List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part IV

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 4

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
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[Joffaboy]

I don't mind Steele fwd if he rotates thru
Usually reliable on a set shot and is a tackle machine.

It the old mid resting forward tactic from years gone by.
As you say is a handy mark and accurate kick, not quick but tackles as good as anyone on the team. Would also assist with rotations.

 

[SaintsofSteel]

Jones, Monty and Butts would be the guys on the chopping block and with the incoming group we wouldn't miss any of them.

Wow thats tough on Dan Butler he had a few injury battles over the past couple of seasons, but he is still a bloody good player when up and about. Its amazing how some listed players get plenty of leeway when it comes to injuries, yet others are considered much more harshly.

There is nothing to suggest Liam Ryan is going to find his best form and WHY he is entitled to walk into the side over players like Dan? The 'shiny new toys' are not always better, often the old faithfuls show why they have been so good.

For me all the new players have to earn their place in the side, just like others and I hope the club thinks the same!

 

[stavro#4]

Windhager didn't have 2 years remaining on his current contract. Huge difference.

And he didn’t go anywhere either.

You are allowed to ask for more money.

 

[L_W_P]

Webster's role?

Is he quick/agile enough to play back pocket? I imagine a few of the better forwards would have him turned inside out.

 

[jwikked]

And he didn’t go anywhere either.

You are allowed to ask for more money.

Sure, but I think it's disgraceful to do it when you're halfway through a contract you already agreed to.

 

[BrutThough]

But they made us pay… more… for … Wilkie


Nope, still don’t see this “win” that they are consoling themselves with.

I cant wait for the last day of trade period, they end up with Steven May and the paragraphs claiming 'this is who we always wanted' start.

 

[Sully111]

I'm a bit torn on the Wilkie captain thing.

I can see both points of view.

 

[BrutThough]

Was really impressive the way we went from him basically going to Collingwood, to a few suiters (with no mention of St Kilda) to St Kilda quickly being the chosen one.

It's been a very wild 6 weeks lol

Our presence as a club and our relevance has grown by the week.

 

[stavro#4]

Sure, but I think it's disgraceful to do it when you're halfway through a contract you already agreed to.

For a very long time, our club was considered a really poor club towards its own people.

In this day and age, it means a hell of a lot for a club to say. You know what Cal, we agree you are under paid. We won’t match that offer. But we will move a few hundred K so that it is inline with your status in the game and to us.

I’m usually quite happy for players to leave if they are dancing for it. Losing Wilkie just defeats the purpose of what we are building.

 

[jwikked]

Our presence as a club and our relevance has grown by the week.

Hopefully this will influence our TV schedule for next year. More Saturday night games, rather than Sunday arvo like this year. Would love that.

Was a shame not getting to enjoy many Sat night Saints games.

 

[BrutThough]

Seems like both JSOS and Wilkie had severe second thoughts on offers after meeting the coach face to face. Wonder why?
Stavro and St.Neil know. I am not surprised players are being scared off going to that club. I will be mightily surprised if Butters lands there.

It's so impressive they keep extending him based on something that happened a decade ago. Every other team is the competition would be thrilled they have happy to stay between 7th and 10th each year and waste the generational talent they have.

 

[jimmytigs]

Moments silence for saintersunite doing gods work

wasted 10 minutes of my life searching for what he got banned for,dogs must scrub all oppo posts,nothing from him or from anyone from any other club,thats as soft as it gets

 

[BrutThough]

Hopefully this will influence our TV schedule for next year. More Saturday night games, rather than Sunday arvo like this year. Would love that.

Was a shame not getting to enjoy many Sat night Saints games.

We should get a better FTA schedule. People want to watch Nas.

Get that opening round game against Collingwood and hopefully another early season MCG game against Carlton. We could have two 70k+ crowds.

 

[Joffaboy]

Windhager didn't have 2 years remaining on his current contract. Huge difference.

Really don't think there is much difference. Windy used the North offer to bump the contract from 2 to 4 years. List managers had to act.

Wilkie had his head turned by an unsolicited monster offer by a desperate club.
What is the new potential.captain worth to the Saints? Saints could have just sat tight and said contracted, wait two years.
But is that what a club with good culture does to one of its best and most durable players?
It has been said for months this would happen and it sends a positive message to the playing group, we will look after you.
And that culture is bearing fruit. NAZ was offered 2.5 x 2 by Port ( then lesser about 1.3 over the next six). He took 2.0 x 2 so a mill less, backing himself for a bigger pay day. Windy took a lesser deal than the North offer both in years and money by a fair bit.
Now Wilkie has taken substantially less to stay. Let's say and extra three for a mill for all 5 years. Reports Bulldogs offered 1.5 x 5 ( my contacts said more like 1.2) so the higher end he took 2.5 mill less ( or a mill less if my figures of 1.2 is correct).
Three players with big and higher contracts in front of them from rival clubs decides to stay at the Saints. This only happens if the culture and atmosphere at a club is healthy and everyone is pulling in the same direction.

This is good clubs do. The next couple of years, if all goes well, should see that culture maintained and players wanting to come to the Saints not on the overs we paid but to play at a relevant and serious club on market rates.

That seems the strategy. Will it work? History would say odds are against it, however the club is having a red hot crack at changing the perceptions and the fortunes of this club, one that has a sleeper base of support that could match Geelong and Hawthorn if not Collingwood and Richmond. 17000 new members ( granted a publicity stunt but very successful) shows the sleeper Saints support.
We start to succeed on a regular basis and watch the crowds grow. I want to see the Saints supporters as obnoxious and smug as Hawk fans and as disliked by the competition as any club in the league.
**** 'em all. As the President says ' we aren't out to make friends'.

 

[stavro#4]

wasted 10 minutes of my life searching for what he got banned for,dogs must scrub all oppo posts,nothing from him or from anyone from any other club,thats as soft as it gets

Went on the dogs board. They banned him and deleted the evidence.

Never go onto that board. The victim mentality is unreal and their mods will ban you.

Same warning applies to Carlton.

Adelaide Collingwood Essendon (just don’t call them injectors) Freo Melbourne North Port Richmond West Coast based on my experience are all somewhat decent.

Keep in mind, you are on their turf and need to accept their own bath water drinking delusions whilst there.

 

[DT_35]

wasted 10 minutes of my life searching for what he got banned for,dogs must scrub all oppo posts,nothing from him or from anyone from any other club,thats as soft as it gets

He went nuclear on there board lol

 

[hayes]

We all love Wilkie but meeting with other coaches then straight after that captain? Doesn’t quite add up for me.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Wow thats tough on Dan Butler he had a few injury battles over the past couple of seasons, but he is still a bloody good player when up and about. Its amazing how some listed players get plenty of leeway when it comes to injuries, yet others are considered much more harshly.

I'm meaning the talk of him being traded. We aught have enough cover so from a LM POV I'd say they'd like to move him out if possible.

 

[stavro#4]

We all love Wilkie but meeting with other coaches then straight after that captain? Doesn’t quite add up for me.

Rooey met Eddie and was Captain still

 

[phantom13]

Agree with the fellas. Windhager is a decent option

So the guy that wanted more money and looked at another clubs offer cant be captain and the next best option is...

The other guy who wanted more money, looked and another clubs offer and waited to sign an extension to do so...

Cant say i follow that logic.

We probably need to accept that modern contract management is gonna look more and more like this, its also not mutually exclusive that you can want more money AND want to improve your team.

 

[SaintsofSteel]

Sure, but I think it's disgraceful to do it when you're halfway through a contract you already agreed to.

The significant rise in the salary cap has flipped the entire industry on his head in recent years. The $$$ and benefits being afforded to players has made for a much more fluid industry. 10 years ago it would have been unheard of, let alone the amount of players wanting to be traded whilst in contract but thats history.

No one was bemoaning Nas working the club for the biggest contract in the game, even though he had decided to stay a month before the deal was made. Thats an entire million more than what we expect Callum is being paid.

Players are entitled to ask for increases in line with industry standards and the club should be mature enough to deal with it.

 

[BrutThough]

I dont think meeting with another clubs coach before being captain rules someone out of becoming captain.

He's not leaving despite the meeting and for all we know, all it did was show him he doesnt want to play elsewhere but his grievances about not being accurately paid for his performance and everything else he does for the group still existed (and probably fair to have).

If he was threatening a trade, it would feel difference. But I dont think it ever reached the level.

 

[jwikked]

So the guy that wanted more money and looked at another clubs offer cant be captain and the next best option is...

The other guy who wanted more money, looked and another clubs offer and waited to sign an extension to do so...

Cant say i follow that logic.

We probably need to accept that modern contract management is gonna look more and more like this, its also not mutually exclusive that you can want more money AND want to improve your team.

One is in the middle of a contract they already agreed to. The other didn't have a contract, and clearly wanted to stay. Can't be compared at all.

 

[phantom13]

One is in the middle of a contract they already agreed to. The other didn't have a contract, and clearly wanted to stay. Can't be compared at all.

Neither left. The rest is pure speculation, how hard did Wilkie actually pursue a trade, doesnt seem like very hard and Windy from media reports was one foot out the door (not exactly clear he wanted to stay).

Either option is absolutely fine as is you making some arbitrary line in your own mind but theyre absolutely comparable.

 

[heynow85]

I think just give him the captaincy. We will all move on pretty quickly.