Past #22: Todd Goldstein - has advised NMFC he will seek opportunity at Essendon in '24 - 316 NM games/156 goals/'15 SBM/'15 AA/most hitouts in lge history

[Elite Master]

I want to see another couple of similar performances at the very least before even considering him for selection, must persist with the Preuss/Daw combination. That is the future.

 

[ferball]

This got the Bees going.

A excellent pack mark. We need 3 of these a game in the AFL

He has barely got any this year.

that's my biggest issue with him at the moment. Not enough big contested marks. He should be taking more than 5 a game in the VFL.

 

[Snake_Baker]

He has barely got any this year.

that's my biggest issue with him at the moment. Not enough big contested marks. He should be taking more than 5 a game in the VFL.

You're like quite a few others on this issue. You have been too heavily invested in writing him off to have a balanced view on the matter. You, and others, have painted themselves in to a corner. The same rationale applies to others, regarding Swallow & the coach.

Todd's not perfect, nor was he in perfect touch on sunday, but he IS, without any doubt whatsoever, better than anything we currently have playing in the seniors.

 

[ozzyoslo]

This got the Bees going.

A excellent pack mark. We need 3 of these a game in the AFL

Thats what Ive been saying for years now whilst you and the Dalai Lama were doing the hokey pokey.......the only season he did it was in 2015, magically he gets the AA badge next to his name.

 

[RobZombie]

I want to see another couple of similar performances at the very least before even considering him for selection, must persist with the Preuss/Daw combination. That is the future.

If Preuss isn't fit I'd say Goldy has done enough to come back in rather than have Maj ruck solo. Otherwise would be ok with another week.

Todd's not perfect, nor was he in perfect touch on sunday, but he IS, without any doubt whatsoever, better than anything we currently have playing in the seniors.

Not convinced. While the Preuss/Daw combo didn't look great on the stats sheet, I thought they did a decent job of keeping Gawn to merely good rather than dominant. Can't help but feel in his current form Goldy would have been carved up. Gawn's too big for him to dominate in the hitouts and he just hasn't been doing enough else lately.

Thing is, while everyone here wishes Goldy was more crash-and-bash, that's never been what he builds his game around. The Good Goldy gets on his bike and contributes by getting into space, linking up and making use of his skills (decent by any standards and excellent for a ruckman) more than hitting contests. Of course it would be great if he did both, but if he's not executing the things he bases his game on then he has to at least get that in order before he's what we need from him.

 

[Snake_Baker]

If Preuss isn't fit I'd say Goldy has done enough to come back in rather than have Maj ruck solo. Otherwise would be ok with another week.

You have one of the better footy intellects around here Rob, but you have revealed a hole in your logic on this occasion.

Not convinced. While the Preuss/Daw combo didn't look great on the stats sheet, I thought they did a decent job of keeping Gawn to merely good rather than dominant. Can't help but feel in his current form Goldy would have been carved up. Gawn's too big for him to dominate in the hitouts and he just hasn't been doing enough else lately.

Seriously mate, if we need to dedicate two players to keep an opposition player at "good", then surely we are better off not playing any ruckman at all?! How is it possible that two players roles that are dedicated to keeping an opposition player to a reasonable output is a good thing? The only logical way I can view this is that Daw & Preuss were an abject failure.

 

[muttley45]

Preussy looked to be injured again, and will probably be replaced by Todd, question is, how will go v Grundy ?

 

[Snake_Baker]

Preussy looked to be injured again, and will probably be replaced by Todd, question is, how will go v Grundy ?

Last season in round 18 Todd combined with Majak. It was pretty obvious that Todd was carrying injury then.

In 2015 when Todd and Grundy went head to head, Todd flogged him.

 

[Tas]

I hope he plays well when he comes back.

 

[Brufen]

If....(and it's a big IF)...NMFC land both Kelly and Martin and we don't require trading him as currency, Goldstein will be the most important player at NMFC next season.

- Has the most scope for improvement of any current player on our list. (We know where his ceiling is)
- Whilst there is a theory that when Goldy plays well, North plays well. Conversely, perhaps when North are playing well Goldy plays well...
- A better fleet of midfielders = a better version of Goldy

Hopefully, the run in the twos will re-instill the confidence and self belief required to bring back his best, particularly the around the ground marking and scoreboard impact.

Whilst he was clearly injured in the back half of last season (from the Geelong game on from memory) when his form decline started I attribute his form decline to two things;
a) Strength and Conditioning coach Dan Meehan leaving the club: They spent a hell of a lot of one on one time training together, whether in the gym or even to the extent of bag work out on the ground and contesting one on one; &
b) Harvey, Dal Santo and Wells departures; these guys brought others into the game both directly through quality ball movement/skills and indirectly through football IQ and on-field direction.

I'm backing him in to get back to his best.

With Kelly and Martin in the side, we go from 16th in 2017 to around 8-10.

With Kelly and Martin in the side, and Goldstein back to 2015 form we go from 16th in 2017 to around 5-8.

 

[Snake_Baker]

I hope he plays well when he comes back.

Perspective is required.

I am putting this here in advance, so the knockers can't get away with poor analysis:

Todd would need to provide 40% of the hitouts, 8 disposals, 3 marks, 12 tackles, 1 behind, 1 stoppage and 1 clearance to match the combined outputs of Preuss and Daw last week. The 12 tackles might be a stretch, but I expect he can at least deliver the rest as a one out ruckman.

If both Preuss & Daw are dropped then the player that comes in with Todd enters the overall equaition.

THIS is his major point of difference.

 

[Caracas]

Goldstein and Swallow should be very much front and square in everybody's mind now. They are two massive, much loved servants of the club and they are stiil in their peak years. We should not lose sight of that because they've had flat seasons.

 

[giantroo]

 

[roos_fanatic08]

Last season in round 18 Todd combined with Majak. It was pretty obvious that Todd was carrying injury then.

In 2015 when Todd and Grundy went head to head, Todd flogged him.

Grundy has come of age since 2015 while Todd has regressed.

 

[marklovesbeer]

Goldstein and Swallow should be very much front and square in everybody's mind now. They are two massive, much loved servants of the club and they are stiil in their peak years. We should not lose sight of that because they've had flat seasons.

Andrew Swallow is not at his peak.
He won the last of his three best & fairest awards 5 years ago.

 

[dus]

Daw isn't getting dropped.

If Goldy comes in he's going to have to work in tandem with Maj.

If Preuss if fit, Goldy can have another week in the 2's.

I understand your argument that Goldy can probably provide more than either Maj or Preuss in isolation, but the fact of the matter is we are trying to develop a different combination in a rebuilding year.

I don't have a problem with this as even at his AA best with the experienced support around him it wasn't able to bring us a flag.

Goldy can bide his time in the 2s now, just like Maj, and to a lesser extent Preuss, have done for years.

 

[Caracas]

Andrew Swallow is not at his peak.
He won the last of his three best & fairest awards 5 years ago.

I'm talking about his age. There are other factors that explain those five years (injury, Cunnington and Tarrant arriving on the scene are good examples). My point is, he is not by any means ready for the junk heap.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Grundy has come of age since 2015 while Todd has regressed.

I understand that you, and others, have invested a lot in Todds downfall, and will take any opportunity available to cast him in an inferior light..

 

[remfan101]

I understand that you, and others, have invested a lot in Todds downfall, and will take any opportunity available to cast him in an inferior light..

Or, rather than assuming a conspiracy, you could accept the fact that Todd has been playing poor football for over a year, not playing his role properly, was dropped on the back of some truly insipid performances, played badly in the VFL and was flogged by Mark ****ing Pittonet, and has now played one fairly good game against a VFL side with no AFL listed players. If Preussy is injured he might be a chance to come back in, but you'd have to be blind not to see how badly he's been playing, particularly given his status as a leader in a young side and his massive paycheck.

 

[King Corey]

Todd's career direction isn't as dire as many who are basing it on a form blip might think.

Conversely Majak isn't tracking as badly and hasn't got as little exposed potential as his critics might have you believe.

Just call me Switzerland.

 

[roos_fanatic08]

I understand that you, and others, have invested a lot in Todds downfall, and will take any opportunity available to cast him in an inferior light..

Nah, I would much prefer Goldy to be back to his 2015/early 2016 form but its simply not the case and hasn't been this year.

If he can get back to that form he will play a huge part in us getting back up the ladder.

 

[RobZombie]

You have one of the better footy intellects around here Rob, but you have revealed a hole in your logic on this occasion.

All I'm saying (and I was mildly disputing EM here) was that Goldy's VFL performance was certainly good enough that bringing him back in for an injured Preuss wouldn't be gifting a game. It wasn't necessarily a slam dunk performance, though I only saw most of the second half on the Youtubes, but for sure 17 touches and a couple of goals to go with the hitouts suggests that more of Good Goldy was on show. Probably wasn't the week before.

Seriously mate, if we need to dedicate two players to keep an opposition player at "good", then surely we are better off not playing any ruckman at all?! How is it possible that two players roles that are dedicated to keeping an opposition player to a reasonable output is a good thing? The only logical way I can view this is that Daw & Preuss were an abject failure.

Sure, but it's not always an ideal world is it? Despite his injury Gawn is close to the best in the biz, and a physical beast. Double teaming him with Preuss's bulk and Maj's athleticism is a perfectly reasonable selection choice on a horses-for-courses basis. Preventing him from dominating with a couple of guys with a combined 30 games, one of whom is carrying a bad back, isn't a terrible result. If we send the same combo out against Grundy or McEvoy or Martin of course you'd set the bar higher.

Form is temporary, class is permanent, and Goldy's been out of form.

 

[Horizons_00]

Perspective is required.

I am putting this here in advance, so the knockers can't get away with poor analysis:

Todd would need to provide 40% of the hitouts, 8 disposals, 3 marks, 12 tackles, 1 behind, 1 stoppage and 1 clearance to match the combined outputs of Preuss and Daw last week. The 12 tackles might be a stretch, but I expect he can at least deliver the rest as a one out ruckman.

If both Preuss & Daw are dropped then the player that comes in with Todd enters the overall equaition.

THIS is his major point of difference.

You're comparing numbers to someone playing in the AFL > VFL? That is a major point of difference imo

Those Goldies number are ok and that's even at VFL level. Put him in the afl on this form and he will get dominated

 

[Snake_Baker]

You're comparing numbers to someone playing in the AFL > VFL? That is a major point of difference imo

It's never got in your way when you wanted someone promoted.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Or, rather than assuming a conspiracy, you could accept the fact that Todd has been playing poor football for over a year, not playing his role properly, was dropped on the back of some truly insipid performances, played badly in the VFL and was flogged by Mark ****ing Pittonet, and has now played one fairly good game against a VFL side with no AFL listed players. If Preussy is injured he might be a chance to come back in, but you'd have to be blind not to see how badly he's been playing, particularly given his status as a leader in a young side and his massive paycheck.

There's no conspiracy.

You bone players with the flippant abandon, then plonk on rose colored glasses to suit your favorites, and engage absurd logic in the process..