List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion

[Nathan Barley]

Neither club values? We absolutely value our picks, and need to. This is literally my point.

So then you cant offer shit that the other club doesnt want and expect to get a guy who will probably give you 100 games of high quality football. Something a late second round pick isnt likely to do

Do you go to buy an iphone and say i value money more than Apple so I'm offering you $500?

Maybe we value Cal more

 

[BigCat2]

That presser with Ben Williams and the Adelaide list manager was just plain embarrassing. Adelaide want him, are forking out a hefty contract for him, yet don’t want to pay for it.

Adelaide and his manager owe Ah Chee an apology.

No matter how negotiations go or fail, whether you like them it not, once the trade period or negotiations end, clubs and managers need to maintain a working relationship going forward.

Terribly unprofessional to be fronting with one club's list manager/football manager in this setting.

 

[Dalions]

If we could get Rankine and Dawson for a handful of 4th rounders we would be fine without an Academy too!

We have always paid fair value in trades.

 

[Nathan Barley]

I’m obviously invested in First Nations being one myself. And I understand the pull of family and the support you get from those who just understand. It’s a shame on both clubs in how this played out. He could (albeit unlikely) be heading to WA! To mine, it’s just lack of respect by both clubs.

Anyways I’ll stop. Seems the human element is lost on a few here. Which is fair as the old saying goes “no one is bigger than the club”.

50 internet points to you Sizey. Thanks for enlightening us ans congrats on your nobel peace prize

You just said you hadnt read all the posts but then assume nobody is showing empathy to Cal. Good for you

 

[pjcrows]

Yep thats why most are pointing the finger at his manager. The managers do the bulk of the legwork in negotiation and he shouldve seen months ahead that the crows couldnt satisfy a trade without trading their first rounder

Expecting a first rounder in this trade is why we will now get him for free in the PSD, which is entirely reasonable to any neutral observer. When Kane Cornes backs in the Crows, you know you're off the mark.

Anyway, I've said my bit on your board, I'm sure you will go and enjoy watching the GF replay while I have nightmares about our midfield.

Cheers.

 

[Leuy LongerCombo]

There will be a 99% chance Cal gets to whatever team he chooses in the PSD.

However, not getting the deal done opens the conversation up for a 1 year extension with us, that back end money won’t go away. It also opens the door for Port Adelaide to make contact and re-assess basically a few hit, potentially West Coast and even more money for Cal.

Yes he’s manager was emphatic last night, but the questions will still be asked and once they’ve cooled down be assessed on their merits.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Expecting a first rounder in this trade is why we will now get him for free in the PSD, which is entirely reasonable to any neutral observer. When Kane Cornes backs in the Crows, you know you're off the mark.

Anyway, I've said my bit on your board, I'm sure you will go and enjoy watching the GF replay while I have nightmares about our midfield.

Cheers.

Haha good one

Sounds like our offers were 2 future seconds or a 2026 second and 16 for Cal and 23

But maybe you should go back to your bubble

 

[SizeMatters]

50 internet points to you Sizey. Thanks for enlightening us ans congrats on your nobel peace prize

You just said you hadnt read all the posts but then assume nobody is showing empathy to Cal. Good for you

cool man. The fact you probably read this twice over before posting and thought it’s “edgy” and appropriate speaks volumes on the kind of person you are.

I don’t get this response at all.

 

[pjcrows]

So then you cant offer shit that the other club doesnt want and expect to get a guy who will probably give you 100 games of high quality football. Something a late second round pick isnt likely to do

Do you go to buy an iphone and say i value money more than Apple so I'm offering you $500?

Maybe we value Cal more

He's literally out of contract. We aren't prying him out

Anyway, my post above is where I will leave it.

 

[Bucking Beads]

I’m obviously invested in First Nations being one myself. And I understand the pull of family and the support you get from those who just understand. It’s a shame on both clubs in how this played out. He could (albeit unlikely) be heading to WA! To mine, it’s just lack of respect by both clubs.

Anyways I’ll stop. Seems the human element is lost on a few here. Which is fair as the old saying goes “no one is bigger than the club”.

Whats a First Nations anyway?? Isn't a Canadian term that someone has decided refers to Aborginals now?

Anyway you're correct about the human element in this situation. I feel for Cal and the uncertainty he now faces. He is such a good player and good human. He will be missed by our club. I wish his departure from our club went down in a better way.

 

[Zacs_Magic_Tooth]

Neither club values? We absolutely value our picks, and need to. This is literally my point.

End of the day both clubs value Cal more than they do that combination of picks. Both clubs would take pick 23 over Cal based on the situation. Makes the trade difficult, but ultimately shows that our clubs aren’t all that different on perception of value

 

[The Flying Belgian]

Eh. Don’t buy that. I guess it makes other clubs “scared” for as long as Dom is around. He could leave next year and if anything it’s tarnished the clubs reputation a little.

Why would we not be planning for business continuity?

 

[Pns_blister]

Dust our hands and move on. Overall we have improved key areas that we needed to on our list and will be adding another important kid for our future.

Not the first time Reid has done this, and according to Kinnear Beatson it was his one wood in the Dawson trade too. Only a matter of time before it comes back to bite them in the arse, not us.

Feel for Cal in all this and the amount of stress this would place on him and his family, but when Adelaide has a rich history in recent times of using the PSD as a threat, and we don’t, i’m not sure how anyone could point the finger in our direction.

Pretty limited negotiation abilities by Reid when all he does is low ball then fall back on the PSD.

 

[Haggis McHaggis]

Essentially, teams like Adelaide place a stronger value on raw picks because we have a narrower way of bringing in young talent than a team like Brisbane. We could go tit-for-tat on whether Academy processes are fair but that's a separate argument - and it is the rules we operate under - so I'm not going to argue that here. You've benefited from the rules, as all clubs would. You've also drafted/traded very well separate from Academy/FS recently, which is a big part of your flags.

The Crows will take Cal in the PSD for nothing and move on, as I'm sure Brisbane will when they take another Academy player next month.

For those of us that were around when we won 3 in a row and the Mexican cartels came after us for the whopping $600k cumulative salary cap allowance we had, which just managed to hold a few players when we always had all the traditional footy states trying to use us as a crèche, this shit is all too familiar. QLD football was nearly entirely killed by short sighted southern bullshit. As a previous poster asked, value to who? Your mob bitched and moaned about Charlie Cameron’s value, and we ended up stumping up. Yeah, different situation, but the principle is the same. Not an ounce of respect for how we value the player in this case it seems. Cal would absolutely hate this, yet it seems his chosen club and drongo manager would sooner do this than show a little respect for the BLFC, and the player I would suggest.

 

[Tom14]

So then you cant offer shit that the other club doesnt want and expect to get a guy who will probably give you 100 games of high quality football. Something a late second round pick isnt likely to do

Do you go to buy an iphone and say i value money more than Apple so I'm offering you $500?

Maybe we value Cal more

We here at the Lions value picks too.

That's why when Nick Daicos is out of contract next and requests a trade for us to play with his hero, will ashcroft, we will only be offering a single first round pick. Because we value our picks so highly.

Nick was a childhood fan of Will so it is really important for him that he gets to us and Collingwood is reasonable.

 

[Viceregal]

Why would we walk them to the PSD if we've offered an agreed value?

Manifestly untrue - if there had been an agreed value there would have been a trade.

 

[knaf]

You list manager is the new Dodoro. Wouldnt take a 2 and a 3 for a guy that not worth a first and I think everyone in the AFL world knows that. You piss of a player manager for what...it just sours people against wanting to go there if they cant look after players who have won them a flag.

Are you talking about the blues list Manager. Compare the lists and recent performances, who has a problem with list management?

 

[Perrip]

Kerry U20 star Ben Murphy expected to join Brisbane Lions in the AFL next month


More of a list management than trade story.

Great news. Excited to see what he can bring to AFL.

 

[Toffee Lion]

Just popped over for some engagement on the Adelaide board. Wowee. An enlightened bunch.

 

[John_Proctor]

I don't know why this is so contentious for both sides.

Why are Adelaide fans here complaining about Brisbane - be happy your 'hard nosed' negotiation 'worked' and you'll get Cal for free in the PSD*.

And for us Brisbane fans, this is negotiation - of course Adelaide are being two faced and saying he's really important to them to his face and hes a 28yo solid utliity not a star to us... In negotiation sometimes you blink, sometimes they blink and sometimes noone blinks. We can be "happy" that we are the type of club that just likes to get deals done for players we target but this is real life and Adelaide have just used all the leverage they had to get "their" man. That compares to Essendon who often don't get there man or value for their team - Adelaide will* get Ah Chee from this where as Dodoro fumbled both Daniher to Sydney (more picks in for Bombers than him leaving as a FA the next year) and Dunkley to Bombers (and now maybe they've fumbled Merrett to Hawks missing out on 3 first rounders for a 30yo)

Personally I would have blinked in this situation and taken the final low ball from crows. compared to the current likely outcome we get something AND the crows lose a couple of chips in their future list building. But either way we have still won the vast majority of trades we've been involved in for 7-8 years and "losing" this one isn't going to change our world.

most importantly, best of personal luck Cal (hope the team struggles though)!

* 99% he gets to Adelaide in PSD, but you never know.

 

[Toffee Lion]

In all seriousness, the carry-on from Crows fans (And their club) is bizarre. They're literally going to get a player for free.

Acting like we just hog-tied Cal, locked him in the basement and cut him off from his family! Some of the wording from their list management team screams childish behaviour as well.

A lot of grown ups need to calm down.

 

[Nathan Barley]

I don't know why this is so contentious for both sides.

Why are Adelaide fans here complaining about Brisbane - be happy your 'hard nosed' negotiation 'worked' and you'll get Cal for free in the PSD*.

And for us Brisbane fans, this is negotiation - of course Adelaide are being two faced and saying he's really important to them to his face and hes a 28yo solid utliity not a star to us... In negotiation sometimes you blink, sometimes they blink and sometimes noone blinks. We can be "happy" that we are the type of club that just likes to get deals done for players we target but this is real life and Adelaide have just used all the leverage they had to get "their" man. That compares to Essendon who often don't get there man or value for their team - Adelaide will* get Ah Chee from this where as Dodoro fumbled both Daniher to Sydney (more picks in for Bombers than him leaving as a FA the next year) and Dunkley to Bombers (and now maybe they've fumbled Merrett to Hawks missing out on 3 first rounders for a 30yo)

Personally I would have blinked in this situation and taken the final low ball from crows. compared to the current likely outcome we get something AND the crows lose a couple of chips in their future list building. But either way we have still won the vast majority of trades we've been involved in for 7-8 years and "losing" this one isn't going to change our world.

most importantly, best of personal luck Cal (hope the team struggles though)!

* 99% he gets to Adelaide in PSD, but you never know.

In next years draft when we have picks 40 and 45 we wont be missing also having 35 and 55

 

[RoyBoy17]

Neither club values? We absolutely value our picks, and need to. This is literally my point.

The pick slide scenario gave you your first round pick that you wanted to keep and gave us fairer value for Ah Chee. That deal was reasonable. Mind you you're getting Ah Chee as part of the deal not just downgrading a pick

 

[Toffee Lion]

In next years draft when we have picks 40 and 45 we wont be missing also having 35 and 55

I think we'll be too busy celebrating the 3-peat anyway.

 

[Section 5]

Crows final offer: F2 (original) then added F3
Lions counteroffer: F2 plus a pick slide 23-16 or 7 spots. (looks like that was it from early on other that asking for 16)

One is a difference of +271 points for Lions to use this year v Crows dropping 5 to 7 spots in 2025 draft
Crows probably lose a bit, but they get a player

The other option, Lions lose a player but only gain F2 + F3. Not a great result but better than nothing

Lions offer:
Lions lose Ah-Chee. Lions gain F2 plus only 271 points this year (pick 16 less 23 at that point in time).
Adelaide gain Ah-Chee. Lose F2. Initially drop 7 pick spots in 2025. Likely 5 spots when Lions and Sun make their bids.

Adelaide offer:
Adelaide gain Ah-Chee but lose F2 + F3.
Lions lose Ah-Chee and gain F2 + F3 in the changed draft rules next year.

Looks to me like both the Crows and Lions wanted to use pick 16 this year but for different reasons

For the sake of 271 points this year the Lions would have a F3 down the track. Hardly worth fighting over.
For the sake of dropping just 5 pick spots the Crows would have their man. Also hardly worth fighting over.
I think both clubs are losers in this case.

Now the Crows risk him in the PSD. If he gets to them, it is a win trade wise to the Crows.
Ah-Chee would not be pleased with both clubs at this point.

If the Lions were trying to send a message to other Lions players coming out of contract "be careful" as we will play hardball no matter you service.
Not sure that's the message you want to send when the club and players have been a united team for quite a few years now.
It is hard to stay near the top for a period of time and needs everyone from the Chairman down to the volunteers for it to work out
Change can happen slowly or quickly like after 2004.
Swann a big loss with Dew also departing and Davis prior to those. Daly looks like he is staying but there were offers considered.

OOC next year from Roster Watch
2026:
Lachie Neale

9

Lachie Neale

Age

32

Ht

177cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

27.0

5star

K

11.5

4star

HB

15.5

5star

M

4.0

4star

T

3.7

5star

CL

5.9

5star

D

28.3

5star

K

13.9

5star

HB

14.4

5star

M

4.6

4star

T

4.0

5star

CL

5.9

5star

D

12.0

3star

K

4.6

2star

HB

7.4

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

1.0

3star

CL

0.4

3star

, Zac Bailey

33

Zac Bailey

Age

26

Ht

181cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.7

3star

K

6.9

3star

HB

5.9

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.2

4star

CL

0.9

3star

D

12.9

3star

K

7.3

3star

HB

5.6

3star

M

3.9

4star

T

2.4

3star

CL

0.7

3star

D

13.4

4star

K

6.6

3star

HB

6.8

5star

M

3.2

4star

T

2.8

5star

CL

0.6

3star

, Henry Smith, Oscar McInerney, Noah Answerth, Will McLachlan (R), Luke Lloyd, Zane Zakostelsky, Reece Torrent, Darcy Fort

32

Darcy Fort

Age

32

Ht

204cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.6

2star

K

5.8

2star

HB

2.9

3star

CL

2.9

4star

HO

17.8

5star

D

9.2

2star

K

6.0

2star

HB

3.2

2star

CL

3.6

4star

HO

21.2

5star

D

7.6

2star

K

5.4

2star

HB

2.2

2star

CL

2.2

4star

HO

15.6

5star

, Bruce Reville (R), Dayne Zorko

15

Dayne Zorko

Age

36

Ht

175cm

Wt

77kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.4

5star

K

13.2

5star

HB

8.2

5star

M

3.6

4star

T

6.0

5star

MG

440.5

5star

D

14.0

3star

K

9.0

4star

HB

5.0

3star

M

2.0

2star

T

5.0

5star

MG

291.0

4star

D

16.4

4star

K

9.8

4star

HB

6.6

4star

M

5.2

5star

T

6.6

5star

, Darcy Gardiner

27

Darcy Gardiner

Age

30

Ht

192cm

Wt

91kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.6

3star

K

7.4

3star

HB

5.2

4star

M

4.1

4star

T

2.1

4star

G

0.0

1star

D

10.7

3star

K

7.9

3star

HB

2.9

2star

M

3.7

4star

T

2.1

3star

G

0.0

1star

D

10.2

3star

K

6.0

3star

HB

4.2

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.8

4star

G

0.0

1star

, Ryan Lester

35

Ryan Lester

Age

33

Ht

190cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.9

4star

K

7.9

3star

HB

7.0

4star

M

3.9

4star

T

2.7

4star

MG

170.4

3star

D

10.3

3star

K

5.8

2star

HB

4.5

3star

M

2.7

3star

T

1.5

2star

MG

140.7

3star

D

12.6

4star

K

6.8

3star

HB

5.8

4star

M

3.8

4star

T

0.6

3star

(R), James Tunstill
Sam Marshall