List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
​

 

[FQFjt]

Obviously there are no certainties, but I don't know how anyone can watch Hugo and have any concerns. He is fast, he has 360 degree awareness, he is composed and unrushed in possession, and criticism of his kicking is way overstated. He also has the drive and hunger you need to be great. In fact, he has shown more in his 26 games (many of which as a sub) than many of our young midfielders have shown in 75 games.

 

[gringo2011]

20 Mackenzie disposals > 30 Flanders disposals

Flanders has very good disposal and better efficiency than CMAC. You seem obsessed with hating on Flanders.

Sam Flanders and Cameron Mackenzie AFL Stats Comparison

Sam Flanders and Cameron Mackenzie AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

Can we keep pick 12 & just get Jevan Pou
Dual-sided
Has some burst speed
Booming kick like his brother
Chunky size already
182cm

 

[Klaatu]

Didn't Ro have a meeting with Geelong last Tuesday.

 

[unrelentingbelief]

Obviously there are no certainties, but I don't know how anyone can watch Hugo and have any concerns. He is fast, he has 360 degree awareness, he is composed and unrushed in possession, and criticism of his kicking is way overstated. He also has the drive and hunger you need to be great. In fact, he has shown more in his 26 games (many of which as a sub) than many of our young midfielders have shown in 75 games.

I agree, I’m more bullish on Hugo than any other of our young brigade, he’s got it

 

[Joffaboy]

Don’t reckon it is generous. If we had a 3rd year player drafted at 7, who had played a heap of games in his first two years, finally cracked the midfield with 30 possessions in his third and then got injured. Would we be happy with a pick in the 15-20 range? I’m not sure we would.

We may be able to use 7 on him if Hawks want to use 7&8 on him which in reality is 12 & 13.
Injectors get possible 5 players inside 13 if Draper gets band 1
Hawks get Merrett
Saints get CMAC.

 

[Train12]

Yes, yes, I like. Future first for Cmac which ends up being in the 20s next year when we are minor premiers

Surely we are in Cmac’s ear!! More than happy to give pick 7 to hawks for him.
2-3 pre seasons already into him! 21 years old.

Bombers will be wanting 2 top 10 picks for Merret.

Yes Cmac could go to bombers, BUT he needs to want to go there.

Saints is the place to be at the minute

 

[gringo2011]

If we lose Marshall, what do we do about the ruck situation?

Back in our kids like we should have done with Moose. How many times has our back up ruck been need in the last 5 years? Keeler or Dodson could ruck for a few matches if needed. Any games pushed into them makes them better long term.

 

[Joffaboy]

Can we keep pick 12 & just get Jevan Pou
Dual-sided
Has some burst speed
Booming kick like his brother
Chunky size already
182cm

Rather a mid with three years of AFL development

 

[The Punter]

Definitely true though, the competition is even as it's ever been.

On a broader note

Geelong: since 2006, missed finals twice
Sydney: since 1995, missed finals six times

North Melbourne: bottom four six consecutive years
West Coast: 11 wins in four years
Essendon: no finals win since 2004

2000-2009: every team played in a preliminary final

So I don't agree with your quoted assertion. Hence why I've been such a bore about draft inequities.

 

[bergholt]

Damn how is the boring season still going, let's hurry up and get to trade period

 

[nikkig98]

I agree, I’m more bullish on Hugo than any other of our young brigade, he’s got it

One of my favourite moments this season was the response and that cheeky smile from Hugo when he kicked the goal the week after he was subbed off. The media were all on his side and against Ross, but Hugo took the comments in stride and came back and had 19 touches and 10 tackles. A lot of modern younger players wouldve sooked

 

[AaronSCHQ]

20 Mackenzie disposals > 30 Flanders disposals

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

On a broader note

Geelong: since 2006, missed finals twice
Sydney: since 1995, missed finals six times

North Melbourne: bottom four six consecutive years
West Coast: 11 wins in four years
Essendon: no finals win since 2004

2000-2009: every team played in a preliminary final

So I don't agree with your quoted assertion. Hence why I've been such a bore about draft inequities.

Geelong- How could you not miss finals, playing at a ground you hardly lose at.

Need to replace that stadium with another stadium that has more equal dimensions to other playing fields.

 

[BrutThough]

One of my favourite moments this season was the response and that cheeky smile from Hugo when he kicked the goal the week after he was subbed off. The media were all on his side and against Ross, but Hugo took the comments in stride and came back and had 19 touches and 10 tackles. A lot of modern younger players wouldve sooked

Starting Hugo in the centre square the next game, lining up against Serong, was one of the best coaching moves of the season.

 

[beside the seaside]

Back in our kids like we should have done with Moose. How many times has our back up ruck been need in the last 5 years? Keeler or Dodson could ruck for a few matches if needed. Any games pushed into them makes them better long term.

Keeler and Dodson don't have the tank to ruck a whole game.

 

[Diehard Saint]

If Heath and Marshall go we'd need a good back up. Much rather keep Marshall, gives us good depth and options.

I doubt Marshall wants to be regarded as depth though. And probably not as second ruck either.
Although he is under contract so shouldn’t really have a choice. But if he really wants out and we get decent compensation, it may be better than holding him a year too long, like we did Stuv, and get nothing.

 

[akaifu]

Flanders has very good disposal and better efficiency than CMAC. You seem obsessed with hating on Flanders.

Sam Flanders and Cameron Mackenzie AFL Stats Comparison

Sam Flanders and Cameron Mackenzie AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

And you guys are obsessed with misleading stats

 

[CursingFijian]

They won’t sadly this is the new normal.

He’s taken the money and the captaincy now he wants to walk away. Sam Mitchell must have some routine, maybe he’s like that running Guru off man down with the giant arse and has them hypnotised.

Mitchell 100% will have encouraged Merrett to NOT attend the B&F as a way of crystalizing his intent to leave. He's got form in this regard. If that occurs Merrett staying on as captain becomes untenable, and staying on as a player is embarrassing for all parties.

Sam Mitchell, and Hawthorn, aren't just enticing players to come across, they actively try to drive a wedge in between the club and player by weaponizing the B&F. It's grubby recruitment in my opinion, and I hope it comes back to bite them when it counts the most.

They should ask for two firsts (one a top 5), or a top 10 + CMAC & Hustwaite. And if that isn't forthcoming, hold Merrett to his contract and strip him of his captaincy and let Merrett play the remainder of his career with the stained red letter of Sam Mitchell on him.

 

[gringo2011]

On a broader note

Geelong: since 2006, missed finals twice
Sydney: since 1995, missed finals six times

North Melbourne: bottom four six consecutive years
West Coast: 11 wins in four years
Essendon: no finals win since 2004

2000-2009: every team played in a preliminary final

So I don't agree with your quoted assertion. Hence why I've been such a bore about draft inequities.

I'd say that the last few years there is only a small gap between the absolute best sides and the sides not in rebuild but does the bottom half of the ladder. Injury and depth are having a bigger say than anything.

Clubs just outside the best top up through the draft hoping to bridge the gap and the strong top up depth to stay up. It is kind of slow self levelling. A bit of luck can go a long way and a few unlucky moves can crash you down.

Carlton were flag favourites at the start off the year. Now they look ready to ground zero again. Essendon had a really bad injury run and lots walked out.


Weirdly Geelong who never leaves finals hasn't had any real benefits since their golden era of FS additions. They rely on attracting a few absolute star quality players by being well run and having a great system.....and possibly some under the counter deals.

To me Geelong are an okay list with the best system. Same with Collingwood. They are a good side with a small pool of absolute stars but they have a team game that stands up.

North and WC chose to go foundation up rebuild and as sonnies you make a few poor draft decisions you set yourself back a bit. Richmond looks to have nailed last year's draft and should be a quicker rebuild.

 

[bird_man]

Can we keep pick 12 & just get Jevan Pou
Dual-sided
Has some burst speed
Booming kick like his brother
Chunky size already
182cm

Where is pick 12 coming from?

 

[The Punter]

I'd say that the last few years there is only a small gap between the absolute best sides and the sides not in rebuild but does the bottom half of the ladder. Injury and depth are having a bigger say than anything.

Clubs just outside the best top up through the draft hoping to bridge the gap and the strong top up depth to stay up. It is kind of slow self levelling. A bit of luck can go a long way and a few unlucky moves can crash you down.

Carlton were flag favourites at the start off the year. Now they look ready to ground zero again. Essendon had a really bad injury run and lots walked out.


Weirdly Geelong who never leaves finals hasn't had any real benefits since their golden era of FS additions. They rely on attracting a few absolute star quality players by being well run and having a great system.....and possibly some under the counter deals.

To me Geelong are an okay list with the best system. Same with Collingwood. They are a good side with a small pool of absolute stars but they have a team game that stands up.

North and WC chose to go foundation up rebuild and as sonnies you make a few poor draft decisions you set yourself back a bit. Richmond looks to have nailed last year's draft and should be a quicker rebuild.

West Coast I can't explain, but Richmond's list still has premiership players on it. Makes a difference.

I'm firmly of the opinion that if we had nicked one 2009-2010, a lot of middling list cloggers would have just been better footballers because they had played in a premiership, and that mentality would have been passed on. There was no great Geelong culture before 2007 and certainly no Sydney one before 2005 other than being pesky underdogs (an approach tried often but successful much, much less). Those premierships changed those clubs.

 

[Nutsngum]

Where is pick 12 coming from?

Our pick will be pushed out to about there by the compensation picks and academy selections.
One of the reasons why we are going so hard against the academies and free hits, it just gives teams competing for finals a massive legup whilst simultaneously hurting the poorer performing teams.

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

I'd say that the last few years there is only a small gap between the absolute best sides and the sides not in rebuild but does the bottom half of the ladder. Injury and depth are having a bigger say than anything.

Clubs just outside the best top up through the draft hoping to bridge the gap and the strong top up depth to stay up. It is kind of slow self levelling. A bit of luck can go a long way and a few unlucky moves can crash you down.

Carlton were flag favourites at the start off the year. Now they look ready to ground zero again. Essendon had a really bad injury run and lots walked out.


Weirdly Geelong who never leaves finals hasn't had any real benefits since their golden era of FS additions. They rely on attracting a few absolute star quality players by being well run and having a great system.....and possibly some under the counter deals.

To me Geelong are an okay list with the best system. Same with Collingwood. They are a good side with a small pool of absolute stars but they have a team game that stands up.

North and WC chose to go foundation up rebuild and as sonnies you make a few poor draft decisions you set yourself back a bit. Richmond looks to have nailed last year's draft and should be a quicker rebuild.

Adelaide have done well.
Who the hell, are Keane, Murray & Worrell
One of the best key-back backlines this season, it seems.
Worrell is actually from Bentleigh
My ol home stomping ground.

 

[sauce_head]

West Coast I can't explain, but Richmond's list still has premiership players on it. Makes a difference.

I'm firmly of the opinion that if we had nicked one 2009-2010, a lot of middling list cloggers would have just been better footballers because they had played in a premiership, and that mentality would have been passed on. There was no great Geelong culture before 2007 and certainly no Sydney one before 2005 other than being pesky underdogs (an approach tried often but successful much, much less). Those premierships changed those clubs.

Interesting perspective. I often think that a lot of middling players are still just that but given a false elevation due to having won a flag. That is obviously the goal but doesn’t make a player better having won one, just more successful on that measure.

Your alternate view is interesting. Maybe it does have some performance benefit to it post flag?