4 axed for 3rd test

[Ill Chicken]

You're missing the point of the feedback form. It's not about assigning blame. It's about collectively identifying areas where the team can improve, and engendering a positive attitude going into the next test.

I'm not missing the point, the significance of the lack of feedback from the 2nd test is pivotal for Clarke and Arthur to hang a player or players. So if the significance of this passes on said players, then there is a serious issue with how they themselves are approaching these situations.

The best way to encourage players to remain motivated is to get them to believe that they have control over the situation they're in. Patting them on the head and saying 'there there, you did your best, they're just better than you' isn't good coaching - even if it's true. These guys need to have something to work towards, and having them identify areas that they as a team can improve gives them a clear objective for the next Test - even if winning currently seems impossible to them.

Er isn't that what I said? If one or two players aren't going in the right direction, you knock them on the head, if four players aren't going in the right direction then who is leading the ship and it can't be attributed to just the players being at fault.

No.

Then in positions of management they should be more accountable and highly questioned as a result.

Actually it's not. Sports teams, armies, and others who wear the national uniform are a source of great pride to the people they represent. Acknowledging that they may have intrinsic failings is a very difficult thing for the egos of the general public. It's far more palatable to deflect blame onto the replaceable people in suits behind the scenes.

Complete load of jazz. Armies don't start wars by themselves. Particularly in a republic/democracy. It is a completely ridiculous analogy and holds no merit at all. You're completely off your head if you're saying that a government and politicians aren't accountable for the wars they start and some how it is the individual soldier that is responsible. Has no relevance to this situation whatsoever.

 

[beatnik]

When you what now? George Orwell would approve of that doublespeak.

I know what you mean; but a draw is a draw, a win is a win, and the two are different.

No one has ever 'drawn' the Ashes - why do you think that is?

 

[sherb]

Watson = Twat

That is all.

Twatson.

 

[liam_13]

The most ridiculous thing from this entire fiasco is that Watson was saying how his wife didn't message him about the expected arrival date changing because "she knows playing this test match meant so much too me"

Really, it meant to so much to be playing, yet you couldn't complete a simple task to try to improve the performance of the team in that test match? If it all began through him and Clark having a dummy spit over each other, then clearly playing a test match didn't mean that much if he couldn't think of some resolution to his and Clarks disagreements.

Really poor all round imo - poor management, poor attitude etc.

(Also, do people really think that these players gave up net sessions etc for it? Shit, if I was expected to do the questions, I would have jotted the 3 things down while having tea or watching TV - are people really going to be so one-sided towards Watson and co's perspective that they think they could have been doing net sessions instead of that? Jeez how hard do you think this was to do?)

 

[themidlandmaster]

No one has ever 'drawn' the Ashes - why do you think that is?

There have been five drawn ashes series, in 1938, 1962, 1965, 1968 and 1972

 

[sherb]

There have been five drawn ashes series, in 1938, 1962, 1965, 1968 and 1972

I remember 1972 well.

The series was drawn 2-2.

England retained the Ashes in doing so.

Australia could well have won the series but for a doctored wicket in the fourth test to suit the conveniently recalled Underwood.

 

[themidlandmaster]

I remember 1972 well.

The series was drawn 2-2.

England retained the Ashes in doing so.

Australia could well have won the series but for a doctored wicket in the fourth test to suit the conveniently recalled Underwood.

I found this out when looking up the last time Australia lost three ashes series in a row including two at home. Hasn't happened since the 1880's!

 

[Caesar]

Er isn't that what I said? If one or two players aren't going in the right direction, you knock them on the head, if four players aren't going in the right direction then who is leading the ship and it can't be attributed to just the players being at fault.

And disciplining them is the way to put them back on the right track. "Everybody's doing it" isn't a reason to abrogate personal responsibility.

Then in positions of management they should be more accountable and highly questioned as a result.

Who says they are not? Stop deflecting. It's not a question of whether it's the management or the players at fault. All I took issue with is your idiotic claim that people are more inclined to blame the players than the administrators. This thread is plenty of evidence that the reverse is true.

Complete load of jazz. Armies don't start wars by themselves. Particularly in a republic/democracy. It is a completely ridiculous analogy and holds no merit at all. You're completely off your head if you're saying that a government and politicians aren't accountable for the wars they start and some how it is the individual soldier that is responsible. Has no relevance to this situation whatsoever.

 

[whatis]

Good work by Patto copping the punishment on the chin. Watto could learn a thing or two from him.

The Australian fans are the ones being punished.

I would have liked to have seen what would have happened if Pattinson had quit too now actually. What with him being our best bowler and the only one of the four with probably any say/power at the moment. Would have made things very interesting.

 

[ManWithNoName]

Lol. It's on twitter?

Doesn't surprise me. I was going to steal it and claim it, but decided I couldn't be bothered.

 

[Plugger35]

This has a lot to with Watson and Clarke hating each other IMO. Dumb not to do the homework they were given but what the **** are they doing homework for anyway. The punishment doesn't fit the crime IMO.

Both Clarke and Watson can be pretty easy blokes to dislike at times so it probably isn't a big surprise to hear that they don't like each other or that other players don't like them. Can't be a very happy or united team if the captain and vice captain don't get along.

 

[Doodlesweaver]

The Australian fans are the ones being punished.

I would have liked to have seen what would have happened if Pattinson had quit too now actually. What with him being our best bowler and the only one of the four with probably any say/power at the moment. Would have made things very interesting.

As Pattinson has been so lauded for apologising for not jumping through a fairly pointless hoop, I want to see more apologies and for players not doing things that could have made a real difference.

Like for starters, ****ing Warner and Hughes can apologise for playing sweep shots when they were both told not to. Surely that is disrespecting their teammates and the coaches as much as not filling in their paperwork on time?

And I'm STILL waiting for even the slightest sign of remorse from Haddin for that shot in SA.

 

[sherb]

The Australian fans are the ones being punished.

I would have liked to have seen what would have happened if Pattinson had quit too now actually. What with him being our best bowler and the only one of the four with probably any say/power at the moment. Would have made things very interesting.

By dropping four players for one test?

Two of whom haven't been in the side this series anyway and who many here don't like or rate and one who is a consistently under-performing batsmen in recent times.

The only real loss for this one test is Patto. And he has manned up and taken some responsibility, unlike our esteemed vice-captain.

I hardly feel like I am being punished by what has occurred.

 

[OzBomber]

I thought Pat Howard knew Watson 'reasonably well'? :/

 

[Bradesmaen]

New captain thanks. This one is a terrible on and off field leader. He's trying too hard to imprint himself on the team after Ponting and hence why he got the older players noses out of joint.

 

[sherb]

Both Clarke and Watson can be pretty easy blokes to dislike at times so it probably isn't a big surprise to hear that they don't like each other or that other players don't like them. Can't be a very happy or united team if the captain and vice captain don't get along.

If they don't get along; and if that is causing problems/disharmony within the team; and/or if that is affecting the performance of the team as a result.....

Then it is an indictment on the pair of them.

 

[sherb]

New captain thanks. This one is a terrible on and off field leader. He's trying too hard to imprint himself on the team after Ponting and hence why he got the older players noses out of joint.

Who?

Do we bring back Bob Simpson again?

 

[Gough]

New captain thanks. This one is a terrible on and off field leader. He's trying too hard to imprint himself on the team after Ponting and hence why he got the older players noses out of joint.

Given that Watson, the vice captain, is en route to whichever State he has chosen to call home at the moment, who would you suggest captain the team?

 

[Gough]

Who?

Do we bring back Bob Simpson again?

If you asked Bobby he'd say he could still do it. Why stop there anyway Neil Harvey is a spiritely 80 odd.

 

[Bradesmaen]

Given that Watson, the vice captain, is en route to whichever State he has chosen to call home at the moment, who would you suggest captain the team?

He lives in NSW. I'd get Bailey over there to Captain. The guy actually knows how to Captain, how to get blokes going, pretty clear from his captaincy of Tasmania. Not to mention he's a very talented batsman.

 

[Doodlesweaver]

Given that Watson, the vice captain, is en route to whichever State he has chosen to call home at the moment, who would you suggest captain the team?

I don't think it matters. not on this tour anyway. Regardless of what Clarke does on the field, things aren't going to go well.

 

[ROOTA#6]

He lives in NSW. I'd get Bailey over there to Captain. The guy actually knows how to Captain, how to get blokes going, pretty clear from his captaincy of Tasmania. Not to mention he's a very talented batsman.

I'd be getting bailey in the side for sure but not as captain. Would probably make him vc. At least you know that Bailey would appreciate the opportunity

 

[Gough]

He lives in NSW. I'd get Bailey over there to Captain. The guy actually knows how to Captain, how to get blokes going, pretty clear from his captaincy of Tasmania. Not to mention he's a very talented batsman.

So you would get a bloke that hasn't played a single Test and insert him as captain into the most inexperienced side that Australia has fielded in 25 years?

 

[Bradesmaen]

So you would get a bloke that hasn't played a single Test and insert him as captain into the most inexperienced side that Australia has fielded in 25 years?

Yes. That is what I think of Clarke and his "Captaincy"

 

[Gough]

Yes. That is what I think of Clarke and his "Captaincy"

I think you are probably being a touch reactionary.