List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion

[Section 5]

Need to fix his body up first. We are still living through 2 years of Tom Doedee trying to get on the park - so we aren't running some kind of magic rehabilitation center either.

Premierships are masking our mistakes so we hope Allen/Draper has a better run than Doedee.

Very, very different injuries between Allen/Doedee. Oscar will be right for day 1 preseason assuming no new setbacks.

I hope Allen will be okay to go preseason, but he does have injury history the last 2 years
Just 11 games in 2024 and 12 again in 2025.
Not just one issue either which is a worry
I would say the Eagles would be over the moon to get pick 2.
If that happens the Lions will have put forward a very big contract which is a big gamble for our future cap in my opinion.
Hopefully everything falls into place, and he has a good 3 years at the Lions

2024

“His knee has degenerated”: Worrying health reports emerge about Eagles skipper Allen

“He's probably got a knee of someone in their late 30s, early 40s.”

sen.com.au

The star forward has flown overseas this off-season to seek specialist after battling knee, foot and shoulder issues in recent years, with his knee, in particular, causing him to miss months of footy during the 2024 season.

According to Vlahos, Allen played through some injury troubles in his 11 AFL games last campaign and has since been told that his knee has degenerated somewhat and resembles a knee of someone in their late 30s or early 40s despite the forward being just 25 years old.

2025

Season over for Eagles co-skipper after undergoing surgery

Oscar Allen has undergone patella tendon surgery and won't play again this season

www.afl.com.au

WEST Coast co-captain Oscar Allen will officially miss the rest of the season after opting to undergo knee surgery while recovering from his calf and Achilles tendon injury.

Allen damaged his calf and Achilles during last week's loss to Carlton, with the Eagles initially holding out a slither of hope he could still return this year.

"Oscar has been dealing with some knee soreness related to his patella tendon," Eagles general manager of football Gavin
Bell said.

The Eagles initially suspected Allen had been struck down by a plantaris injury when he collapsed innocuously behind play, requiring assistance from two trainers to leave the ground in the final quarter, but subsequent scans revealed minor Achilles tendon damage as well as a left calf issue.

 

[eaglevision]

I hope Allen will be okay to go preseason, but he does have injury history the last 2 years
Just 11 games in 2024 and 12 again in 2025.
Not just one issue either which is a worry
I would say the Eagles would be over the moon to get pick 2.
If that happens the Lions will have put forward a very big contract which is a big gamble for our future cap in my opinion.
Hopefully everything falls into place, and he has a good 3 years at the Lions

2024

“His knee has degenerated”: Worrying health reports emerge about Eagles skipper Allen

“He's probably got a knee of someone in their late 30s, early 40s.”

sen.com.au

The star forward has flown overseas this off-season to seek specialist after battling knee, foot and shoulder issues in recent years, with his knee, in particular, causing him to miss months of footy during the 2024 season.

According to Vlahos, Allen played through some injury troubles in his 11 AFL games last campaign and has since been told that his knee has degenerated somewhat and resembles a knee of someone in their late 30s or early 40s despite the forward being just 25 years old.

2025

Season over for Eagles co-skipper after undergoing surgery

Oscar Allen has undergone patella tendon surgery and won't play again this season

www.afl.com.au

WEST Coast co-captain Oscar Allen will officially miss the rest of the season after opting to undergo knee surgery while recovering from his calf and Achilles tendon injury.

Allen damaged his calf and Achilles during last week's loss to Carlton, with the Eagles initially holding out a slither of hope he could still return this year.

"Oscar has been dealing with some knee soreness related to his patella tendon," Eagles general manager of football Gavin
Bell said.

The Eagles initially suspected Allen had been struck down by a plantaris injury when he collapsed innocuously behind play, requiring assistance from two trainers to leave the ground in the final quarter, but subsequent scans revealed minor Achilles tendon damage as well as a left calf issue.

Vlahos is WA Sam McClure. Disregard. His (new) issue this year was his Achillies/calf, which has recovered well. He’ll be a star at the Lions.

 

[Coastal Lion]

You guys are going to be really happy with Oscar he will draw the best key back from
Morris/Gallop and you’ll see just how good his leading and hands are with the quality of delivery from your midfield which is what we were unable to give him.

I was talking to an Eagles fan yesterday who said the same.
Hands and leads elite also said he will run all day

 

[buttermuffs]

AI is not "needed" on the Essendon board but i think it should be okay on the Lions one
There are enough smart people on Lions BF to pick up anything that does not look correct
Or in this case a few laughing emoji

I had my first ever post deleted on the Essendon board just got the notification below.
The information provided by AI on why Draper was band 2 and not band one was correct.
Correct in as much as we fans don't know contract $ nor does AI.
But the explanation was correct.

I was just replying to a poster that thought pick 20 was just not fair.

View attachment 2446832

However, i want to point out that when i first asked AI the Draper question it was not all correct. Mostly yes
I pointed out to AI (i have not named it yet) it was not band 1 as it mentioned, but band 2,
AI then agreed it was indeed band 2 and adjusted its explanation which was basically the same but mentioned band 2 and expanded the explanation on why it was band 2.

AI is dogshit and shouldn’t be here either. Essendon Board correct here to get rid of it.

Whole point of forums is for people to talk to people. Inserting an AI response that will bullshit something when it doesn’t know is antithetical to the whole thing.

 

[buttermuffs]

I hope Allen will be okay to go preseason, but he does have injury history the last 2 years
Just 11 games in 2024 and 12 again in 2025.
Not just one issue either which is a worry
I would say the Eagles would be over the moon to get pick 2.
If that happens the Lions will have put forward a very big contract which is a big gamble for our future cap in my opinion.
Hopefully everything falls into place, and he has a good 3 years at the Lions

2024

“His knee has degenerated”: Worrying health reports emerge about Eagles skipper Allen

“He's probably got a knee of someone in their late 30s, early 40s.”

sen.com.au

The star forward has flown overseas this off-season to seek specialist after battling knee, foot and shoulder issues in recent years, with his knee, in particular, causing him to miss months of footy during the 2024 season.

According to Vlahos, Allen played through some injury troubles in his 11 AFL games last campaign and has since been told that his knee has degenerated somewhat and resembles a knee of someone in their late 30s or early 40s despite the forward being just 25 years old.

2025

Season over for Eagles co-skipper after undergoing surgery

Oscar Allen has undergone patella tendon surgery and won't play again this season

www.afl.com.au

WEST Coast co-captain Oscar Allen will officially miss the rest of the season after opting to undergo knee surgery while recovering from his calf and Achilles tendon injury.

Allen damaged his calf and Achilles during last week's loss to Carlton, with the Eagles initially holding out a slither of hope he could still return this year.

"Oscar has been dealing with some knee soreness related to his patella tendon," Eagles general manager of football Gavin
Bell said.

The Eagles initially suspected Allen had been struck down by a plantaris injury when he collapsed innocuously behind play, requiring assistance from two trainers to leave the ground in the final quarter, but subsequent scans revealed minor Achilles tendon damage as well as a left calf issue.

Funny thing is that I’ve heard plenty on Harris having knee issues as well. Tall guys need knees less imo, less ground work and more aerial contests.

 

[BangyBangy]

It always will be BangyBangy - our achievement is due to the depth we built via drafting and youngsters stepping in to perform at the highest degree very early in their career. 6 under 22s carried us to a flag is remarkable in itself.

Let's not use that to cover our trading gaps though - we have gone in with picking up injured players on the cheap as a strategy. There'll be hits and misses. We have no other option as our draft hand is busy with more youngsters coming through so free agency is our only route.

I don't hate the approach but let's not gloss over the failings either. If we overdo it and have a longer list in the injury ward holding up the cap space as well, then youngsters will start sliding out on the other side. Tough balancing act and that's why I don't envy the people who are in charge of it.

I just think it's a tad harsh to call the Doedee trade a mistake. Speculative yes, but you won't get them all right, no club does.

Keep in mind, back when that deal was agreed to Wilmot had probably played less than 10 games & Daniel Rich was clearly in his last year.

If we entice Alex Johnson this year out of retirement, I'll agree with you that it was a mistake from the outset.

 

[Sproj]

Well let's have a look at the trade/Free Agent hits / misses during the Fagan years (from 2017):

Cameron (Inspired)
Neale (Inspired)
Daniher (Injured - Major Success)
Dunkley (Slam dunk - get it?)
Fort (Major Success)
Ah Chee (Major Success)
McCarthy (Injured - success until last year)
Lyons (Success)
Hodge (Success)
McKenna (Success)
Adams (Injured - success until the head knocks, unrelated to existing injuries)

Day (On The Fence)
Joyce (On The Fence)
Birchall (On The Fence)

Allen (Unknown obviously)
Draper (Unknown obviously)

Ryan (Fail)
Gunston (Fail)
Ellis-Yeoman (Fail)
Cockatoo-Collins (Fail)
Doedee (Injured - Fail)

Definite overall win to the recruitment team, some absolutely inspired hits - particularly the top 6. Couple that with our very impressive drafting successes v fails, I'm backing our team to make the right call more often than not (Up to pick 40 unless a major success outside):

Rayner (Inspired)
McCluggage (Inspired)
Berry (Inspired)
Bailey (Inspired)
Starcevich (Inspired)
Wilmott (Inspired)
Lohmann (Inspired)
W.Ashcroft (Inspired)
Fletcher (Inspired)
Morris (Inspired)
Payne (Inspired)
L.Ashcroft (Major Success)
Marshall (Major Success)
Answerth (Major Success)
Gallop (Major Success)
McLachlan (Success)
K.Coleman (Success)

Beecken (On The Fence)
Lloyd (On The Fence)
Torrent (On The Fence)
Zakostelsky (On The Fence)
T.Berry (On The Fence)
Robertson (On The Fence)

E.Smith (Massive Fail)
Witherden (Fail)
Cox (Fail)
B.Smith (Fail)
B.Coleman (Fail)
Craven (Fail)
Wooller (Fail)
Ballenden (Fail)
Joyce (Fail)

 

[GenericUsername202]

Blake coleman is a funny one, because he was rated far higher than Kiddy in his draft year, but you wouldn't have known it when he came to the club.

 

[Nunez]

Well let's have a look at the trade/Free Agent hits / misses during the Fagan years (from 2017):

Cameron (Inspired)
Neale (Inspired)
Daniher (Injured - Major Success)
Dunkley (Slam dunk - get it?)
Fort (Major Success)
Ah Chee (Major Success)
McCarthy (Injured - success until last year)
Lyons (Success)
Hodge (Success)
McKenna (Success)
Adams (Injured - success until the head knocks, unrelated to existing injuries)

Day (On The Fence)
Joyce (On The Fence)
Birchall (On The Fence)

Allen (Unknown obviously)
Draper (Unknown obviously)

Ryan (Fail)
Gunston (Fail)
Ellis-Yeoman (Fail)
Cockatoo-Collins (Fail)
Doedee (Injured - Fail)

Definite overall win to the recruitment team, some absolutely inspired hits - particularly the top 6. Couple that with our very impressive drafting successes v fails, I'm backing our team to make the right call more often than not (Up to pick 40 unless a major success outside):

Rayner (Inspired)
McCluggage (Inspired)
Berry (Inspired)
Bailey (Inspired)
Starcevich (Inspired)
Wilmott (Inspired)
Lohmann (Inspired)
W.Ashcroft (Inspired)
Fletcher (Inspired)
Morris (Inspired)
Payne (Inspired)
L.Ashcroft (Major Success)
Marshall (Major Success)
Answerth (Major Success)
Gallop (Major Success)
McLachlan (Success)
K.Coleman (Success)

Beecken (On The Fence)
Lloyd (On The Fence)
Torrent (On The Fence)
Zakostelsky (On The Fence)
T.Berry (On The Fence)
Robertson (On The Fence)

E.Smith (Massive Fail)
Witherden (Fail)
Cox (Fail)
B.Smith (Fail)
B.Coleman (Fail)
Craven (Fail)
Wooller (Fail)
Ballenden (Fail)
Joyce (Fail)

Day was 100% a success. Best available and played his role and ultimately protected young Ty from getting cooked by finals.

 

[Nunez]

Blake coleman is a funny one, because he was rated far higher than Kiddy in his draft year, but you wouldn't have known it when he came to the club.

Professionalism and Blake didn't go hand in hand.

 

[M Malice]

Well let's have a look at the trade/Free Agent hits / misses during the Fagan years (from 2017):

Cameron (Inspired)
Neale (Inspired)
Daniher (Injured - Major Success)
Dunkley (Slam dunk - get it?)
Fort (Major Success)
Ah Chee (Major Success)
McCarthy (Injured - success until last year)
Lyons (Success)
Hodge (Success)
McKenna (Success)
Adams (Injured - success until the head knocks, unrelated to existing injuries)

Day (On The Fence)
Joyce (On The Fence)
Birchall (On The Fence)

Allen (Unknown obviously)
Draper (Unknown obviously)

Ryan (Fail)
Gunston (Fail)
Ellis-Yeoman (Fail)
Cockatoo-Collins (Fail)
Doedee (Injured - Fail)

Definite overall win to the recruitment team, some absolutely inspired hits - particularly the top 6. Couple that with our very impressive drafting successes v fails, I'm backing our team to make the right call more often than not (Up to pick 40 unless a major success outside):

Rayner (Inspired)
McCluggage (Inspired)
Berry (Inspired)
Bailey (Inspired)
Starcevich (Inspired)
Wilmott (Inspired)
Lohmann (Inspired)
W.Ashcroft (Inspired)
Fletcher (Inspired)
Morris (Inspired)
Payne (Inspired)
L.Ashcroft (Major Success)
Marshall (Major Success)
Answerth (Major Success)
Gallop (Major Success)
McLachlan (Success)
K.Coleman (Success)

Beecken (On The Fence)
Lloyd (On The Fence)
Torrent (On The Fence)
Zakostelsky (On The Fence)
T.Berry (On The Fence)
Robertson (On The Fence)

E.Smith (Massive Fail)
Witherden (Fail)
Cox (Fail)
B.Smith (Fail)
B.Coleman (Fail)
Craven (Fail)
Wooller (Fail)
Ballenden (Fail)
Joyce (Fail)

Overall at first glance that is an exceptional strike rate, could not imagine any other club doing that well in that period of time.

 

[T Rick]

Funny thing is that I’ve heard plenty on Harris having knee issues as well. Tall guys need knees less imo, less ground work and more aerial contests.

Harris looked cooked a couple of years ago and Zorko was banged up as well...three years later and both are 3 times grand finalists and two time premiers.

 

[Section 5]

AI is dogshit and shouldn’t be here either. Essendon Board correct here to get rid of it.

Whole point of forums is for people to talk to people. Inserting an AI response that will bullshit something when it doesn’t know is antithetical to the whole thing.

Well, it's the future weather people like it or not. It is just another advance in technology.
I did point out it was wrong in one aspect, but it will learn as it goes.
And internet searches are just one aspect of AI

We may talk to people, but the people on this forum do use media to support their point of view all the time.
Even the media is wrong on a semi regular basis.
Talking heads on footy shows are regularly ridiculed on here as being wrong, stupid etc.
Facebook/Instragram/X regularly posted on BF forums, but that does not mean it's correct information

I will also point out that people (posters) posts things that are incorrect, in dispute or just wrong including myself occasionally.
Posters on here quickly pick you up on something that's not quite right which is great.

Do i think AI will be good or bad in the future i can't answer that.
Enormous amounts of money are being invested in this area worldwide. See a non-AI generated ABC article below.

The AI bubble is threatening to burst. That could be good for Australia

Slowed progress in AI is narrowing the gap between big tech's proprietary models and their cheaper, open source rivals.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Hollow Knight]

Harris looked cooked a couple of years ago and Zorko was banged up as well...three years later and both are 3 times grand finalists and two time premiers.

Gardiner too. I thought his body was absolutely ruined years ago and that he'd retire by 27, and that was before he did his ACL.

Now he's a premiership player who dominated the Coleman medallist in the big dance.

 

[Section 5]

Funny thing is that I’ve heard plenty on Harris having knee issues as well. Tall guys need knees less imo, less ground work and more aerial contests.

Don't remember Harris with knee issues.
But even if he did, he has been able to play most games unlike Allen
Harris missed 5 games in 2018 after that Cameron hit see below.
Missed 1 H & A game in 2019 a late withdrawal R23 with hamstring tightness.
Missed 2 games in the covid year 2020 with a hamstring injury
From 2021: He has played 23, 24, 26, 26 & 27 games

 

[GOTHELIONS16]

We have the Morris, Hipwood, Gallop combo for years to come. Draper good resting forward as second ruck to Fort. Why are we spending big bucks on an injury-prone Allen? No longer a need. Money better spent retaining our young talent.

 

[SpecialBruce]

Doedee was a risk that unfortunately didn't pay off. While paying him an extra two years at his price where he won't play senior games will hurt, but it was a risk worth taking.

Oscar is a need and a risk worth taking. If it pays off, we will win the next 3 flags, minimum while Gallop and Morris continue developing while not getting the number one back. If it doesn't pay off, so be it.

This move, if it works, makes us unstoppable.

 

[davemc_lions]

Day was 100% a success. Best available and played his role and ultimately protected young Ty from getting cooked by finals.

Also Joyce been there as a emergency break glass guy
I think people forget he filled gaps in 23 and 24 for us. Played with a broken jaw as well if I remember.

Linc, Coleman and Doedee not played basically 2 year for us. Hope they all get through a great pre season

 

[M Malice]

Also Joyce been there as a emergency break glass guy
I think people forget he filled gaps in 23 and 24 for us. Played with a broken jaw as well if I remember.

Linc, Coleman and Doedee not played basically 2 year for us. Hope they all get through a great pre season

Darragh Joyce I agree.

Tom Joyce was a fail.

 

[Section 5]

Well let's have a look at the trade/Free Agent hits / misses during the Fagan years (from 2017):

Cameron (Inspired)
Neale (Inspired)
Daniher (Injured - Major Success)
Dunkley (Slam dunk - get it?)
Fort (Major Success)
Ah Chee (Major Success)
McCarthy (Injured - success until last year)
Lyons (Success)
Hodge (Success)
McKenna (Success)
Adams (Injured - success until the head knocks, unrelated to existing injuries)

Day (On The Fence)
Joyce (On The Fence)
Birchall (On The Fence)

Allen (Unknown obviously)
Draper (Unknown obviously)

Ryan (Fail)
Gunston (Fail)
Ellis-Yeoman (Fail)
Cockatoo-Collins (Fail)
Doedee (Injured - Fail)

Definite overall win to the recruitment team, some absolutely inspired hits - particularly the top 6. Couple that with our very impressive drafting successes v fails, I'm backing our team to make the right call more often than not (Up to pick 40 unless a major success outside):

Rayner (Inspired)
McCluggage (Inspired)
Berry (Inspired)
Bailey (Inspired)
Starcevich (Inspired)
Wilmott (Inspired)
Lohmann (Inspired)
W.Ashcroft (Inspired)
Fletcher (Inspired)
Morris (Inspired)
Payne (Inspired)
L.Ashcroft (Major Success)
Marshall (Major Success)
Answerth (Major Success)
Gallop (Major Success)
McLachlan (Success)
K.Coleman (Success)

Beecken (On The Fence)
Lloyd (On The Fence)
Torrent (On The Fence)
Zakostelsky (On The Fence)
T.Berry (On The Fence)
Robertson (On The Fence)

E.Smith (Massive Fail)
Witherden (Fail)
Cox (Fail)
B.Smith (Fail)
B.Coleman (Fail)
Craven (Fail)
Wooller (Fail)
Ballenden (Fail)
Joyce (Fail)

Overall, it has been a great recruiting haul over quite a few years
The reason we have been in the last three GF and in contention for many years
Just about all of those came to the Lions with no injuries

Who did we pick up with an injury history from say 2017 and how did they go with the Lions.

Daniher: Essendon always maintained Daniher was free of injury when he arrived at the Lions.
He played 24 games in his first season so that rings true to me.

McCarthy: Defiantly a success. Pretty much did not miss a game with us till his last ACL.

Ellis-Yolmen: 9 AFL + 3VFL. Did not really get him right.
N Cockatoo: 15 AFL + 43 VFL. We got him playing just not good enough
T Doedee: 1 AFL + 13 (12 in 2025) VFL. Got him playing in 2025 but not good enough to play other than 1 game.
Sam Day: 13 AFL + 4 VFL. Good enough to fill a hole this year so a success in that regard

Out of this group of 6, only Daniher and Doedee were paid good initial contracts.

If you include Daniher the success rate for injured players coming to Lions is okay but nothing groundbreaking.
Take Daniher out of the equation, and it drops off a lot.

 

[BangyBangy]

We have the Morris, Hipwood, Gallop combo for years to come. Draper good resting forward as second ruck to Fort. Why are we spending big bucks on an injury-prone Allen? No longer a need. Money better spent retaining our young talent.

So you're saying that now Gallop has shown some glimpses, we should renege on a deal we agreed to at the start of season.

What could possibly go wrong conducting business in such a manner.....

 

[dlanod]

Funny thing is that I’ve heard plenty on Harris having knee issues as well. Tall guys need knees less imo, less ground work and more aerial contests.

As a tall guy with a ruined knee, trust me when I say a bum knee absolutely impacts aerial work - it can make it hard to get up and also concerns about landing can really play on the mind.

 

[the rookie]

Look if we’re honest about where we are at as a club in terms of performance yet strangely having a glut of good KPFs would we rather pick 2 or Oscar?

The club clearly wanted the former and made offers to Oscar appropriately. That’s fine and reasonable.

What I don’t like is the lack of transparency with Oscar and hanging him out to dry after exploring his options which we clearly wanted him to do.

Oscar is not a leader in my view but was voted in by his team mates. He is however, an outstanding person. Diligent, coachable and absolute class with the kids at community days. I wish Oscar every success at Brisbane and would be delighted if he won a flag with you guys. No hard feelings here whatsoever, just unfortunate timing in a rebuild.

Thanks. Appreciate your insights.

 

[mattsmob]

We have the Morris, Hipwood, Gallop combo for years to come. Draper good resting forward as second ruck to Fort. Why are we spending big bucks on an injury-prone Allen? No longer a need. Money better spent retaining our young talent.

Allen was on track to being the next big thing as a key forward before the injuries. We also just played a full season with either Day or Oscar as a key forward. That alone is enough to bring him in using only cap space

 

[SpecialBruce]

I will also say we got lucky with Gallop and Morris.

You can't expect them to be good over a whole season. We are in our window. We need help to help them. Oscar brings that