List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part IV

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 4

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
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[phantom13]

Only becomes the norm when clubs in our position fold, and accept the trade for their contracted player.

Which is why we shouldn’t budge.

Im more saying that clubs approaching and making offers to contracted players is going to become more the norm.

Its clearly becoming alot more acceptable.

 

[phantom13]

This is true. But we have made a pretty decent offer by all accounts. I guess we'll know soon enough.
As Cornes also said, does the pure fact that he's available, and has 4 clubs interested - hence possibly a bidding war actually enhance him as a player - more than he's actually worth?

I mean, to me, us apparently STARTING with pick 7 for him is already overs, before you even consider the financials.

Its just a weird spot with money at the moment, it seems some clubs have bank available, weve certainly set a bit of a precedent. I dont know if that changes financial offers or not but theres some madness going around of late

 

[Diehard Saint]

Only becomes the norm when clubs in our position fold, and accept the trade for their contracted player.

Which is why we shouldn’t budge.

Is our re-signing of Windy regarded as "budging"?
Because if it is, it will give other players the impetus to push for the same.
We know the club increased the years for him, but how much the $$$?
Interesting times ahead for clubs/contracted players.

 

[thekizzler]

I understand things can change with what players say and such, but Wilkie doesn't have to deny anything at the best and fairest tonight if he is staying at the club.

He literally professed his love for the club a month ago and said he has never entertained leaving.

Players don't have to speak every time there is a rumour or story about their future to appease fans.

He could very well be considering this gigantic offer. He could have even said to the club, that I'll take the Bulldogs offer if they satisfy you with a trade. I do think it's pretty unlikely that he will agitate for a move but I've seen stranger things happen.

I would like to think that we have the whip hand here. That the Saints will only release Wilkie in the unlikely event that we end up winning out of the deal.

So far, the list managers have done a pretty good job recently. I've got faith. Let's hope it continues.

I'll be there with pitch forks if Wilkie leaves for f*** all but those weapons don't need to come out yet.

 

[BrutThough]

I can only assume its a better financial offer? Some players are less motivated by the success than they are the dollars

He's also got a very good relationship with Steven King and has the chance to be their number 1 or 2 given Petrecca is out, Viney is old and who knows with Oliver.

That might appeal to him

 

[phantom13]

Is our re-signing of Windy regarded as "budging"?
Because if it is, it will give other players the impetus to push for the same.
We know the club increased the years for him, but how much the $$$?
Interesting times ahead for clubs/contracted players.

It might be BUT its a very very different situation to Wilkie.

Windy was out of contract and had much more bargaining power in that regard but is also not the calibre of player Wilkie is.

I think weve got to be realistic about this, as much as we all might want to see Wilkie continue under his current contract if it is literally half the Dogs offer then its clear that its not just under market value its horrendously under market value.

He may be contracted but if he feels particularly aggrieved at the difference then in the current climate (and the current player empowerment era) we probably do need to give him an extension and a bump. We might not like it but the alternative isnt good either.

 

[Speck]

How do we get Zac Bailey to the saints?

His a free agent next year

The same way we convince anyone else to come to the club.

 

[Joffaboy]

So what do we do?
We cannot be matching what the Dogs are offering, surely?
And it really annoys me that we are in this position when he's still contracted for 2 years.
The Dogs are being vindictive because they lost out on JSOS in a "fair fight."

Dont trade him under any circumstances. Unless they offer Bont, Richards, and pay their salaries and their bulldog mascot we dont entertain a trade.
Yes I know, I am not asking for Bont and Richards, but you understand what I mean. I think Wilkie is like NAZ, an untradable.

 

[stavro#4]

I understand things can change with what players say and such, but Wilkie doesn't have to deny anything at the best and fairest tonight if he is staying at the club.

He literally professed his love for the club a month ago and said he has never entertained leaving.

Players don't have to speak every time there is a rumour or story about their future to appease fans.

He could very well be considering this gigantic offer. He could have even said to the club, that I'll take the Bulldogs offer if they satisfy you with a trade. I do think it's pretty unlikely that he will agitate for a move but I've seen stranger things happen.

I would like to think that we have the whip hand here. That the Saints will only release Wilkie in the unlikely event that we end up winning out of the deal.

So far, the list managers have done a pretty good job recently. I've got faith. Let's hope it continues.

I'll be there with pitch forks if Wilkie leaves for f*** all but those weapons don't need to come out yet.

He won’t be traded unless it’s a win for us.
Same goes with Marshall.

If Geelong or the Dogs want our players and don’t want to come to the table. They won’t move.

Which is why there hasn’t been public trade requests.

 

[stavro#4]

Falchoon great post

Here's the raw stats from 2025 H&A relative to ranking rucks.

View attachment 2440880

With some magic I apportioned points against those stats and ranked the rucks.

ie weighted clearance to 80% CBA, & made a value judgement on points weighting of hitout stats

View attachment 2440882

Summary, Saints should keep Ro at CHF

 

[Sainter93]

Would we rather give up 7 for Flanders or a F1 instead?

I mean I don’t like either very much unless something else is coming back our way. But would probably prefer to keep the F1

 

[Joffaboy]

I think there's a Sam Fisher or Max Hudghton argument... but Wilkie is very important.

So Wilkie is a generational player according to that. Even more reason to keep him.

 

[Omin]

Would we rather give up 7 for Flanders or a F1 instead?

I mean I don’t like either very much unless something else is coming back our way. But would probably prefer to keep the F1

Flanders would go pick 1 in this years draft. List managers say this is the worst draft they have ever seen. We should not be even thinking about trading our F1 over pick 7

 

[jwikked]

Is our re-signing of Windy regarded as "budging"?
Because if it is, it will give other players the impetus to push for the same.
We know the club increased the years for him, but how much the $$$?
Interesting times ahead for clubs/contracted players.

He was uncontracted, unlike Wilkie

 

[Joffaboy]

I can only assume its a better financial offer? Some players are less motivated by the success than they are the dollars

Well GC are better placed than any of the 4 clubs mentioned he is looking at, and with a year on his contract, doesn't want to fight to get into the 22 as a mid but leave for an easier gig.

The report that he wants to look at all four contracts would indicate he is just money motivated more than success, but who knows?

 

[Diehard Saint]

It might be BUT its a very very different situation to Wilkie.

Windy was out of contract and had much more bargaining power in that regard but is also not the calibre of player Wilkie is.

I think weve got to be realistic about this, as much as we all might want to see Wilkie continue under his current contract if it is literally half the Dogs offer then its clear that its not just under market value its horrendously under market value.

He may be contracted but if he feels particularly aggrieved at the difference then in the current climate (and the current player empowerment era) we probably do need to give him an extension and a bump. We might not like it but the alternative isnt good either.

Ah yes - I forgot that very important point
Uncontracted vs contracted.
Huge difference.

 

[littlecreatures]

Heard Richo’s making a guest appearance to announce the delisting of all three.

Just one more time - “g’day Saints fans”

 

[Diehard Saint]

Dont trade him under any circumstances. Unless they offer Bont, Richards, and pay their salaries and their bulldog mascot we dont entertain a trade.
Yes I know, I am not asking for Bont and Richards, but you understand what I mean. I think Wilkie is like NAZ, an untradable.

100%
Sorry Cal, that’s life.

 

[Mindfury]

Heard Richo’s making a guest appearance to announce the delisting of all three.

this is not positively pleasing

 

[jwikked]

100%
Sorry Cal, that’s life.

Perhaps he’ll push for 1 year deals, once the current contract is up. That way it’ll be easier for him to make changes

 

[Joffaboy]

100%
Sorry Cal, that’s life.

I do agree with phanto on this though. He should be shown he is appreciated by
1. Communicating to him that he is a vital cog in the Saints team, and this is the reason we said no to trading.
2. He will be made captain
3. After trade period we will sit down with him and his manager and negotiate an extention to his contract with renumeration more in line with current day pay rates, seniority, and worth to the club.

Doesn't need to be said, but the whole reason the contracts are for years is just this type of insurance against poaching. To build the right type of culture and harmony the club needs to do this in my opinion.

 

[saintmike65]

Gold Coast actually need to open up list spots. They have a logjam of early draft picks, including several from their Academy, that they need to expose to senior football.

If not, these lads will want to leave and seek opportunities elsewhere. The Suns will then haemorrhage elite talent without exposing them to senior football.

Flanders is a part of that logjam. The Suns want to cash in now rather than have his value plummet as he is usurped by others that jump ahead of him.

The Suns won’t get greedy in any trade. They will want a fair price but they are also realistic and know that they need to move Flanders on.

At 24 Flanders is set to flourish given the right opportunities.
When he played half back and midfield he was very influential.
The GC suns then brought in Noble & Rioli pushing Flanders to the forward 50 which diminished his effectiveness!

 

[Jade Buddha]

So do we have an accurate figure on how many players still need to be delisted to achieve the requested incoming?

 

[saintmike65]

So it is a conclusion that St Kilda are really throwing the kitchen sink at this trade season. Did you predict it would go like this?

The strategy was we hit the draft for 4 years then attack free agency & trade period...tick tick

 

[Saintos The ITK]

After trying to fleece the club over the last few weeks, I’d prefer someone else be captain.

Wilkie signed the contract, now he thinks it’s not good enough? That’s not what a captain does

Naz