Player Watch Josh Wagner - delisted

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Tempy Tiger said:
The alternative on Wagner and White is that they've been out of the AFL side for a long time so need a bit of grace to get used to the speed again, as well as the structure. And the structure of the whole side was off anyway with all of our outs. Not an easy way to come back in and perform well. I hope they both get another week at least.
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You cant play guys who performed that poorly, i understand a bit of rust but they were horrific. Will be disappointed if either of them are named.
 
A11dAtP0w3R said:
You cant play guys who performed that poorly, i understand a bit of rust but they were horrific. Will be disappointed if either of them are named.
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Exactly, there is being a bit rusty and rushing a few disposals and getting caught out of position a few times, and then there is what those two were last night. Constant fumbles, constant turn over, constantly going to ground, constantly not sticking tackles, constantly being left behind by opposition. There is just no redeeming factor in either's performances.

Probably highlighted how clueless Bruce McAvaney is as well, spent ages talking about how good Wagner looked, clearly completely ignoring the fact that everything he touched turned to s**t.
 

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Praetorian said:
fumbles, below average skills, slow.

The worst thing though was his complete lack of intensity, just constantly jogging around even when he's near a contest. He's one of the few players who didnt just play 6 days ago in perth and he looked lazy.

No gold to be found in this one, delist
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Yep, looked very very casual last night. Looked like a player of Neeld's era just jogging around watching the contest
 
Tempy Tiger said:
The alternative on Wagner and White is that they've been out of the AFL side for a long time so need a bit of grace to get used to the speed again, as well as the structure. And the structure of the whole side was off anyway with all of our outs. Not an easy way to come back in and perform well. I hope they both get another week at least.
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I don't like really going hard at players as I am a positive person. I stuck fat with both McDonald's this year and that is documented on this site. Wagner and White were beyond even my faith it was a criminal level of underperformance, I haven't seen much I think says premiership level player out of either.
 
Its a little funny how hard people have gone at Wagner. White I see nothing with and will be delisted. Wagner was rusty as * but so were Vince/Lewis/Melk/Hibberd and alot of good players. Atleast Wagner made it to contests and tried to be attacking with his kicking, he could have taken the piss easy option like Vince Hibberd and Lewis and go down the line every ******* time he got the ball but he took risky options which blew up in his face. Whether or not wagner makes it ( he aint best 22 in a fit side ) you cant ignore how anonymous half the blokes were and smash one of the blokes who tried to do something all night.

Watch the replay, Vince and Hibberd in particular kicked long every time they got the ball while Wagner tried to look inside but our movement was so s**t that kicks that were hitting the target were getting picked off by swans players all night.
 
Topkent said:
Its a little funny how hard people have gone at Wagner. White I see nothing with and will be delisted. Wagner was rusty as **** but so were Vince/Lewis/Melk/Hibberd and alot of good players. Atleast Wagner made it to contests and tried to be attacking with his kicking, he could have taken the piss easy option like Vince Hibberd and Lewis and go down the line every ******* time he got the ball but he took risky options which blew up in his face. Whether or not wagner makes it ( he aint best 22 in a fit side ) you cant ignore how anonymous half the blokes were and smash one of the blokes who tried to do something all night.

Watch the replay, Vince and Hibberd in particular kicked long every time they got the ball while Wagner tried to look inside but our movement was so s**t that kicks that were hitting the target were getting picked off by swans players all night.
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Hibberd has been of our best players since he came in and most seem to think Vince won't be playing beyond this year. I think the frustration is also due to the strange selection (Which we now have an explanation for). I haven't rated White since I watched him last year against the Saints so my thoughts haven't changed on him after Friday.
 
Topkent said:
Its a little funny how hard people have gone at Wagner. White I see nothing with and will be delisted. Wagner was rusty as **** but so were Vince/Lewis/Melk/Hibberd and alot of good players. Atleast Wagner made it to contests and tried to be attacking with his kicking, he could have taken the piss easy option like Vince Hibberd and Lewis and go down the line every ******* time he got the ball but he took risky options which blew up in his face. Whether or not wagner makes it ( he aint best 22 in a fit side ) you cant ignore how anonymous half the blokes were and smash one of the blokes who tried to do something all night.

Watch the replay, Vince and Hibberd in particular kicked long every time they got the ball while Wagner tried to look inside but our movement was so s**t that kicks that were hitting the target were getting picked off by swans players all night.
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The problem with Wagner is that you know exactly where he will struggle - and it's the absolute basics. He can do some nice things in his running patterns and get the ball clear nicely - but he fumbles basic chest marks and his field kicking is Tom McDonald 2011 edition on an acid trip. And he does it constantly, with no improvement. He did it from day dot last year, he did it in his earlier match this year and he did it on Friday. He belongs in the bin with Gillies, Weetra and Jace Bode.
 
schmuttt said:
Hibberd has been of our best players since he came in and most seem to think Vince won't be playing beyond this year. I think the frustration is also due to the strange selection (Which we now have an explanation for). I haven't rated White since I watched him last year against the Saints so my thoughts haven't changed on him after Friday.
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Hibberd has a shitload of credits I agree, but Id just like to see anyone on here who thinks they can analyse a game acknowledge that Wagner was the only one taking on risky kicks against the Swans, alot of his turnovers were corridor which sucks and looks ******* s**t but he was atleast trying to break open the game. Our senior blokes belted it down the line where we lost the contested footy and then gave up another I50. Wash rinse repeat all game. Wagners kicks were through the middle but due to the lack of movement of our tired forwards were getting picked off by the Swans zone. Its one thing to s**t on blokes who miss a guy 30m in the open but when you take on that corridor kick it might be destined to hit the forward on the chest until the angled zone defender reads it and takes it. I saw alot of that.
 
Topkent said:
Hibberd has a shitload of credits I agree, but Id just like to see anyone on here who thinks they can analyse a game acknowledge that Wagner was the only one taking on risky kicks against the Swans, alot of his turnovers were corridor which sucks and looks ******* s**t but he was atleast trying to break open the game. Our senior blokes belted it down the line where we lost the contested footy and then gave up another I50. Wash rinse repeat all game. Wagners kicks were through the middle but due to the lack of movement of our tired forwards were getting picked off by the Swans zone. Its one thing to s**t on blokes who miss a guy 30m in the open but when you take on that corridor kick it might be destined to hit the forward on the chest until the angled zone defender reads it and takes it. I saw alot of that.
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I get where you're coming from but when you miss those kicks all night (And they have repeated scoring shots directly from the turnovers) it is a really bad look.

He is contracted anyway so I don't think we'd delist him and I actually didn't think his 2016 was that bad, but he has to go out now I think. I thought White was worse for someone who is actually meant to be a beautiful kick.
 
schmuttt said:
I get where you're coming from but when you miss those kicks all night (And they have repeated scoring shots directly from the turnovers) it is a really bad look.

He is contracted anyway so I don't think we'd delist him and I actually didn't think his 2016 was that bad, but he has to go out now I think. I thought White was worse for someone who is actually meant to be a beautiful kick.
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Problem was that our backs were just bombing it to contests and the swans were winning the contested footy flicking it to the other side and getting another entry. Atleast Wagners kicks were giving us a chance to score. The rest of the team was bombing it then setting back up for another entry as it was coming straight back.

Im not saying he should be without, but I think he wasnt the worst of our problem which this thread feels like. Probably wouldnt have played either if the VFL boys werent on the turps. Our forward line hardly presented an option all night.
White was just bad yeah.
 
I've seen a bit of White at VFL level - he's got some traits, wouldn't be too harsh on him yet.

Wagner may have tried to make something happen all night, but almost each time he made a poor decision - which is the concern.
 
ThePuppetMaster said:
I've seen a bit of White at VFL level - he's got some traits, wouldn't be too harsh on him yet.

Wagner may have tried to make something happen all night, but almost each time he made a poor decision - which is the concern.
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Too me it looked like our forwards were so tired and well just s**t that it was impossible to kick it out of defence because the Swans players set up so easily. We didnt run hard to spread the zone and we didnt have any run from behind. It was either kick it too a risky target and turn it over or kick it down the line and turn it over.

In sayin that Wagner would be a serviceable depth player when we arent missing 10 blokes.
 

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Tempy Tiger said:
The alternative on Wagner and White is that they've been out of the AFL side for a long time so need a bit of grace to get used to the speed again, as well as the structure. And the structure of the whole side was off anyway with all of our outs. Not an easy way to come back in and perform well. I hope they both get another week at least.
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That's one thing that seems apparent. VFL is good for guys who are coming back from injury for a run, but guys who are playing there regularly are coming in and struggling with the speed and pressure of top level football. Stretch was playing far better at the start of the year, came in after being dropped to the magoos and looked nervous and off the pace.
 
ThePuppetMaster said:
Wagner may have tried to make something happen all night, but almost each time he made a poor decision - which is the concern.
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This. All well and good to say that Wagner is "taking the game on", but if the side is moving badly and struggling to win contests, then don't try the spear 40 metre pass to a 1 on 3 in the corridor. Repeatedly.

Don't really have an issue with White or Wagner as back ups, but if they play anywhere near that badly again, one of them should go on the scrap heap and we should be looking for either a ready made replacement or a good draftee to play those HBF / wing roles.
 
Agree he wasn't great and jury well and truly out but first game back in the seniors in an undermanned and tired side against a raging Sydney who's pressure was first class - bloody tough assignment!!
Not saying he's going to make it and I personally think he played a stinker but I'm not hanging him on that performance.
 
Can't wait for the Wagner Cup when we play North - appropriately to be held in Hobart, truly the Josh/Corey Wagner of cities.
 
TheCount said:
Probably highlighted how clueless Bruce McAvaney is as well, spent ages talking about how good Wagner looked, clearly completely ignoring the fact that everything he touched turned to s**t.
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This baffled me, several times it was all "gee Wagner has looked good tonight hasn't he!?!?" Rubbish.
 
Jesus I can honestly see this bloke costing us a win. Gonna make some unnecessary turnovers and Carlton will pounce.
Honestly don't see what the upside is for him. He's a great athlete but absolutely subpar at any skills you actually need for footy.
Him and White were poor, White is poor for his size defensively but White is a good kick unlike Wagner. If you combined both you'd have a half decent defender at best.
 
Xhoquelin said:
Jesus I can honestly see this bloke costing us a win. Gonna make some unnecessary turnovers and Carlton will pounce.
Honestly don't see what the upside is for him. He's a great athlete but absolutely subpar at any skills you actually need for footy.
Him and White were poor, White is poor for his size defensively but White is a good kick unlike Wagner. If you combined both you'd have a half decent defender at best.
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His upside is that he is very, very courageous, he is really good one on one, can play on small sand talls, and is very much team first. Yeah he's not perfect but he's not a spud. People need to be a little less enthusiastic to slag off our own players IMO.
 
Tempy Tiger said:
His upside is that he is very, very courageous, he is really good one on one, can play on small sand talls, and is very much team first. Yeah he's not perfect but he's not a spud. People need to be a little less enthusiastic to slag off our own players IMO.
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He was poor against the Swans but I thought he had some reasonable games last year. Certainly has showed a lot more than White.
 
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