List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part IV

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 4

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
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[saintmike65]

Pick 7 (likely drifting to 12) for a contracted Flanders is a no brainer this year. His ability to get ground ball and release by hand or hit targets by foot will really help Nas and our forwards.

His acceleration is underrated around stoppage as well. Seems to be very good at getting first hands to ground balls.

Who ever we took with this pick we would have been questioning more than Travaglia is now with all the queries over those at our draft range.

Spot on..to get a contracted player a club expects to pay overs.
At 24 Flanders best footy is ahead of him

 

[Anythings_sipposible]

The three big tests for us to show that we are a serious threat, in my opinion, are:

1) beat Lions anywhere;
2) beat the Dogs;
3) beat Crows in Adelaide.

Beat Collingwood and Carlton if we get them round 1 & 2. Do that, and there will be some serious hype around us early season, particularly if King or Pou get a run on.

I'm of the opinion that we have a rare amount of momentum that has been building since 3 quarter time of the Dees game (I actually think it's a mystic momentum, and that we have received the blessings of the Moirai). If we can keep this momentum going, then who knows where it will lead us

 

[saintmike65]

A lot of people acting like oppo supports are crazy or jealous for questioning our strategies, but come on guys, be serious for one minute. If the dogs or demons were making these moves, we would be saying the exact same things.

There are a few things to consider though. The first being that player salaries aren't straight forward. There is usually a base package, match fees and then bonuses for things like meeting certain thresholds for matches played, best and fairest performance results, All-Australian selections. So at the time a contract is signed there is actually no way to predict exactly what they will actually be paid. A multi-year deal is unlikely to be at a flat rate either, they are still likely to be front ended. What this all means is that a player like DeKoening could have an average base of $1.1m (starting at $1.5m in 2026 and working down $750k in the final year of his deal). He could also have $10k match fees, a $50k bonus for a top 5 B&F and a $50k bonus for an All Australian selection.

That would mean that if he plays every game next year, makes AA and wins the B&F, that he would be paid $1.8m next year. So the reports go out that DeKoening signs a 7 year deal at $1.8m per year and everyone runs with it uncritically. It might not technically be inaccurate next year, but it doesn't paint the whole picture. We simply can't expect opposition supporters to look at our finances with this level of nuance.

I think what we are doing is the smartest thing we can do in our position. I would have loved it if some of the players were a bit more exciting than Ryan and Silvagni, but that is not on the cards for us. The best way to get better players to want to join us is by moving up the ladder and these moves help us do that. Sure we may lose a couple of players we don't want to down the line when other clubs come chasing our players with blank cheques, but we can convert them into draft capital and the total value of our list should remain the same (assuming we trade and draft competently.).

Simply drafting and overpaying youngsters and being a perennial mid table team is not a better strategy.

Regardless of how this plays out, I will always defend this play. It is smart and most importantly, pragmatic. We are playing the cards we have been dealt in a way that gives us the most chance of success. Once you achieve success the rules of the game change. If we can snag a flag, we are no longer a small club and we don't have to overpay and we will start getting players wanting to play for us for unders.

We have some smart guys running the club, just remain quietly confident. We lose nothing by having oppo supporters laugh at us now, nor would we gain anything by them celebrating every move we make.

Just sit back and trust the process.

Very well said...regarding Ryan and JSOS, maybe underselling them somewhat!
Both will be important players in the makeup of our side.

 

[phantom13]

Tassie aren’t the bears, there’s no way teams are going to fleece them with c graders for top picks.

The only way Sanders will get them one of the high tradable picks is to play like someone who’s worth it that they don’t want to loose.

Then of course the player still has to want to go to Tassie and that’s not a given these days.

If trading him to Adelaide with get them Butts then that’s the right play imo.

THis is the issue.

Sanders is a former number 6 pick who (seemingly) wants to go home.

Tassie has to trade 5, 7, 11 and 13 either for players or other draft picks.

The fact they have to trade them immediately makes them less valuable, they have to go, theyll go for unders and i could easily see Sanders getting 7 and 13.

 

[saintmike65]

Unless we get De Goo Goo as a salary cap dump, do not want. He would cost a fortune in a trade.

Just so clever Doc!!

 

[AFaiL]

I think we look worst when he plonks himself near goals and calls for the ball on top of his head. His best role is to roam everywhere from FF to Wing.

Absolutely - with one caveat, if he can at least be on the move with that chaos ball then our small forwards are able to cause some pain for the oppo. One thing we have really missed is somebody bringing the ball to ground

 

[phantom13]

Beat Collingwood and Carlton if we get them round 1 & 2. Do that, and there will be some serious hype around us early season, particularly if King or Pou get a run on.

I'm of the opinion that we have a rare amount of momentum that has been building since 3 quarter time of the Dees game (I actually think it's a mystic momentum, and that we have received the blessings of the Moirai). If we can keep this momentum going, then who knows where it will lead us

We have to be playing finals, anything short is a failure given how aggressive weve been this off season. Really winning a final has to be the minimum.

Importantly our season was over by round 12 this year, weve gotta be alive and in the hunt otherwise the wheels fall off and the knives will be out.

 

[saintmike65]

23 for McVee is an absolute steal for the Dockers

Very handy player McVee and only 22

 

[Yawkey way]

Boy oh boy. No, there were not. Categorically.

This is ridiculous lol.

Players can suffer setbacks in injury return - do you know the medical assessments at the time were wrong?

And even if they were wrong, so what? There was still no way in knowing King would be out for the season at the time of the MSD.

And your Cordy argument? Absolute rubbish chat. You can't retire a player against their will.

Where there’s a will there’s a way.

The club had no appetite for it for whatever reason so presumably didn’t bother trying to find a spot.

It was interesting reading the rules you posted but come on teams wouldn’t have to much trouble opening up a spot and complying with those.

Who was the great miss anyway ? Archer May for example had been under everyone’s nose it’s not like he was some Bevo Smokey.

I’m more interested in who else were chasing now and what we’re asking for Marshall.

 

[Captain Paddy]

Trade Radio saying there's almost been a softening from Dimma/gold coast on Bailey Humphrey based on some family issues..

We couldn't slide in and get him and Flanders

 

[Yawkey way]

THis is the issue.

Sanders is a former number 6 pick who (seemingly) wants to go home.

Tassie has to trade 5, 7, 11 and 13 either for players or other draft picks.

The fact they have to trade them immediately makes them less valuable, they have to go, theyll go for unders and i could easily see Sanders getting 7 and 13.

I’m not a fan and Nathan Buckley is no fool.

I haven’t read the Tassie concession other than the draft picks and the must trade nature of some. I have some memory of hearing something related to out of contract players. Also every club will be chasing those picks and throwing up deals, Tassie will do pretty well out of it imo.

 

[phantom13]

Trade Radio saying there's almost been a softening from Dimma/gold coast on Bailey Humphrey based on some family issues..

We couldn't slide in and get him and Flanders

If the Flanders deal has been agreed i seriously doubt (and hope) wed **** around with that to try and get something else in there.

 

[TheOsprey]

What will hopefully help King when he comes back into the side is better entries inside 50 because we have a better midfield now.

We’ve arguably played worse with him in the team in recent years just looking to him every time and bombing the ball high to a contest in his direction, hoping he can pull of the magical, while he’s being molested by 2 tall defenders.

But while fixing the entries is one thing we also need proper alternative tall options to support him and stop him getting double teamed all the time.

 

[Yawkey way]

If the Flanders deal has been agreed i seriously doubt (and hope) wed **** around with that to try and get something else in there.

We must be running out of trade capital and Melbourne look in a pretty good spot with Petracca.

 

[phantom13]

I’m not a fan and Nathan Buckley is no fool.

I haven’t read the Tassie concession other than the draft picks and the must trade nature of some. I have some memory of hearing something related to out of contract players. Also every club will be chasing those picks and throwing up deals, Tassie will do pretty well out of it imo.

Every expansion team has been to a degree raided when theyve come in.

This will be no different. A former number 6 pick who has shown a bit and is a local boy is a GREAT story for the Devils, he could well be their first captain if he has a decent season this year.

The bolded is the issue and it directly contradicts your previous point about getting players who want to come. Im sure every club could look at deals but while players need to agree Tassie is gonna struggle initially, theyll get a couple of marquees by throwing cash at them but guys like Sanders (maybe Arie) will get overs.

Bookmark it if you want, its happened with literally every expansion team, itll happen again.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Nah not frustrated with the club. Frustrated with Max King. Not his fault I know. But when the marquee 'generational talent' that a flag quest was supposed to be built around can't get on the park with multiple serious injuries over multiple years - and he just looks fragile and without durability - I start to question building a forward line around him and think we should be looking elsewhere.

I just don't get this attitude... some supporters act as if Max owes them something because he's suffered a number of unrelated impact injuries. Doug rips his shoulder out of it's joint, then he lands awkwardly on his knee twice in two years... it's nothing but sh!tty luck.

Not talking about you specifically LoF but some of the comments here, at games and online in general border on vitriolic.

No one is more frustrated than Max. The poor bastard just wants to be out there performing to the level that he knows he can.

 

[heynow85]

 

[thekizzler]

I’m more interested in who else were chasing now and what we’re asking for Marshall.

This.

The revisionism on that MSD - which as you pointed out looks average anyway - with King's injury and Cordy not playing is ridiculous.

Onward and upward with the trade period. Haven't been more excited for a new season start since as long as I can remember.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Anyone else feeling uneasy this morning about the media driven Geelong narrative of Marshall being a salary dump?

No. Because it’s the media.
And we have SOS.

 

[Yawkey way]

What will hopefully help King when he comes back into the side is better entries inside 50 because we have a better midfield now.

We’ve arguably played worse with him in the team in recent years just looking to him every time and bombing the ball high to a contest in his direction, hoping he can pull of the magical, while he’s being molested by 2 tall defenders.

But while fixing the entries is one thing we also need proper alternative tall options to support him and stop him getting double teamed all the time.

He’ll be fine if he can get fit and stay on the park.

If not the club and ming will have a big problem. I’m still all for hanging onto Marshall, he’s worth more to us than a late first rounder.

 

[magd2992]

Billings, Acres, Gresh.

#BringThemHome

 

[triggering bro]

Humphries would be amazing. A future first and whatever we get for Marshall would be palatable for both parties. Even chuck in Butler for good measure. Happy to pay overs for Humphries who looks like an absolute jet.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Take the media narrative about us with a pinch of salt. Negativity gets clicks. The only people interested in reading positive spin about us are St Kilda supporters, of which there are few.

There are 17 clubs fan bases who want to read about how we’re on the verge of imploding.

Embrace the hate/jealousy.
It’s part of being relevant.
We are scoring home runs ( wrong sport I know) pre-season. We are going to now have to put it together in the season proper.

 

[MrFoster]

Billings, Acres, Gresh.

#BringThemHome

To sign for the Saints VFL team for peanuts yea, otherwise, no!

 

[Armitage2Riewoldt]

Flanders one of the first done wasn't expecting that.

We got shit to do clearly.