List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part IV

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 4

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
​

 

[austinnn]

We have certainly become more relevant.
Putting backs up all over the place, but I reckon with a little admiration from some other clubs.
Bassat and Ross haven’t taken a backward step and it’s starting to bear some fruit.
We’re on the path.
But we need desperately to back it up onfield next season.

Well yes talk is cheap. Ultimately we're judged on results. The club is taking every step towards better results. I don't think we're that far away, but its hard to think that when we looked so off it in the middle of this season.

In concrete terms, a good year from De Koning, King and JSOS and continued form from the best of this year's St Kilda squad will see us playing finals. Its up to the players and coaches to make sure we build on our smal gains this year and don’t drop off.

The VFL side will be worth keeping an eye on, making sure the development is showing hopeful signs. I want to see a strong game plan that is consistent in the AFL and VFL games, I want to see us continuing to build a strong system that holds up in 2026, with all players tuned in to that.

 

[Captain Paddy]

He’s a surface-level spiritual w@nker. The type to spew all those aphorisms on camera then go home and get up to real nasty stuff.

We see through you Fly

Real two faced sort of character.

Bunch of players at Collingwood don’t like him… mainly anyone under 25

 

[SG34]

… Ultimately we're judged on results. The club is taking every step towards better results….

The VFL side will be worth keeping an eye on…

There are two boxes that need ticking, and one optional box that is nice to tick. Box one: we improve. (Actionable), Box Two: other teams slip up (injuries, scandals, diseases, earthquakes, floods..) and the third ‘nice box’ is that we hustle and demand (successfully) a decent fixture - not one that has soft junk games at the end that softens the fall after we’ve been thrown out of the plane at 10,000 feet, by the bye.

 

[jwikked]

There are two boxes that need ticking, and one optional box that is nice to tick. Box one: we improve. (Actionable), Box Two: other teams slip up (injuries, scandals, diseases, earthquakes, floods..) and the third ‘nice box’ is that we hustle and demand (successfully) a decent fixture - not one that has soft junk games at the end that softens the fall after we’ve been thrown out of the plane at 10,000 feet, by the bye.

Disagree on the fixture. A bad fixture has never stopped a team from winning the grand final.
You’re either good enough to win, or you lose.

Our draw this year isn’t why we missed finals.

 

[bergholt]

Oh shit we're going to sign Todd Goldstein

17

Todd Goldstein

Age

37

Ht

201cm

Wt

101kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.2

3star

K

5.7

2star

HB

7.5

5star

CL

3.1

5star

HO

32.5

5star

D

16.7

4star

K

9.3

4star

HB

7.4

4star

CL

7.0

5star

HO

32.9

5star

D

5.2

2star

K

2.6

1star

HB

2.6

3star

HO

10.0

5star

and Liam Jones

19

Liam Jones

Age

34

Ht

199cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.4

2star

K

6.5

3star

HB

2.9

3star

M

4.3

4star

T

2.0

4star

MG

134.5

2star

D

7.6

2star

K

6.1

3star

HB

1.4

1star

M

4.1

4star

T

1.4

2star

MG

116.3

2star

D

9.4

3star

K

7.4

3star

HB

2.0

2star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.2

4star

aren't we

 

[gringo2011]

A bit iffy about McRae (spelling?)

They’re not losers, they’re winners, don’t sweat the small
stuff yada yada…but still manages to slip in the inference to that umpiring call etc etc. Done the same in other pressers.

Was a real Mr Genial guy the year they won, but whinges plenty in a roundabout kind of way when they lose. Doesn’t impress me.

I don't like him but I agree with keeping yourself scripted to succeed. Fake it til you make it works. Ange Postecoglu does it too.

 

[gringo2011]

More convinced than ever that development is much more responsible than picking well at the draft. Our development has been so shithouse for so many years, still not entirely convinced it's much better now.

System over individual too. They have excellent list management, development and structures in place.

 

[PrimalConstruct]

100%

that loser mentality is a millstone round this clubs F.ing neck and I can't wait for supporters to evolve past it

 

[SG34]

Disagree on the fixture. A bad fixture has never stopped a team from winning the grand final.
You’re either good enough to win, or you lose.

Our draw this year isn’t why we missed finals.

Our draw hurt us massively. That series of early South Australia matches created a hero scenario, from which we could only drop away. And we did. So happily, I disagree

 

[jwikked]

Our draw hurt us massively. That series of early South Australia matches created a hero scenario, from which we could only drop away. And we did. So happily, I disagree

If we were good enough, we’d have won those games. Had nothing to do with travel

 

[Saint Watto]

Bunch of players at Collingwood don’t like him… mainly anyone under 25

Gee.........that's a handful of players that don't like him then.

LOL.

 

[SG34]

If we were good enough, we’d have won those games. Had nothing to do with travel

Yes, of course, if we were good enough, we would have won those games. Roll that dice!

 

[Captain Paddy]

Gee.........that's a handful of players that don't like him then.

LOL.

Even less after the delisting

Just an absolutely insane list build.

If they don’t land free agents, they could be ass for a long, long time

 

[Mat Mann]

Disagree on the fixture. A bad fixture has never stopped a team from winning the grand final.
You’re either good enough to win, or you lose.

Our draw this year isn’t why we missed finals.

agreed, it won't stop you from winning a GF, but it will stop you from making finals IF you are on the edge, but a fixture can set you up, look at GCS this year.

1st 8 rounds, they faced from the previous year
Ess 11th
WC 16th
bye
Melb 14th
Adel 15th but sitting 2nd
North17th
Richmond 18th
Sydney 1st but sitting 14th at the time

unheard of fixture, even more favorable than Carlton's

 

[True Believer]

Maybe, maybe not.

I think it starts with wins but those can be other things besides premierships.

Andrew Bassat and Ross Lyon are standing up and shouting, as Chris Rock did in Baltimore after he got humbled on the Oscars stage:

"I REFUSE to be a victim!"

But I know what you mean, long suffering Saints fans might take a bit more convincing. We've got close before and it all crumbled away.

What we need is to see premierships as feedback rather than the goal in itself. If you run things correctly if youre a serious strong club, you're in the position to win year after year, like the oppo clubs I admire. From that point, if you win is down to what happens on the day. Ross has talked before about results being feedback and i totally agree.

A premiership can be a signifier that we have our shit together but it didn't do much for the Demons except give Goodie time to wreck it all.
Who was the stronger club: the Demons in the 2018-present, or the Saints 2004-2011?

Unfortunately, even our own fans just look at the number of premierships from that period. And all the bad luck. So St Kilda. Boo hoo hoo we're the loser club everybody is right about us. The hell with that.

I'm with Bassat all the way.

"I REFUSE to be a victim!"

It means taking your licks and getting back up, learning and improving. Not thinking of setbacks as destiny but an inevitable obstacle. We've been unlucky, sure. Maybe more than others. So what? What else can we do? Accept that fate will never allow us glory? No, by just learning from it, getting up and punching. As the club is doing.

And by the way, one random premiership in a mire of shit (Port, Bulldogs, Demons) is not going to cut it, not even one dynasty. I won't be satisfied until St Kilda is a serious club capable of competing at the highest level year after year, generation after generation from one admin to another. Other clubs have managed it. Then the number of cups we end up with will be secondary.

The days of us being the joke of the league are over, they've been over for some time but someone forgot to tell the AFL, the media, the umpires, and the fans. Soon they will all get it.

That's why the whining gets on my nerves.

"But I'm entitled to whine because we suck"....

No you're not, that's just being a loser. Suck it up, learn from the mistakes and move on. The past cannot be undone, but it can be a lesson to improve in the future.

The difference between a winner and a loser is not the amount of times they get knocked down, it's the amount of times that they get back up.

 

[True Believer]

Disagree on the fixture. A bad fixture has never stopped a team from winning the grand final.
You’re either good enough to win, or you lose.

Our draw this year isn’t why we missed finals.

Rubbish. We had blokes out injured all over the place at the start of the season and then played 3 of our first, what, 5 games, in Adelaide! What was it, something like 6 of our first 7 games against last year's finalists!

A few soft home games early in the season to get some momentum and belief in young players may well have seen a different mindset and outcome, but we never had a chance to build any momentum.

Then look at the dream draw that Gold Coast had, something like 7 of their first 8 games against teams from the bottom half of the ladder last year! The draw can't get you there, but it can stop you.......

 

[Teflon]

A bit iffy about McRae (spelling?)

They’re not losers, they’re winners, don’t sweat the small
stuff yada yada…but still manages to slip in the inference to that umpiring call etc etc. Done the same in other pressers.

Was a real Mr Genial guy the year they won, but whinges plenty in a roundabout kind of way when they lose. Doesn’t impress me.

Yep bit over this “growth mindset” shit
The guy tries to come across like everyone’s favourite happy uncle
End of day he’s just another whiny assed imposter

 

[True Believer]

Yep bit over this “growth mindset” shit
The guy tries to come across like everyone’s favourite happy uncle
End of day he’s just another whiny assed imposter

Yeah, it's very easy to be this chill, wise, all-knowing guru when everything's going your way. When you're coaching the biggest club in the land, and you've got a good list, a favourable draw, minimal travel, and the press are lining up to give you a blowie, then you can sound wonderfully esoteric. It's been going on at the Pies since the AFL media were all fighting each other to come up with the most flowery description of Malted Milkhouse's "towering" intellect.......

Let's see how slick they look when they're coaching a team that spent 15 years letting the list managers shoot them in the foot, with bugger all supporters, graveyard timeslots for your games, the rough end of the pineapple fixture every year, unable to attract free agents, and heavily in debt for paying off the AFL's biggest asset!

Sound slick, cool and deeply intellectual then............

 

[Diehard Saint]

Disagree on the fixture. A bad fixture has never stopped a team from winning the grand final.
You’re either good enough to win, or you lose.

Our draw this year isn’t why we missed finals.

But it might be the reason the Gold Coast did!

Agree you have to be good enough to beat the good teams to get there, but there’s no doubt a kinder fixture helps.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Even less after the delisting

Just an absolutely insane list build.

If they don’t land free agents, they could be ass for a long, long time

We can only hope.
Nice guy McFly no longer, you’d think.

 

[SG34]

….We had blokes out injured all over the place at the start of the season……

A few soft home games early in the season to get some momentum……but we never had a chance to build any momentum.

Then look at the dream draw that Gold Coast had, something like 7 of their first 8 games against teams from the bottom half of the ladder last year! The draw can't get you there, but it can stop you.......

Indeed.
I agree with this.
The fixture is rigged.
Everyone with their hand on a lever knows this.
We can go to the church, or to the temple, or to a beach, whatever….
Unless we find a way to run up that hill, we are cooked. Rather, it is baked into the system.

 

[austinnn]

Oh shit we're going to sign Todd Goldstein and Liam Jones aren't we

We might have once maybe, but don't you get the sense that those days are over for us?

 

[austinnn]

Disagree on the fixture. A bad fixture has never stopped a team from winning the grand final.
You’re either good enough to win, or you lose.

Our draw this year isn’t why we missed finals.

I agree with your first point.

But as an experiment, imagine how our year could have gone if that bank of easy wins right at the end of the season when we knew we weren't making finals anyway had been dispersed around that difficult, middle bit of the season when the momentum was starting to grind us into the dirt and the mood was getting very dark.
Imagine the miracle at Marvel had happened when we were still a chance to make finals. I'm not saying anything would have been different, but maybe...
Momentum is a funny thing.

 

[projectv]

Old mate Pencil Case is expecting a second rounder for Buku Khamis. Poor Blues fans are about to get the Jack Macrae experience.

 

[austinnn]

Even less after the delisting

Just an absolutely insane list build.

If they don’t land free agents, they could be ass for a long, long time

Fortunately for them, no matter how bad a state that club is in it'll always be a destination club, simply because it's so popular, so rich and gets favored so much by the AFL. Doesn't hurt that they always get huge attendance figures of course!