List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part IV

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 4

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
​

 

[The_Steadier]

It’s not a 2 year cap on Butters impact.

Seems pretty clear to me that season 2026 & 2027 are going to be a push to finals with our current list.

Hypothetically, going for butters and trading out long term pieces like Pou and multiple FRDP’s is pushing in on that timeline. Whereas Pou would still be developing.

Obviously we are tilting for a period of sustained success beyond 2027 also, and Butters would still be around, but we’d be giving up other potentially good players with longer careers ahead of them, again hypothetically.

If Nas hadn't gone supersonic this year and we didn't get flanders and TDK- I'd be reluctantly ok with moving pou on in order to get butters.

But our midfield group now is looking far better than it did a year ago.

The hawks have made prelims the last 2 years with an average/servicable midfield.

We can do the same- our midfield isn't a strength, but it's no longer the boulder we've been chained to, dragging us down.

Butters would be great- but we don't need to sell off any A grade prospects for any mid

 

[beside the seaside]

I suspect (and that’s all we’ve got here) we went from red hot and horned up for him to lukewarmly interested after we snagged little SOS.

When GWS asked for more than we wanted to give we were happy to bail on it quicksmart.

We likely would have done it if Gws wanted him gone but when it became clear they were gonna go hard we walked.

The further away we get from it the more clear that looks to me. It’s a saints first decision so I’m good with it

Yeah that's my read on it. We were still willing to take him basically for free as an expensive depth player but weren't willing to give draft capital.

 

[TheJackal]

It's just very interesting that it was all done so fast. That offer is about on the money and that F2nd from GWS would have sufficed for Ryan, yet we gave ours for him and took a 2027 3rd rounder which will be basically a 4th round pick so worthless.
Even with Neddy we probably could have squeezed something back of they'd strung it out a bit. If it ends now then we've overpaid for the sake of haste which is opposite to established SOS form. Just seems a bit odd...

My take. We did our business early with Suns for a few reasons. Most importantly we assured Ned and his management we would get it done quickly. We wanted to set the price for a multi year contracted player, looking at you Geelong. Suns wanted a quick trade to set themselves up for Petracca. I think Suns will help us out once all of their wheeling and dealing is up - I'm hopeful at least - Butler for overs is my hope.

We didn't want Aleer in the end, thats clear as day. We were lucky that we were able to see some exposed form which may not have been quite so obvious in the VFL. I wish Ross didn't 'give the assurance' when he went to Sydney but that could easily have just been media guesswork as well. Our offer unsettled the playing group, it was irresponsible and could've absolutely killed the culture among the kids we have coming through. As bad as the optics are, this will blow over in a week or two. Footy is fickle. We fixed our mistake before it cost us.

Everything points to us having something up our sleeve. Plenty of people have alluded to it. Get the obvious stuff done and out of the way and work in the background for something else and give us time to swoop. Gut feel, but we will be involved all the way to the end of the trade period.

 

[CursingFijian]

Which is worse, not proceeding with a trade for a player you had interest in or telling a guy 1 year into a 5 year deal to jog on ?.

Does anyone think there will be any talk of Sydney ruining Florent’s life, being unprofessional, underhanded etc.

Before I hear any yes but Florent can just say no and has 4 years left, Aleer can just say yes and have 3 years left at gws.

We did commit to Aleer, it’s not fair to say we just had a passing interest. That’s where the distaste in the industry comes from.

It’s still okay to say we are taking a club first approach. But that doesn’t change the fact that someone representing the St Kilda football club looks a little foolish to the Aleer camp.

Gubbys flippant approach to the early press conference would also grate on the Aleer camp.

But like El Presidenté says. We’re not here to meet friendly spiders.

 

[bird_man]

Seems right on the open market, but is a contracted player so I don’t see why the swans would depart with him for a late first.

He’s clearly rated internally (going off bnf performances), and reportedly wants to stay, so doesn’t add up to me.

Grew up in Melbourne, his uncle is BT, other than that can’t see a reason for moving.

Sydney are looking to get currency for Curnow. Sounds like they are open to trading him.

 

[phantom13]

We did commit to Aleer, it’s not fair to say we just had a passing interest. That’s where the distaste in the industry comes from.

It’s still okay to say we are taking a club first approach. But that doesn’t change the fact that someone representing the St Kilda football club looks a little foolish to the Aleer camp.

Gubbys flippant approach to the early press conference would also grate on the Aleer camp.

But like El Presidenté says. We’re not here to meet friendly spiders.

Anyone still claiming a witch hunt or whatever about HOW we did the business is just being silly.

We were brutal in the bail and we’ve copped some blowback. We’re much better off just accepting that and moving on. It is what it is, the outcome is obviously right for us but we’re the villains because of how we did it.

 

[Hayes4PM]

Are we in need of a player like Rowbottom?

Nah. Windhager is our Rowbottom. Should be looking to stack the rest of the midfield with elite kicking (eg. Nas, Sinclair), you can only carry 1 or 2 of the Windhager/Rowbottom types I reckon.

 

[stavro#4]

Anyone still claiming a witch hunt or whatever about HOW we did the business is just being silly.

We were brutal in the bail and we’ve copped some blowback. We’re much better off just accepting that and moving on. It is what it is, the outcome is obviously right for us but we’re the villains because of how we did it.

IF… and I say this hanging onto Tony’s words like the rest of you.

There is something bigger going on, which if we pull off (and it’s good). We will go from villain to genius very quickly and Aleer will move to North as the hard luck but fallen on your feet story.

 

[sufficientintent]

A late first seems about right to me. He's a very good role player but far from a star.

Agreed - he's been great for the Swans (highly underrated in my view)

Sydney would only let him to go if it helped them get currency for Curnow, so unless its a late first or better I think he stays

 

[ScrappyDo]

My take. We did our business early with Suns for a few reasons. Most importantly we assured Ned and his management we would get it done quickly. We wanted to set the price for a multi year contracted player, looking at you Geelong. Suns wanted a quick trade to set themselves up for Petracca. I think Suns will help us out once all of their wheeling and dealing is up - I'm hopeful at least - Butler for overs is my hope.

We didn't want Aleer in the end, thats clear as day. We were lucky that we were able to see some exposed form which may not have been quite so obvious in the VFL. I wish Ross didn't 'give the assurance' when he went to Sydney but that could easily have just been media guesswork as well. Our offer unsettled the playing group, it was irresponsible and could've absolutely killed the culture among the kids we have coming through. As bad as the optics are, this will blow over in a week or two. Footy is fickle. We fixed our mistake before it cost us.

Everything points to us having something up our sleeve. Plenty of people have alluded to it. Get the obvious stuff done and out of the way and work in the background for something else and give us time to swoop. Gut feel, but we will be involved all the way to the end of the trade period.

I've long tended to think the same way, in that unexplained circumstances are an indication of a greater plan at work. However l gave up on that philosophy when it became clear it was a low % winner and the 90% outcome was that people just do dumb shit.
I hope you're right, but I'm not counting on anything from here. Marshall leaving is the most likely at maybe 50/50.

 

[phantom13]

IF… and I say this hanging onto Tony’s words like the rest of you.

There is something bigger going on, which if we pull off (and it’s good). We will go from villain to genius very quickly and Aleer will move to North as the hard luck but fallen on your feet story.

Well still be the villains, we might just become evil geniuses.

 

[Rogue Warrior]

We did commit to Aleer, it’s not fair to say we just had a passing interest. That’s where the distaste in the industry comes from.

It’s still okay to say we are taking a club first approach. But that doesn’t change the fact that someone representing the St Kilda football club looks a little foolish to the Aleer camp.

Gubbys flippant approach to the early press conference would also grate on the Aleer camp.

But like El Presidenté says. We’re not here to meet friendly spiders.

I did hear second hand that the Aleer recruitment and alleged salary was the point of frustration for Wilkie. He was onboard with the other moves

 

[Yawkey way]

We did commit to Aleer, it’s not fair to say we just had a passing interest. That’s where the distaste in the industry comes from.

It’s still okay to say we are taking a club first approach. But that doesn’t change the fact that someone representing the St Kilda football club looks a little foolish to the Aleer camp.

Gubbys flippant approach to the early press conference would also grate on the Aleer camp.

But like El Presidenté says. We’re not here to meet friendly spiders.

That’s the talk but is it true ?.

Talk of a contract isn’t a contract, a verbal indication that you’ll try to get a trade done isn’t a trade.

We have Aleer’s version via his manager and a lot of haters.

 

[SainterinSydney]

IF… and I say this hanging onto Tony’s words like the rest of you.

There is something bigger going on, which if we pull off (and it’s good). We will go from villain to genius very quickly and Aleer will move to North as the hard luck but fallen on your feet story.

I wouldn't mind us completing the set by getting a key position forward who can kick goals to add to the depth in case Max issues.

 

[phantom13]

That’s the talk but is it true ?.

Talk of a contract isn’t a contract, a verbal indication that you’ll try to get a trade done isn’t a trade.

We have Aleer’s version via his manager and a lot of haters.

There’s semantics and there’s this.

We courted him for over a year from many reports. We got him to nominate us (based on a contract offer).

We were into him, we got him interested in us. Picking holes in the contract and trade details only leans into our villainy more.

Plus again, the issue isn’t that a trade didn’t eventuate, the issue is that we bailed at the first point of negotiations

 

[sufficientintent]

I did hear second hand that the Aleer recruitment and alleged salary was the point of frustration for Wilkie. He was onboard with the other moves

I don't think anyone disagrees with Wilkie's frustrations either. Vice Captain, AA a couple of years ago (arguably robbed of a squad nomination this year), and hasn't missed a game since he debuted - he should be one of our highest paid players and was reportedly going to be on the same wage as an average player with 25 games under his belt.

That's the type of unrest we want to avoid and I'm glad we sorted it out quickly

 

[phantom13]

I wouldn't mind us completing the set by getting a key position forward who can kick goals to add to the depth in case Max issues.

No one good enough to replace max is going somewhere as a back up

 

[SainterinSydney]

No one good enough to replace max is going somewhere as a back up

My preference would be someone to play alongside him. I wouldn't be against Mitch Lewis. I meant more they could then be main foil if Max went down.

However, maybe we have hopes in Keeler, Hammer etc to fill that role.

 

[SaintSteele9]

The best thing the club could do for Mattaes would be to hook him up with Nick Riewoldt as a mentor.

Its rare to have such overcommitted, almost OCD levels of intensity in anyone and those two are both the same. Rooey made it work and would be a great sounding board for Pou.

Its one thing to simply tell him to slow down and cut back, its another to hear it from someone who has lived it throughout 336 games.

Remember watching a game on TV and they tracked Rooey in the pregame - covered something like 9km just running around on his own hours before the bounce the absolute madman

 

[Yawkey way]

Mate, between Curnow and McKay they've missed that many games it's not funny.

He has had plenty of opportunities to have an impact forward. You only have to have watched him attempt to play as a key forward and you know that he's not suited to that role. It's not gonna change at St Kilda.

40% of the game in the forward 50 is too much for TDK. The only way it works is if Marshall plays as a genuine forward that chops out in the ruck. If we are doing that we may as well play Caminiti and make hay while the sun shines with Marshall.

Fingers crossed Geelong come to the party.

I can’t agree on this.

TDK is a big mobile man who can take a good pack mark and mark on a lead.

He’s also a good kick, quite accurate with good technique.

How that translates into not suited to the roll I’ll never know. Mason Cox has been very effective at times for collingwood and is half the player TDK is.

It’s the same with Marshall there is no reason at all why he can’t be an effective tall forward. If you’re structured properly maybe a huge part of his role is just bringing the ball to the ground and making sure a key tall has to match up against him.

I’ll be happy trading Marshall when the trade clearly makes us a better team. Imo until then it’s just a cop out and makes no sense, I’m over doing lousy deals to look relevant and I hope the club is.

As for the talk of soldo, we have got to be kidding if we do that.

Anyway thankfully trade period will be over in a few days and then we’ll see.

 

[saintmike65]

My take. We did our business early with Suns for a few reasons. Most importantly we assured Ned and his management we would get it done quickly. We wanted to set the price for a multi year contracted player, looking at you Geelong. Suns wanted a quick trade to set themselves up for Petracca. I think Suns will help us out once all of their wheeling and dealing is up - I'm hopeful at least - Butler for overs is my hope.

We didn't want Aleer in the end, thats clear as day. We were lucky that we were able to see some exposed form which may not have been quite so obvious in the VFL. I wish Ross didn't 'give the assurance' when he went to Sydney but that could easily have just been media guesswork as well. Our offer unsettled the playing group, it was irresponsible and could've absolutely killed the culture among the kids we have coming through. As bad as the optics are, this will blow over in a week or two. Footy is fickle. We fixed our mistake before it cost us.

Everything points to us having something up our sleeve. Plenty of people have alluded to it. Get the obvious stuff done and out of the way and work in the background for something else and give us time to swoop. Gut feel, but we will be involved all the way to the end of the trade period.

You may get your wish re: overs for Butler

 

[DT_35]

As much of a w***er he is, I wouldn’t be completely against getting the big yank if Marshall leaves. Much rather him over Soldo. Can cover King if he’s injured, or can plonk him in the ruck with the new rule changes if TDK gets injured.

 

[Lennylegs]

As much of a w***er he is, I wouldn’t be completely against getting the big yank if Marshall leaves. Much rather him over Soldo. Can cover King if he’s injured, or can plonk him in the ruck with the new rule changes if TDK gets injured.

That's hideous.

 

[AFLOnline]

As much of a w***er he is, I wouldn’t be completely against getting the big yank if Marshall leaves. Much rather him over Soldo. Can cover King if he’s injured, or can plonk him in the ruck with the new rule changes if TDK gets injured.

I don’t hate it. First point of call would be sending him to Dr. Meadownick though

Or at least have it written in his contract he needs to wear contacts on game day

 

[Saintos The ITK]

Anything new to moan or cheer about????