4 axed for 3rd test

[beatnik]

Actually it's spelt sherb.

lol, so that's a yes - I will take your silence as assent

 

[Admiral Byng]

hmmm...well-written post but I still disagree Admiral

I don't think poor form in India is to do with skills - I actually think it's about confidence, patience and mental preparation

therefore, no-one is seeking to make them better players in the space of a week, just to put them in a headspace that allows them to 'play better' in that timeframe

do you follow me?

For sure I follow what you're saying. But I still disagree.

 

[sherb]

lol, so that's a yes - I will take your silence as assent

No, it's not a yes.

It's telling you how to spell.

 

[Mancey]

thanks Captain Obvious

it really is useful when someone chimes in late with very little context of the discussion and is happy to refuse to read back through the thread to catch up

now that you've cleared up the ongoing confusion around whether a drawn series is actually a drawn series, I think we can safely close this thread

Your suggestion that a drawn series is a series win just because you retained the trophy was ridiculous.

Just as an aside, drawing a series with a weaker side actually causes your test ranking to fall. In essence, series like that one against nz are a loss in the big scheme of things

 

[peternorth]

So.... Pat Howard, CA high performance manager, comes out and says that Watson is only a team man sometimes.

My question... If this is the case and was known to be the case then who picked Watson as vice captain?

If that's the case then the person who selected him as VC should have their head on the chopping block too.

Simply incompetent.

maybe they thought by giving him the vc it would make him a total team player.

let's face it, these days with ipl, sponsorship deals, getting face on tv/papers, twitter, facebook people look out for no 1 and only no 1.

 

[BACCS]

Whilst there are a few calling for extra flyins at this late stage not sure that it is worth it given the test starts on Thursday especially as Haddin has already been flown in and can easily play as a specialised batsman.

My take on the four:
Watson - should be stripped of the vice-captaincy. He is by far and away the worst simply because as vc he should be looking at this and discussing it with Clarke and Arthur anyway. It stinks of arrogance and shows he is unfit to lead his country, thus needs to be replaced immediately.
Pattinson - I think more fits the lazy schoolboy mold. Nothing sinister but as a professional athlete really should be making sure he takes part in match reviews and providing feedback. When you get paid as much as these guys you need to take some responsibility for improving results.
Johnson - I've always thought he was an idiot and this proves it.
Khawaja - is up with Watson for stupidity. He was in a prime position to replace Hughes who has been terrible or at worst get a recall for the fourth test when Watson went home for the birth of his first kid. Has let slip a golden chance for a recall and actions like this put at risk he chances of an Ashes tour.


Saw an interview on Fox with Greg Matthews who made a great comment - "Warne & MacGill didn't like the boot camps when they played. In fact they hated them and publicly criticised them every chance they got, but they still took part and made sure they did them."

Brilliant post, spot on.

 

[beatnik]

Great comeback! So, you can't refute my point, and instead just call me a child.

Which part of my post is wrong?

Loser!

the bit where you grossly and unnecessarily demeaned honest, though low-paid work, whereas most adults with an IQ above 75 know better than that:

- models are highly paid but that doesn't mean they add much to society
- lawyers are highly paid but that doesn't mean they have friends
- drug dealers are highly paid but...

etc etc

(also, if you finish your posts with 'loser' then people will know/assume you have limited life experience)

 

[beatnik]

No, it's not a yes.

It's telling you how to spell.

thanks Shim, I promise the time you have taken to sort out my spelling will not be in vain

 

[BACCS]

From my perspective as a Pom.

Hey, you just focus on beating NZ.

 

[beatnik]

Your suggestion that a drawn series is a series win just because you retained the trophy was ridiculous.

Just as an aside, drawing a series with a weaker side actually causes your test ranking to fall. In essence, series like that one against nz are a loss in the big scheme of things

I have tried to avoid getting hung up on semantics but you seem determined to play in that space so here goes...

tro·phy

/ˈtrōfē/
Noun

1. A cup or other decorative object awarded as a prize for a victory or success.
2. A souvenir of an achievement, esp. a part of an animal taken when hunting.

Synonyms
prize - spoil - booty


so, teams play series to win trophies because they are awarded as a prize for a 'victory' or 'success'...in the event of a draw, the victor is the team that earned the right of incumbency i.e. they are the trophy holder and they need to be beaten, not drawn with, before they have lost...I'm sorry that you find this reality confronting but, equally, I don't give a crap


I would also encourage you to read back through the threads to where this distraction actually came from - it might be painful but at least then will be talking out of a different orifice or, at least, making some informed comment...however, given that you failed to do exactly that in the first place, allow me to cut n paste the post that this all stems from:

as for the team, we went from 5th place to one win from #1 ranking in the world (and if Patto was not injured, we might have won Adelaide and Perth and been sitting atop the rankings)

we beat Sri Lanka, Windies and South Africa away and smashed India and Sri Lanka at home and only shocker was 1 loss to NZ in a series we still won - so not bad for 18 months' work as skipper I would have thought (oh, not to mention he managed to be best batsman in the world in a Bradman-like calendar year whiule doing all of that)

yes, I'm also unhappy with current crisis but let's not rewrite history on what has been a pretty good run as skipper by Pup

in a nutshell, I was not claiming these two series were any great achievement in and of themselves - I was simply refuting the assertion that Pup's 'terrible' captaincy had brought this current debacle on and making the point that the 18 months leading up to this summer had been pretty good

nothing you have said to date has done anything to convince me (or any other reasonable person) that this premise is wrong

(note: just as an aside, while it's true that 'winning the trophy' against NZ dropped us slightly in the ranks, it is also true that 'winning the trophy' against S Africa helped us gain an equal amount so I'm not really sure why you needed to torture us all by pointing it out given that it has a nett effect of zero!)

peace

 

[Ill Chicken]

Actually, I would say the reverse. It's very easy to criticise team management, because the criteria for evaluating their decisions is subjective, speculative and qualitative. It's much harder to look at the hard statistics of a loss and accept that perhaps our players just aren't good enough.

So why the need for a feedback form? If the players aren't good enough, then you want to be building them up in the right direction, not tearing them down and significantly so with three point text message that means absolutely nothing. The captain and the coach lead the team in the direction that they want to travel. Getting everyone travelling in that direction is not what is currently happening with four players goign in the wrong direction. Clearly there is a management issue here.

Admitting that our nation's sporting prowess may not be as good as we like to think is far more damaging to the ego than placing the blame on ostensibly poor decisions by a handful of faceless and easily-replaceable bureaucrats.

So you are saying that Clarke, Arthur, the selectors and administrators are ultimately not responsible for the selections they make, the coaching they provide, the tactics they use and positions that players bat and bowl in? The reasons why questions are not asked of these people is because they get shot down, they never get picked for Australia again, they get blacklisted. That is a real world analogy, not your next comment which is a pile garbage.

It's the same strategy used by every nation who has ever lost a war, right back to the Romans and before. The troops are the finest and bravest in the world - it's the politicians that let them down.

That has to be one of the most moronic analogies I've ever read. Pretty sure that the soldiers don't get a choice in what war they fight. Deserting is punishable by death.

 

[Hayesuel]

Two markedly different reactions.

Pattinson, the only player of the 4 in form: "Yep, I stuffed up. My bad."
Watson, the vice captain: "Might quit Cricket"

Says it all really.

(Probably already posted but get stuffed I'm reading back through 750 posts looking for it to Like)

Who has more to lose, Watto at nearly 32 or Patto at 22? Easy to see why Patto has taken in on the chin. More to it that simply Watson being a sook.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

More respect for Pattinson than that sook Watson.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-australia-2013/content/story/624623.html

 

[Ill Chicken]

maybe they thought by giving him the vc it would make him a total team player.

let's face it, these days with ipl, sponsorship deals, getting face on tv/papers, twitter, facebook people look out for no 1 and only no 1.

And blokes not knowing their place in the side, if you don't bloke smoke up the right guy's arse, you're out next test.

 

[Mancey]

I have tried to avoid getting hung up on semantics but you seem determined to play in that space so here goes...

tro·phy

/ˈtrōfē/
Noun

1. A cup or other decorative object awarded as a prize for a victory or success.
2. A souvenir of an achievement, esp. a part of an animal taken when hunting.

Synonyms

prize - spoil - booty


so, teams play series to win trophies because they are awarded as a prize for a 'victory' or 'success'...in the event of a draw, the victor is the team that earned the right of incumbency i.e. they are the trophy holder and they need to be beaten, not drawn with, before they have lost...I'm sorry that you find this reality confronting but, equally, I don't give a crap


I would also encourage you to read back through the threads to where this distraction actually came from - it might be painful but at least then will be talking out of a different orifice or, at least, making some informed comment...however, given that you failed to do exactly that in the first place, allow me to cut n paste the post that this all stems from:



in a nutshell, I was not claiming these two series were any great achievement in and of themselves - I was simply refuting the assertion that Pup's 'terrible' captaincy had brought this current debacle on and making the point that the 18 months leading up to this summer had been pretty good

nothing you have said to date has done anything to convince me (or any other reasonable person) that this premise is wrong

(note: just as an aside, while it's true that 'winning the trophy' against NZ dropped us slightly in the ranks, it is also true that 'winning the trophy' against S Africa helped us gain an equal amount so I'm not really sure why you needed to torture us all by pointing it out given that it has a nett effect of zero!)

peace

Might have to call this one a draw. Which means in essence, that I won

 

[Caesar]

So why the need for a feedback form? If the players aren't good enough, then you want to be building them up in the right direction, not tearing them down and significantly so with three point text message that means absolutely nothing. The captain and the coach lead the team in the direction that they want to travel. Getting everyone travelling in that direction is not what is currently happening with four players goign in the wrong direction. Clearly there is a management issue here.

You're missing the point of the feedback form. It's not about assigning blame. It's about collectively identifying areas where the team can improve, and engendering a positive attitude going into the next test.

The best way to encourage players to remain motivated is to get them to believe that they have control over the situation they're in. Patting them on the head and saying 'there there, you did your best, they're just better than you' isn't good coaching - even if it's true. These guys need to have something to work towards, and having them identify areas that they as a team can improve gives them a clear objective for the next Test - even if winning currently seems impossible to them.

So you are saying that Clarke, Arthur, the selectors and administrators are ultimately not responsible for the selections they make, the coaching they provide, the tactics they use and positions that players bat and bowl in?

No.

That has to be one of the most moronic analogies I've ever read.

Actually it's not. Sports teams, armies, and others who wear the national uniform are a source of great pride to the people they represent. Acknowledging that they may have intrinsic failings is a very difficult thing for the egos of the general public. It's far more palatable to deflect blame onto the replaceable people in suits behind the scenes.

 

[gbatman]

Sounds like this was a final straw of something that has been looming for a long time. Sounds like there have been discipline and other problems leading up to this that we are unaware of. This do it properly of F off hard arse attitude that is coming from the top of Aussie cricket would please the likes of Allan Border you get the feel.

 

[themidlandmaster]

Hah! nice try Sheb - go ahead and tell yourself whatever you need to in order to salvage some pride

when a top-placed Shield team wins the trophy after drawing the final, they are still the champions for the season...everything else is purely semantic

bringing it back to Pup's tenure as skipper - the point is simply that we've done pretty well since he took over until this summer when the Hussey-less wheels have fallen off a bit

can I safely assume that your continued attempts to focus on irrelevant detail means you agree with this premise?

We didn't win those series, we drew them...

 

[Gak Attack]

yawn!

it's been doing the rounds on Twitter all day and is actually not that funny...

...unless I've missed something...can you explain to me why you think it's funny?

Lol. It's on twitter?

 

[beatnik]

Might have to call this one a draw. Which means in essence, that I won

Hah! very good...I will absolutely pay that (I know it's become a cliche but I laughed out loud!!!)

 

[Hayesuel]

More importantly, there goes any chance of us taking 20 wickets and trying to save the series.

 

[beatnik]

We didn't win those series, we drew them...

yawn...please read previous 5-10 pages

<side note closed>

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

when you win the previous series then you win a drawn series...kind of like the advantage the top-placed team gets in the Shield final

When you what now? George Orwell would approve of that doublespeak.

I know what you mean; but a draw is a draw, a win is a win, and the two are different.

 

[Bob Neil]

Watson = Twat

That is all.

 

[ROOTA#6]

Shane Watson should be very embarrassed about every aspect of his behavior over the last couple of days. I know my old man would kick my arse if he found out that I was being lazy and potentially throwing away opportunities such as Watson seems to be. To me it appears that Watson has never ever been told to pull his head in