List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part IV

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 4

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
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[malevu]

After following the Saints for 50+ years I'm well and truly over seeing the club fkd over every which way. To say it's time we did what's right for us is the understatement of the year. It's time we were on the other side of these dealings even if we can't claim the moral high ground.
In 1971 as a kid I watched the Saints-Hawks Grand Final. At the time both teams had won one flag. Fast forward to today and the Hawks have now won 13 and we are still on one flag. I'm well and truly tired of waiting. The Hawks didn't get their results by being everybody's second favorite team. They still operate that way today.
Personally, I'm concerned that we do the right thing by a loyal Saint like Steele who has given his blood and guts for the club, rather than stress over a dude that's never pulled on the guernsey.
I'll tell you two blokes who won't be losing any sleep tonight over the Aleer fallout - Gubby and RTB.

 

[triggering bro]

It probably is, that doesn’t really matter to the current narrative. Best case is we can’t count?

100% this.

I’m fine if people wanna just say “oh well, we’re doing what’s best for us, **** the collateral damage”, that’s fine.

I can’t actually think of another situation that mirrors this.

Bobby Hill not getting to the bombers was tough to watch (they showed the last day of that on that Amazon doco) and there’s been others that have had a bit of fallout but Aleers managers response, us walking with a week to go.

That’s all pretty unprecedented and very difficult to defend.

Deals in all sports fall over all the time for various circumstances. The difference on this occasion is that the player manager has not only made it public by leaking the details to the media but he has also made a public statement and put his name to it. Very unprofessional if you ask me.

 

[Armoooo]

And guess what? That’s the first I’ve heard of it.
Obviously got very little outraged airtime.

A club considering throwing a lifeline to a player not being offered a contract is a bit different.

We like to talk about journos not knowing what they're talking about, but the Aleer situation being repeatedly compared to the Derkson one is embarrassing.

If people say it's shit form, but I dont care. I can honestly respect that.

But trying to act like this is normal just makes us all look stupid.

 

[Significant]

It probably is, that doesn’t really matter to the current narrative. Best case is we can’t count?

100% this.

I’m fine if people wanna just say “oh well, we’re doing what’s best for us, **** the collateral damage”, that’s fine.

I can’t actually think of another situation that mirrors this.

Bobby Hill not getting to the bombers was tough to watch (they showed the last day of that on that Amazon doco) and there’s been others that have had a bit of fallout but Aleers managers response, us walking with a week to go.

That’s all pretty unprecedented and very difficult to defend.

No, we can count, but we may have been banking on either Marshall or Steele being traded, and may have not counted on JSOS being available.

The alternative would be to delist Caminiti or Hall and re-rookie, or delisting Carroll or Dow and agreeing to rookie them.

We may not have wanted to do that for Aleer though, its still a gamble.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Typical bloody St. Kilda…..

The only club to have an exodus of a player we hadn’t yet signed!

 

[phantom13]

The Hawks dont give a flying. They've burnt more players over the years than any other club. They then sell the "family" club shtick. Mitchell's 3/4 scowl, 1/4 smirk tells you all you need to know about them. I want us to be more like them.

Hopefully all the events of the past few months is our line in the sand for a new St Kilda where we can stop complaining and can lose the explaining.

The fact that Aleer's manager had no idea going into trade week after his player nominated a club that had other players lined up says to me there is one large source of incompetence.

I actually agree with this completely. Big clubs don’t give a **** but they also don’t tend to play the victim if the media goes them.

We’re not here either (at least the club isn’t) give no quarter ask no quarter.

But the original post was about this board claiming we get whacked in the media unfairly. We really don’t and we really shouldn’t care.

Other supporters being mad about our moves is a good thing.

 

[gringo2011]

There’s certainly an aspect of burning player managers that is real.

Pickering spoke about essentially telling Essendon to go **** themselves over bungling the Dunkley deal.

How big an impact that has is definitely up for debate. It doesn’t seem to linger much but it’s a real thing.

If you’ve watched that doco Amazon prime did player managers seem like the most arrogant morons since real estate agents so I doubt the list managers care about their opinions too much.

They also don’t give a shit when they are getting their percentage. Plenty of clubs have had deals fall apart at the negotiating table.

 

[goodie23]

Geelong think that deal with curnow is actually going to get done hahahaha

They're counting on Carlton not realising that all three first rounders will be 20+

It would be hilarious if they took a tumble down the ladder the next few years

 

[Hayes4PM]

I hope we haven’t annoyed those at Centimetre Perfect Global, it may cost us in an attempt to lure Anthony Munkara

PRESTIGE WORLDWIDE (wide wide wide)

 

[phantom13]

No, we can count, but we may have been banking on either Marshall or Steele being traded, and may have not counted on JSOS being available.

The alternative would be to delist Caminiti or Hall and re-rookie, or delisting Carroll or Dow and agreeing to rookie them.

We may not have wanted to do that for Aleer though, its still a gamble.

Then we can’t plan.

There’s no way to spin that list spots isn’t an us issue.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

Deals in all sports fall over all the time for various circumstances. The difference on this occasion is that the player manager has not only made it public by leaking the details to the media but he has also made a public statement and put his name to it. Very unprofessional if you ask me.

Their entire stable are AFLW or fringe AFL. Out of his depth ol chrome dome

 

[phantom13]

They also don’t give a shit when they are getting their percentage. Plenty of clubs have had deals fall apart at the negotiating table.

Yeh, again, I’m not saying it’s the end of the world but plenty of players ask their managers about clubs, this leaves a stain, it might just be a tiny one.

Also I can’t name any other club that’s had a deal fall apart quite this spectacularly, so we don’t have any precedent for how bad it might look.

This isn’t bed wetting, if he didn’t make sense I’m glad we walked but we can’t really claim it doesn’t matter at all.

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

I am a bit curious as to why we are traing into what is goiung to be the most compromised draft in 15 years

And possibly one of the deepest talent pool in history
Hopefully
We definately have been told that this years draft is a weaker one.

 

[Significant]

Then we can’t plan.

There’s no way to spin that list spots isn’t an us issue.

I'm not saying its not an us issue, but its a turbulent time in managing a squad, and with so much dynamics going on, and posturing being had, sometimes there are casualties.

Based on my assumptions, and of all the iterations of player movement this trade period, I'm glad we have chosen to not trade Marshall or Steele for stuff all, or delisted Caminiti, Hall, Dow or Carroll, to make room for Aleer.

 

[Armoooo]

No, it's factoring them into the equation as well.

IT IS LIST SPOTS!

Think about it, the reason we have publicly been flexible on Steele.

How Marshall matters have transpired today.

By my calculations, we still need to trade or delist at least one more contracted player to take the minimum 3 picks to the ND.

OUTS
Senior: Webster, Cordy, Heath, Jones, Byrnes, Schoenmaker (6)
Rookie: McLennan, Boyd (2)

INS
Senior: TDK, JSOS, Flanders, Ryan, Fincher, Caminiti, Draftee (7)
Rookie: Draftee, Draftee, Draftee (3)

With Boyd and McLennan delisted and Caminiti upgraded, we will need to draft 3 rookies to make up the minimum 4.

The two Irish lads are both Cat B.

The only thing that would change this would be if McLennan was upgraded to the senior list last year, but I haven't found any confirmation of this...

Is there any difference between rookies and senior players anymore? They can all be named can't they?

Would much prefer at least one of Dow or Carroll on the rookie list, nobody else will try and snag them.

 

[St Steady]

hysteria aside,

aleer's worst case senerio is 400k a yr with his current team,

i'd be in tears too if I were him

 

[Dard Ball Get]

They also don’t give a shit when they are getting their percentage. Plenty of clubs have had deals fall apart at the negotiating table.

What it does mean is we still don’t have a Sudanese

 

[phantom13]

Let’s not forget that 8 weeks ago half this board were claiming Ben Williams (Nas manager) was a moustache twirling panto villain holding Nas hostage.

At some point we start to look like the common denominator (whether we are or not).

All player managers seem like bumbling ****wits with egos bigger than the players but that’s the system and it’s pieces. We gotta play on the same box full of piss whether we like it or not

 

[phantom13]

What it does mean is we still don’t have a Sudanese

Did think of you first when I read the deal had fallen apart.

Hope you’re doing okay.

 

[billings2paddy]

Geelong think that deal with curnow is actually going to get done hahahaha

Yep it's ridiculous

 

[gringo2011]

Yeh, again, I’m not saying it’s the end of the world but plenty of players ask their managers about clubs, this leaves a stain, it might just be a tiny one.

Also I can’t name any other club that’s had a deal fall apart quite this spectacularly, so we don’t have any precedent for how bad it might look.

This isn’t bed wetting, if he didn’t make sense I’m glad we walked but we can’t really claim it doesn’t matter at all.

It will blow over in 24 hours and no one will give a shit. Still a chance it gets done too.

 

[hangdog]

There’s certainly an aspect of burning player managers that is real.

Pickering spoke about essentially telling Essendon to go **** themselves over bungling the Dunkley deal.

How big an impact that has is definitely up for debate. It doesn’t seem to linger much but it’s a real thing.

If you’ve watched that doco Amazon prime did player managers seem like the most arrogant morons since real estate agents so I doubt the list managers care about their opinions too much.

“Ooh, the Germans Managers are mad at me. I’m so scared. Ooh, the Germans Managers!”
"Please stop the "pretending you are scared" game, please."

 

[phantom13]

It will blow over in 24 hours and no one will give a shit. Still a chance it gets done too.

I doubt the first bit, I doubt the second bit even more.

 

[gringo2011]

What it does mean is we still don’t have a Sudanese

Be careful how you manifest that one.

 

[Diehard Saint]

A club considering throwing a lifeline to a player not being offered a contract is a bit different.

We like to talk about journos not knowing what they're talking about, but the Aleer situation being repeatedly compared to the Derkson one is embarrassing.

If people say it's shit form, but I dont care. I can honestly respect that.

But trying to act like this is normal just makes us all look stupiddisagr. It makes it look like we possibly changed our mind / weren’t happy with the deal. Either one.Nothing is set in stone until it’s sign

Disagree.
Things change and clubs change their minds / are unhappy with the trade exchange.

Nothing is certain till signed. Players break contracts regularly. This time the shoe is on the other foot - and there isn’t even a contract.

Sorry for Aleer, but he has a contract on offer from the Giants as it stands.
Also, by doing it early, makes sure that the other clubs seeking a backman - Bulldogs and Dees spring to mind, still have a chance to get him, rather than ditching him last minute of trade week.

Things change. The whole comp was up in arms when we sacked Ratts for Ross. I challenge one person to say it wasn’t for the better.