getting worse.

Martin is going to miss most if not all of next year.

Draper is going.

Ridley and Merrett want out

Impossible to accept anything but a full scorched earth rebuild.

 

[thekizzler]

Yeh i mean i dont see that stuff as his role, the fact he ever does it has him one up on Max (dont @ me, i dont care)

Max is also a pretty big problem in this regard - I'm not @ you, I agree with you.

When he was last playing, at times, opposition players were just taking on Max because they knew he wouldn't chase.

But I definitely do see pressure as an important part of Sharman's role - of all the forwards.

You can't sustain too many players who are poor in this part of the game - otherwise there is no way you are going to succeed as a team.

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

Good lord what have I started

Again, apologies to all of the engineers, neurodiverse and picnickers who I may have offended - it was certainly not my intention. I was referring to Caminiti's footy IQ as evidenced by what I've seen on track. I appreciate the comments clarifying that, he's just a kid coming from a fair way back in terms of professional sport - there's nothing to say he wont improve in that area and yes,, it was just a throwaway line.

On another note, BigFooty really needs to implement the facepalm or eyeroll reaction.

If you had of mentioned Howard instead of Cammo
I wouldn't of blinked