List Mgmt. 2025 List Management discussion

[botts]

Reckon it would go a long way in regard to keeping Nas. Bet he's pretty sick of losing

He would be but he can see the future. If we bring in all those players in the off season and have a fit king and phillipou we will have a serious bounce next year

 

[phantom13]

Aleer has the biggest vertical leap in draft combined history, a number not far off the NFL record. So he has other physical attributes.

We have a clear lack of height all over the ground, it couldnt be more obvious, it is why we are constantly giving away free kicks. It's even starting to catch up with Wilkie. Giving away lot's more frees this year.

Barrat may end up a good footballer, but it is just not obvious what need he fills. He may be a key position player, maybe. Maybe it's something else.

There is no uncertainty what Whitlock is. A big key forward who can roll through the ruck. Something we are crying out for. Keep it simple.

We have King, who couldn't be more unreliable, Keeler we won't even offer more than 1 year to, after that the cupboard is bare. We still roll with Owens as a second ruck before Moose was playing

I would also argue even a fit King needs a second tall to be effective. Too many games he gets double teamed and is a non event.

It's not personal with Barrat, I just think it was a really risky and unnecessary call to overlook Whitlock, who was not only the higher rated prospect but also fills an obvious requirement.

Barratt, Tauru, Aleer, Howard, Camaniti, Wilkie, Cordy backs
King, Owens, Sharman, Keeler, Dodson forwards
Heath, Roma, Boyd rucks

We dont have a lack of height we have a lack of experienced height a problem Whitlock wouldnt fix.

Not against him but comparing two KPPs with 0 games experience based on some broad draft projections seems a little silly, as it stands Port played Visentini over him when they had nothing else in the cupboard.

 

[phantom13]

He would be but he can see the future. If we bring in all those players in the off season and have a fit king and phillipou we will have a serious bounce next year

Win one or two, give him a week off to go home and rest up too.

Best of both worlds.

 

[jimmytigs]

coupla players of interest in the sanfl


Whitlock booted 3.2 from 18 touches, while also having 15 hitouts.

First-year forward Joe Berry had 22 disposals and kicked one goal.

 

[Saintbloke]

You call this short term , its been going on for over 10 years

10 years and much more if you're an older Sainter and seen it all before

 

[SainterinSydney]

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but interesting that Nas wanted to play midfield and RTB has accommodated in circumstances where Port has a stacked midfield. Pretty sure Port will use Nas as the Houston replacement. Not sure Nas wants to be on the HBF going forward.

 

[PJays]

Really depends on the stats. Equal wins with the team in 3rd thats a stat that supports it.

No it doesn't. That's just lazy, surface level analysis

Who were the wins against?

Richmond have lost 7 or 8 floggings by 10 goals+, including one against...St Kilda (their biggest loss of the year). Despite having a far easier fixture.

A fixture equalised analysis says St Kilda is a better team by 2 or 3 wins and 20% or more. That's a huge difference.

Of course, it's possible Richmond finishes the season stronger.

I'm just making the point that no-one can take a fair-minded look at current records, to this point in the season, and suggest Richmond have performed at a "similar" level to St Kilda. That's an assertion that is not founded on anything.

 

[Rash]

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but interesting that Nas wanted to play midfield and RTB has accommodated in circumstances where Port has a stacked midfield. Pretty sure Port will use Nas as the Houston replacement. Not sure Nas wants to be on the HBF going forward.

im not so sure our midfield is exactly stacked

We havent got much else other than Butters-JHF

Wines and drew have had shocking coupla years. Nas would slot straight in.

And rozee ofcourse has been moved.

 

[Joffaboy]

Theyve also won one more game in paying more and lost two.

Given our current form were no monties to beat Richmond or Melbourne (in fact i hope we lose them tbh). Even North isnt a home run.

Our draw hasnt been kind but every year i see saints fans banging on about this unfair draw. We love an excuse.

Weve been honorable in losses to good teams, totally agree, but maybe we just tend to play to the standard of our opponents. By seasons end its almost certain that West Coast will be a histotically shit footy team and well be their only scalp this year (which unsuprisingly is caveated by saints fans as "oh they were motivated" etc etc.)

Weve played some footy where weve looked top 4 and weve played some footy where weve looked 18th.

We gonna finish bottom 5, IMO were pretty similar to the bottom 3 teams.

The fixture is appalling for us year in year out. It affects attendance and hence sponsorship. To play Bulldogs, Geelong and Melbourne twice before playing North and Essendon is ridiculous ....

......however

Just say we had an easy draw. We may, just may, have made finals, but at best 8th. Probably an honourable 9th or 10th.

What that means the kids aren't played as we try for finals. Many of the kids would not be getting games onto them. A stuffed season means lots of debutantes.
Also an 8 to 10 finish means a pick between 13 and 15 instead of pick 7 or 8 that we get.
Yes the draw is shit, but the bright side is a development year.
Bassat is not backward in coming forward and if we know how shit the draw has been, the club would. He will be hammering the AFL for a better fixture next season.

 

[CaptainRisky]

Now to really top of the season just watch them win the next 4 and end up with some shitty draft pick

 

[BrutThough]

im not so sure our midfield is exactly stacked

We havent got much else other than Butters-JHF

Wines and drew have had shocking coupla years. Nas would slot straight in.

And rozee ofcourse has been moved.

Two weeks ago, wasn't Bergman being touted as the next big midfielder coming through?

 

[ScrappyDo]

Ok that's fine, that's your opinion, but that isn't backed up by the data at this point.

Actually it's 100% backed by the data. If you choose to only look at the specific data that suits your narrative then that's on you.

 

[akaifu]

Two weeks ago, wasn't Bergman being touted as the next big midfielder coming through?

Bergman for NWM straight swap !!!

 

[SaintsofSteel]

Barratt, Tauru, Aleer, Howard, Camaniti, Wilkie, Cordy backs
King, Owens, Sharman, Keeler, Dodson forwards
Heath, Roma, Boyd rucks

We dont have a lack of height we have a lack of experienced height a problem Whitlock wouldnt fix.

Not against him but comparing two KPPs with 0 games experience based on some broad draft projections seems a little silly, as it stands Port played Visentini over him when they had nothing else in the cupboard.

We are in a full rebuild and history shows we cant attract elite players let alone the midfielders we require. Our side arent going to be challenging for sometime regardless of the additions of TDK & Aleer, simply because we still lack elite midfielders.

So I agree with the OP we do lack height and size. Barratt, Tauru, Wilkie will always be under sized key positional players and if the AFL change the hands in the back rule even Wilkie 191cms will struggle. If Im honest I was disappointed we didnt target more size at last years draft. I would have taken Noah Mraz 198cms or Jack Whitlock 200cms over Barrat. Caminiti is 196cms tall and even he looks small alongside some of the current day forward lines.

Put King and Howard back in the side and we are still one key defender/forward down, let alone having backups in case of injury.

In the interim we need to keep drafting and developing our own future midfield so there will be plenty of time for the like of Jack Whitlock to grow and develop with our others kids. Yes he will need time but IMO he would be a great pickup particularly if he wants out of Port.

 

[Nutsngum]

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but interesting that Nas wanted to play midfield and RTB has accommodated in circumstances where Port has a stacked midfield. Pretty sure Port will use Nas as the Houston replacement. Not sure Nas wants to be on the HBF going forward.

Nas has attended center bounces before though. He's so damaging off the flank though its hard to simply move him in. Like Sinclair who can play inside as well in bursts but it hurts our run and carry.

Some of Nas' inside work on the weekend made up for that though.. that tap from Marshall straight into his hands and then hitting up Sharman with a pin point kick was a thing of absolute perfection.

 

[karnaby]

The fixture is appalling for us year in year out. It affects attendance and hence sponsorship. To play Bulldogs, Geelong and Melbourne twice before playing North and Essendon is ridiculous ....

......however

Just say we had an easy draw. We may, just may, have made finals, but at best 8th. Probably an honourable 9th or 10th.

What that means the kids aren't played as we try for finals. Many of the kids would not be getting games onto them. A stuffed season means lots of debutantes.
Also an 8 to 10 finish means a pick between 13 and 15 instead of pick 7 or 8 that we get.
Yes the draw is shit, but the bright side is a development year.
Bassat is not backward in coming forward and if we know how shit the draw has been, the club would. He will be hammering the AFL for a better fixture next season.

True. It's great that so many youngsters are getting plenty of afl game time.

Just to add a couple of points:
I've not heard anything much from the club about our draw. A bit about the 3 games in Adelaide in the first 5 weeks, but I don't recall anything else. I suspect the club, if they even say anything to the league, would/ are doing it behind closed doors. No use being seen to be whinging about everything.
I believe Lyon would be taking the attitude that it's better to measure yourself against the better teams rather than also rans. And, i expect his messaging to the team would reflect that too.

Higgins last minute goal last year did more than push our picks out. It elevated us to the 6 - 12 middle tier of the draw which affected the mix of teams that we would play this year.
I do understand why it's like that, it's just that the way it has worked out over the season has been fairly unkind to us.

 

[saintbill]

Barratt, Tauru, Aleer, Howard, Camaniti, Wilkie, Cordy backs
King, Owens, Sharman, Keeler, Dodson forwards
Heath, Roma, Boyd rucks

We dont have a lack of height we have a lack of experienced height a problem Whitlock wouldnt fix.

Not against him but comparing two KPPs with 0 games experience based on some broad draft projections seems a little silly, as it stands Port played Visentini over him when they had nothing else in the cupboard.

Howard is almost done. You talking about Cordy, c'mon mate, that is just absolutely pointless.

It's glaringly obvious we have a lack of height. We are getting murdered in the air. Something Lyon himself has identified as a massive issue.

Obviously, Whitlock doesn't fix the problem immediately, but that is not the point. We are not winning anything the next 2 years, we need a young forward coming through that we could start to develop now.

We have got nothing in the cupboard, and it is not easy to find tall forwards, particularly ones that are 200cm+. A good ruck/forward is rare.

If we are not drafting one, expect to pay a truckload in draft capital if you want anybody good in the 23-26 bracket.

Finding a Barrat type is just a far easier proposition. There will always be a bevy of 194cm types that show some potential.

 

[Falchoon]

Is 194 actually undersized anymore? Steven May is 190, Taylor is 198 (a whopping 4cm taller), Howard 199 (5cm taller).

Camma is 196cm and my preferred lock down full back. Wilkie plays on the second and Aleer and Tauru (pending him playing forward) is my talls in the backline and none of them is 200cm.

May is listed as 193cm on the AFL and MFC websites

 

[St Neil]

Has spent zero time forward in the 2s a year that I am aware of and I have seen plenty of Zebs footy.

Sounds like we see him as a defender. Has really struggled at full back.

Maybe there is a role for him elsewhere, but doesn't change the fact we had a top 20 prospect on the table in a position we desperately need to recruit for, and we went with a bloke that may be a forward, maybe a back, maybe it's mid now. Who knows.

Just keep it simple next time. Whitlock was the obvious call.

I’d rather we pick the best player than make the obvious call.

Lads develop at different rates and what is happening now may not be what is happening after 2-3 years of development.

Dalrymple ajudged Barrat as the better player for our list. He had a decision to make and he made it.

I’ll happily back his judgement. Whether he is right will take several years to play out.

FWIW I was wrapped we drafted Barrat. He looked to be a fabulous prospect.

 

[ABAB]

im not so sure our midfield is exactly stacked

We havent got much else other than Butters-JHF

Wines and drew have had shocking coupla years. Nas would slot straight in.

And rozee ofcourse has been moved.

If your midfield isn't stacked then your list is even worst than I thought, why would NWM even consider going there........

 

[phantom13]

No it doesn't. That's just lazy, surface level analysis

Who were the wins against?

Richmond have lost 7 or 8 floggings by 10 goals+, including one against...St Kilda (their biggest loss of the year). Despite having a far easier fixture.

A fixture equalised analysis says St Kilda is a better team by 2 or 3 wins and 20% or more. That's a huge difference.

Of course, it's possible Richmond finishes the season stronger.

I'm just making the point that no-one can take a fair-minded look at current records, to this point in the season, and suggest Richmond have performed at a "similar" level to St Kilda. That's an assertion that is not founded on anything.

lol, sure. We’re fourth last right now and have won 2 of the last 14.

It’s such a saints thing to lose their shit over saying we look bottom three when we’re actually bottom 4.

I don’t care, I made the point I get why, just amusing to see the “but what about x” there’s always an excuse

 

[SainterinSydney]

If your midfield isn't stacked then your list is even worst than I thought, why would NWM even consider going there........

Can safely say one of the rare times I agree with a Croweater.

 

[phantom13]

Howard is almost done. You talking about Cordy, c'mon mate, that is just absolutely pointless.

It's glaringly obvious we have a lack of height. We are getting murdered in the air. Something Lyon himself has identified as a massive issue.

Obviously, Whitlock doesn't fix the problem immediately, but that is not the point. We are not winning anything the next 2 years, we need a young forward coming through that we could start to develop now.

We have got nothing in the cupboard, and it is not easy to find tall forwards, particularly ones that are 200cm+. A good ruck/forward is rare.

If we are not drafting one, expect to pay a truckload in draft capital if you want anybody good in the 23-26 bracket.

Finding a Barrat type is just a far easier proposition. There will always be a bevy of 194cm types that show some potential.

You’re saying this with absolutely no idea of whether Barrett (or Whitlock) is any good.

I’d take a good 194 (which really isn’t that undersized anyway) over a shit 202.

As it stands we’ve got no clue which would be the better choice.

 

[phantom13]

May is listed as 193cm on the AFL and MFC websites

Wiki was 190, honestly not gonna squabble over 3cms…

 

[70s sainter]

If you believe the scuttlebutt, part of Nas' issue with the Saints was that Keeler & Windy weren't named in our "Future Best Team" that was presented to him.

If we are only offering 1 or 2 year deals to these guys then Port might look to offer them longer deals as a way to entice Nas.

Makes it much harder for us if 2 or 3 of them ask for trades vs just Nas alone.

If it’s that easy why don’t we just ask Brisbane’s whole list to come to us and we can trade all of our players .