List Mgmt. 2025 List Management

[serial_thrilla]

 

[chaosball32]

Why are you using examples of GWS (Who's ruck was going so bad that they dropped him for a debutant 2 weeks ago) and port (who their ruck is a journeyman and a debutant) vs the 2 hardest rucks to face in Xerri and Witts?

Why is everyone pretending that GWS and Port are not still AFL level midfields? You guys are treating them like they’ve beaten up on some div 3 ammo’s team.

Somebody says Jackson and Voss setup can’t win clearances, I show indisputable numbers that prove that untrue, and now I’m getting um acschually-ed by everyone on this board.

Do you really think Gold Coast’s midfield is 18 clearances better then GWS?

Actually more then 18 clearances, seeing as your argument is we win more clearances with Darcy/Jackson.

 

[chaosball32]

Because the argument is disingenuous and entirely designed to support their preconceptions regardless of evidence?

Wait, sorry you were being rhetorical right?

View attachment 2345321

Yet Essendon are the number 5 clearance team directly below North and Gold Coast, and we are resting Darcy this week.

Regardless of who’s rucking for Essendon this week, if Essendon are such a good clearance team and Darcy is the only way we can stop this why would we not play him?

Oh hang on, I’m just arguing in bad faith according to you, never mind.

 

[freo_leo29]

why would we not play him?

5 day break

4 games in the wet over a 6 day period + the soccer last week too (including Origin tonight)

I wouldn't be risking him on this turf

 

[eastfreo75]

Again, not the point I’m arguing.

But seeing as everyone is so invested in clearances numbers:

Collingwood are 7-6 in clearances this year (same as us) yet they sit top of the ladder 11-2.

Geelong have only won the clearance count in 3 of their 14 games this season, yet they are 2nd on the ladder.

North and Melbourne are actually two of the better clearance teams this year, having both won the clearance count 9 times, yet they are both comfortably bottom 4 teams.

And Taylor initially said that losing clearances costs games, yet we’ve lost the clearance count the last 2 games and still won both.

Maybe this argument that we need to field Darcy so that we can win the clearances (which is apparently crucial to winning games) isn’t true?

Darcy and Jackson won 70% of games last year. Winning is the best stat.

This year we are 2-2 with both but Darcy went down in the Collingwood game.

Darcy with Voss is 1-0 and McDonald 1-1

Jackson/Reidy 0-1

Jackson/Voss 4-1

 

[chaosball32]

5 day break

4 games in the wet over a 6 day period + the soccer last week too (including Origin tonight)

I wouldn't be risking him on this turf

Exactly, and it’s the right choice, but if he was as crucial to the team as everyone in here thinks resting him against one of the better clearance teams in the competition wouldn’t even be an option regardless of 5 day break. Right now he’s being used sparingly, whole “horses for courses” thing.

That’s how this whole thread of arguments started, I was refuting the idea that 1. winning clearances is the most crucial metric to winning games and 2. that we need Darcy to do that.

As I said, clearly I’m in the minority with my view and I’m not really interested in going around in circles about this forever so I’ll leave it at that.

Snuffaluphagus gave the fairest summarisation on the arguments for and against the two ruck system a few pages back, refer to that.

 

[wakojako]

It's a shame that Jackson hasn't had a preseason as a midfielder because we have kind of thrown him in the deep end. I have liked what I've see so far but he has so much potential as a midfielder. I hope Fyfe can train him up on how to be a contested beast. We shouldn't expect anything less from a man of his size. I would also like midfielder Jackson to take contested marks on the wing and hit the score board. If we can help him to meet his potential, we will have the best midfield in the game.

 

[FreoRicci]

My thoughts on Erasmus..

If some of the numbers floating around regarding offers from West Coast are even remotely true he's gone. They'll be paying him close to $1m more to do the same job in the same city. Who's knocking that back?

I like Raz and was really pleased he was finally gettting his run at it in the 1sts. However, when Young comes back into the team, he's probably going to end up back in the WAFL anyway.

Long term, I'm not concerened as we have Whan (2025) and Robinson (2026) coming in from our NGA, who are both midfielders. Robinson is a particularly exiting prospect. I also expect Reid will graduate into a genuine for/mid.

Long term, I am concerned.
NGA won’t be ready until 2-3 after they’re drafted. 2028 is probably when we ll see the potential.

Fyfe
JOM
Aish

All 3 will probably be retired/delisted.

Brodie- he can’t get into the team as is. He may ask for a trade or delisted.

Suddenly the midfield depth is bare.
NOD is a winger that may eventually get inside mid duties.
Young, I don’t think has the body to be a full time mid given his injury record the last two years.

Can’t just rely on Brayshaw and Serong being the two.

That’s why it’ll be fantastic to continue to develop Erasmus and Johnson. I believe both still have lots to prove and develop.

 

[FreoRicci]

Again, not the point I’m arguing.

But seeing as everyone is so invested in clearances numbers:

Collingwood are 7-6 in clearances this year (same as us) yet they sit top of the ladder 11-2.

Geelong have only won the clearance count in 3 of their 14 games this season, yet they are 2nd on the ladder.

North and Melbourne are actually two of the better clearance teams this year, having both won the clearance count 9 times, yet they are both comfortably bottom 4 teams.

And Taylor initially said that losing clearances costs games, yet we’ve lost the clearance count the last 2 games and still won both.

Maybe this argument that we need to field Darcy so that we can win the clearances (which is apparently crucial to winning games) isn’t true?

Problem is Fremantle lose the clearances, it’s easy to exploit. Collingwood and Geelong have excellent defensive structures that just repel and allow teams to kick long down the line to Moore/Howe and Stewart’s advtange.

Look at Fremantle v Collingwood for example. 62 to 34 Inside 50s. 43-30 clearances.

Not the same with Fremantle. Cox, Pearce and Ryan do struggle to do that at times.

 

[Taylor]

I think O'Driscoll is our weapon at the stoppages around the ground (2.8), he is our =3rd stoppage clearance player by average this season behind Serong (4.8) and O'Meara (3.4), he is equal with Brayshaw.

Just a touch ahead of Johnson.

O'Driscoll is a large frame (188cm) and quick off the mark with a long left foot kick, built to be an impact/burst stoppage player.

 

[GingerDocker]

Long term, I am concerned.
NGA won’t be ready until 2-3 after they’re drafted. 2028 is probably when we ll see the potential.

Fyfe
JOM
Aish

All 3 will probably be retired/delisted.

Brodie- he can’t get into the team as is. He may ask for a trade or delisted.

Suddenly the midfield depth is bare.
NOD is a winger that may eventually get inside mid duties.
Young, I don’t think has the body to be a full time mid given his injury record the last two years.

Can’t just rely on Brayshaw and Serong being the two.

That’s why it’ll be fantastic to continue to develop Erasmus and Johnson. I believe both still have lots to prove and develop.

Do you see Dogga being able to realistically provide an option in that time?

 

[FreoRicci]

Do you see Dogga being able to realistically provide an option in that time?

Yes and no. Does he want to be a midfielder? Does he have aspirations on being an AA. Then he ll be better bet as a ruckman then midfielder where theres fierce competition.

AA ruck means he only has to compete with Xerri, Gawn, English, Marshall.

 

[Taylor]

The AA selection team will stick him in the ruck of the AA team if he taps 5 to 10 a game and midfield the rest because he would average so many touches and clearances.

 

[GingerDocker]

Is it aerobically possible to be a ruck/midfielder?

 

[Taylor]

Is it aerobically possible to be a ruck/midfielder?

Patrick Cripps is currently doing that.

 

[jusjoshin]

Is it aerobically possible to be a ruck/midfielder?

That was basically what Goodes and Blicavs played as. You can do it if you are very fit and aren't carrying too much weight.

 

[Paracleet]

Is it aerobically possible to be a ruck/midfielder?

I don't see why in modern football football being a ruck midfielder is any harder than being a ruck forward from a pure tank size point of view. All the inside mids, nearside wing and forwards have to run approximately the same amount as each other as the zone moves up and down the field. Maybe the deepest key forward is spared a tiny bit of running. The defenders run less, particularly the keys and 'back pockets', for the obvious reason they have less distance to cover as the zone pushes out when their side is in possession. Only the fatside wingers have to run further.

Sure back in the day, in the first part of Goodes career* for instance, when positions were still static and their were no zones it was only the rucks and and midfielders covering long distances, I think it would have been the case.

I reckon you deploy Jackson as a mid forward like Warner when not rucking. Spends less time in the d50 and more time ahead of play looking to exploit a mis-match. Also means a tiny amount of km's less I 'd think.


*Interestingly he only had 153 hit outs in the entire last 10 years of his career. Even in the first part of his career the season when he had a lot of taps (he only once exceeded 200 hitouts and only twice 150) most of them seem to have come when the primary ruck was injured. In 2003 he got 299 but Ball was injured from round 16. He played most of his best footy as forward mid and the third ruck option.

 

[Purple Suit]

Long term, I am concerned.
NGA won’t be ready until 2-3 after they’re drafted. 2028 is probably when we ll see the potential.

Fyfe
JOM
Aish

All 3 will probably be retired/delisted.

Brodie- he can’t get into the team as is. He may ask for a trade or delisted.

Suddenly the midfield depth is bare.
NOD is a winger that may eventually get inside mid duties.
Young, I don’t think has the body to be a full time mid given his injury record the last two years.

Can’t just rely on Brayshaw and Serong being the two.

That’s why it’ll be fantastic to continue to develop Erasmus and Johnson. I believe both still have lots to prove and develop.

Why retire all three if we have no depth?

We either keep one on or pick up a journey man on not much.

Murphy Reid should have scope for midfield next season.
Young back to full fitness which at least gives us an A grader in the team who if he can't play midfield, we can move someone else in there like Chappy or Worner.

Plus we will be picking up Whan at least who is a midfielder but not AFL body for a year or two.

Our depth will be fine as long as we don't lose too many other players not on your list like Ras or Brodie all at the same time.

 

[go_the_dockers]

Long term, I am concerned.
NGA won’t be ready until 2-3 after they’re drafted. 2028 is probably when we ll see the potential.

Fyfe
JOM
Aish

All 3 will probably be retired/delisted.

Brodie- he can’t get into the team as is. He may ask for a trade or delisted.

Suddenly the midfield depth is bare.
NOD is a winger that may eventually get inside mid duties.
Young, I don’t think has the body to be a full time mid given his injury record the last two years.

Can’t just rely on Brayshaw and Serong being the two.

That’s why it’ll be fantastic to continue to develop Erasmus and Johnson. I believe both still have lots to prove and develop.

JOM will stay for next year. Contracted and close enough to best 22.
Agree with Brodie, Fyfe and Aish.

We only need 7 mids plus a sub.

Brayshaw, Serong, NOD
Young, Bolton, Reid - Even if only playing 50/50 forward and mid.
Erasmus, Johnson
Sharp and Whan will be competing for the wing spot I think.
JOM and Banfield are ok as depth. -- 12 players in total, we need 5 injuries to mids before we got beyond this list.

I think we are fine if Erasmus stays, otherwise we will be at least 1 player short depth wise if we get injuries.

 

[jusjoshin]

Why retire all three if we have no depth?

We either keep one on or pick up a journey man on not much.

Murphy Reid should have scope for midfield next season.
Young back to full fitness which at least gives us an A grader in the team who if he can't play midfield, we can move someone else in there like Chappy or Worner.

Plus we will be picking up Whan at least who is a midfielder but not AFL body for a year or two.

Our depth will be fine as long as we don't lose too many other players not on your list like Ras or Brodie all at the same time.

We can run Wags, Bolts, Dogga, Young and Noddy through the inside midfield, and have the option to rotate them forward/back/ruck/wing. We'd also be looking at Cooper Simpson as another one we could throw into the HB/mid rotation and Bruce as one we could rotate HF/mid, but we are probably waiting on their bodies to fill out. Midfield depth I think we have adequately covered.

 

[Docker82]

JOM will stay for next year. Contracted and close enough to best 22.
Agree with Brodie, Fyfe and Aish.

We only need 7 mids plus a sub.

Brayshaw, Serong, NOD
Young, Bolton, Reid - Even if only playing 50/50 forward and mid.
Erasmus, Johnson
Sharp and Whan will be competing for the wing spot I think.
JOM and Banfield are ok as depth. -- 12 players in total, we need 5 injuries to mids before we got beyond this list.

I think we are fine if Erasmus stays, otherwise we will be at least 1 player short depth wise if we get injuries.

Pretty much how I see it tbh. If Erasmus leaves it's probably two years minimum we're short on inside mid depth. Only gets worse if JOM retires next year.

Question in that scenario is probably whether we fall back on Brodie or bring in someone else on the cheap. It'd almost seem bizarre to go back to Brodie at this point.

You'd think that drafting a midfielder on top of Whan and Robinson (in first or second round) is likely as well. If Erasmus stays that midfielder is probably a later pick if at all.

 

[Dayts]

Ras can go for a 4th.
Zero POD.

 

[MrDanggazz]

Pretty strong and confident words from Serong unprompted post game regarding Jackson, said he is going NOWHERE.

 

[Lach72]

Ras can go for a 4th.
Zero POD.

Nope. Thought he was fine.
Did a fair bit inside that was good

 

[Righteo]

Nope. Thought he was fine.
Did a fair bit inside that was good

He is almost a full year behind Johnson, both in age and in games played, who has only just now started to produce somewhat consistent footy. I reckon I'm holding onto my 21yo big bodied mid when that's the exact thing our list profile is lacking. Especially with Fyfe cooked and Brodie being persona non grata. amazing how myopic some of our fans are.

 

[Lach72]

He is almost a full year behind Johnson, both in age and in games played, who has only just now started to produce somewhat consistent footy. I reckon I'm holding onto my 21yo big bodied mid when that's the exact thing our list profile is lacking. Especially with Fyfe cooked and Brodie being persona non grata. amazing how myopic some of our fans are.

21 disposals In 60% game time.
I’ll need to rewatch the game but it seemed to me he did a lot of hard grunt stuff coming out of packs