List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion

[Tom14]

Essentially, teams like Adelaide place a stronger value on raw picks because we have a narrower way of bringing in young talent than a team like Brisbane. We could go tit-for-tat on whether Academy processes are fair but that's a separate argument - and it is the rules we operate under - so I'm not going to argue that here. You've benefited from the rules, as all clubs should.

The Crows will take Cal in the PSD for nothing and move on, as I'm sure Brisbane will when they take another Academy player next month.

Do you think that Cal is a better/worse player than Ben Ainsworth, Tylar Young and Connor Budarick?

 

[Lace Out]

Feel sorry for Cal…Adelaide’s behaviour in trying to get him on the cheap will be really stressing him out

 

[pjcrows]

Do you think that Cal is a better/worse player than Ben Ainsworth, Tylar Young and Connor Budarick?

I think he's better than all three. What's your point?

 

[Nathan Barley]

Essentially, teams like Adelaide place a stronger value on raw picks because we have a narrower way of bringing in young talent than a team like Brisbane. We could go tit-for-tat on whether Academy processes are fair but that's a separate argument - and it is the rules we operate under - so I'm not going to argue that here. You've benefited from the rules, as all clubs would. You've also drafted/traded very well separate from Academy/FS recently, which is a big part of your flags.

The Crows will take Cal in the PSD for nothing and move on, as I'm sure Brisbane will when they take another Academy player next month.

And the crows get guys like Rankine and Dawson having the pull of going back home

Dont act like the Crows dont have any advantages

 

[SizeMatters]

The melts on the crows board are delicious.

And as I said there, this was never about what was reasonable, it's about sending a message for the years to come, as many of our squad will be approached.

It's saying to the other clubs 'If you don't play our game, we will call your bluff', we're just sending a warning, as an example, as against gaining a few picks that really aren't worth a lot.

Eh. Don’t buy that. I guess it makes other clubs “scared” for as long as Dom is around. He could leave next year and if anything it’s tarnished the clubs reputation a little.

 

[pjcrows]

And the crows get guys like Rankine and Dawson having the pull of going back home

Dont act like the Crows dont have any advantages

For which we need to use 1st Round capital to secure, not late "points". You've essentially just made my point for me.

 

[Tom14]

I think he's better than all three. What's your point?

Picks those three were traded for: pick 29, pick 33, pick 37.

Crom's future second is at best pick 33ish. Young and Budarick were uncontracted, Ainsworth was contracted but a salary dump.

Offering the same trade value for Tylar Young plus a future third is not a reasonable deal.

Adelaide is within their rights to walk Cal through the PSD if they wish - frankly it is a bit ridiculous that he isn't a free agent but don't pretend that 'the Crows have a different value on draft picks than you do' is really relevant when you compare it to the picks far worse players got traded for this year.

I get why the Crom didn't want to slide from pick 16 to 23 (even though that 23 likely comes in a bit once bids get matched). But if true that our counter-offer was we wanted two future seconds, that seems pretty reasonable to me!

 

[Dalions]

And the crows get guys like Rankine and Dawson having the pull of going back home

Dont act like the Crows dont have any advantages

Plus an extra home game with the Gathering

 

[Tom14]

Eh. Don’t buy that. I guess it makes other clubs “scared” for as long as Dom is around. He could leave next year and if anything it’s tarnished the clubs reputation a little.

Did it tarnish the Giants and Suns' reputation when players went through the PSD previously?

Crom only offered pick 40 for Hately, which is pretty much what their future 2 ends up as.

 

[SizeMatters]

Feel for Cal mostly in all this. Say what you want about both teams as to who was ultimately at fault for the deal not going through, but it leaves a bit of a sour taste in the mouth now from both parties for a guy who played a huge role in successive finals (particularly GFs), which ultimately lead to him becoming a dual premiership player with us.

My exact thoughts. He busted his gut on peanuts for this club and wanted his pay and family in the twighlight of his career. It’s a dog act by both Crows and Lions IMO. But probably more so Crows who have been engaged for almost a whole season and just wouldn’t value him enough for any of those very reasonable trades Dom apparently put forward.

 

[SizeMatters]

Did it tarnish the Giants and Suns' reputation when players went through the PSD previously?

Crom only offered pick 40 for Hately, which is pretty much what their future 2 ends up as.

It’s tarnished both clubs reputation. Supporters are upset on both sides but arguably Lions are more upset and disappointed in how it all played out. That’s not a reputational hit?

 

[Nathan Barley]

For which we need to use 1st Round capital to secure, not late "points". You've essentially just made my point for me.

Shouldve walked them into the PSD

If we had the likes of Rankine and Dawson returning to queensland thered be no academy

 

[pjcrows]

Picks those three were traded for: pick 29, pick 33, pick 37.

Crom's future second is at best pick 33ish. Young and Budarick were uncontracted, Ainsworth was contracted but a salary dump.

Offering the same trade value for Tylar Young plus a future third is not a reasonable deal.

Adelaide is within their rights to walk Cal through the PSD if they wish - frankly it is a bit ridiculous that he isn't a free agent but don't pretend that 'the Crows have a different value on draft picks than you do' is really relevant when you compare it to the picks far worse players got traded for this year.

I get why the Crom didn't want to slide from pick 16 to 23 (even though that 23 likely comes in a bit once bids get matched). But if true that our counter-offer was we wanted two future seconds, that seems pretty reasonable to me!

"Player X is better than Player Y, therefore Player X should be traded for a better pick than Player Y"

Trades don't work like that, in any sport.

 

[Tom14]

My exact thoughts. He busted his gut on peanuts for this club and wanted his pay and family in the twighlight of his career. It’s a dog act by both Crows and Lions IMO. But probably more so Crows who have been engaged for almost a whole season and just wouldn’t value him enough for any of those very reasonable trades Dom apparently put forward.

He'll get to the crom just fine. Cal will be ok - bleating and whining from all supporters on here is ultimately irrelevant.

 

[Nathan Barley]

It’s tarnished both clubs reputation. Supporters are upset on both sides but arguably Lions are more upset and disappointed in how it all played out. That’s not a reputational hit?

I dont think you're reading the room

 

[Nathan Barley]

"Player X is better than Player Y, therefore Player X should be traded for a better pick than Player Y"

Trades don't work like that, in any sport.

No they work like they did yesterday. Crows offer picks that neithed club values as much as 5 years of quality football from a 2 time premiership player and the Lions dont accept

 

[SizeMatters]

I dont think youre reading the room

I think you aren’t comprehending what I’m alluding to. I have not even read any posts just providing my 2c. I’m taking this from the players POV and the way the clubs have managed this process. I don’t really give a **** about picks and fair value. I care that neither party could come to an agreement.

Now Cal and his family are unreasonably stressed. I get that he most likely gets to Crows but it’s unnecessary.

 

[Tom14]

"Player X is better than Player Y, therefore Player X should be traded for a better pick than Player Y"

Trades don't work like that, in any sport.

Of course they don't, but your suggestion that 'picks matter more for the crows because you have rorts' has no relevance on whether the crows offer was reasonable or worth accepting.

I'm not sure why you've come on the Lions board to argue - you'll get the player for free and keep your very valuable future second rounder. Haven't you won?

 

[Dalions]

He'll get to the crom just fine. Cal will be ok - bleating and whining from all supporters on here is ultimately irrelevant.

I don’t really think there is any whining going on about n here really.
All bar Crows supporters trying to justify their incompetence.

 

[pjcrows]

Shouldve walked them into the PSD

If we had the likes of Rankine and Dawson returning to queensland thered be no academy

Why would we walk them to the PSD if we've offered an agreed value? Again, you're proving my point. Teams with easy Academy access value draft picks differently to teams without.

If we could get Rankine and Dawson for a handful of 4th rounders we would be fine without an Academy too!

 

[Surly Boy]

I think you aren’t comprehending what I’m alluding to. I have not even read any posts just providing my 2c. I’m taking this from the players POV and the way the clubs have managed this process. I don’t really give a **** about picks and fair value. I care that neither party could come to an agreement.

Now Cal and his family are unreasonably stressed. I get that he most likely gets to Crows but it’s unnecessary.

Sadly for Cal, the Lions obviously thought it was necessary.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Why would we walk them to the PSD if we've offered an agreed value? Again, you're proving my point. Teams with easy Academy access value draft picks differently to teams without.

If we could get Rankine and Dawson for a handful of 4th rounders we would be fine without an Academy too!

Because you can get them for unders like you were trying to for Cal

You realise if we could still get academy kids for late picks the trade probably wouldve happened?

 

[pjcrows]

No they work like they did yesterday. Crows offer picks that neithed club values as much as 5 years of quality football from a 2 time premiership player and the Lions dont accept

Neither club values? We absolutely value our picks, and need to. This is literally my point.

 

[Nathan Barley]

I think you aren’t comprehending what I’m alluding to. I have not even read any posts just providing my 2c. I’m taking this from the players POV and the way the clubs have managed this process. I don’t really give a **** about picks and fair value. I care that neither party could come to an agreement.

Now Cal and his family are unreasonably stressed. I get that he most likely gets to Crows but it’s unnecessary.

Yep thats why most are pointing the finger at his manager. The managers do the bulk of the legwork in negotiation and he shouldve seen months ahead that the crows couldnt satisfy a trade without trading their first rounder

 

[SizeMatters]

Sadly for Cal, the Lions obviously thought it was necessary.

I’m obviously invested in First Nations being one myself. And I understand the pull of family and the support you get from those who just understand. It’s a shame on both clubs in how this played out. He could (albeit unlikely) be heading to WA! To mine, it’s just lack of respect by both clubs.

Anyways I’ll stop. Seems the human element is lost on a few here. Which is fair as the old saying goes “no one is bigger than the club”.