Player Watch #44: Cameron Zurhaar - [AFL.com] NM offers 5yr deal - CZ interest from SYD/GC - CZ mgr says 'wants to see improvement' & 'team success'

[spurs]

How patient, though? We've been in this hole since 2017, and in what year do you realistically think we'll be playing finals again? 2026? 2027?

At some point we have to stop looking at what we might be able to do at some unspecified point in the future and start actually achieving something.

This is not particularly about Cameron Zurhaar, it's more about the strategy involved. The one comment that comes up most often is the need to have experienced players to shield the young players as they develop. The next most common comment is that we should be turning out experience players because we might get a decent draft pick in return. Do we not see how illogical this is?

Zurhaar is far from perfect, but the last thing we need right now is for experienced players to walk out the door. If it means we pay him a couple of hundred grand more than he's worth each year, so be it.

I've mentioned a few years. Unfortunately that's where we are at right now but we have a huge chance IMO to draft guns for the future and become a great team in 3-4 years. I see us challenging the 8 in 2027. Then we will get the icing for a few FAs who will want to come to us. We can only achieve building elite talent in the next 2 years and then going for the 8.

The only player IMO in the next year that I don't want to let go or be traded is LDU. It would hurt compared to CZ. I don't mind getting a Boak/Pendles/ Ward for a year next year to set standards for the young guns. The senior players that we have right now are terrible.

Getting back to CZ, he will be 27 in a few weeks. He won't be part of our next premiership and I don't like the idea of him using our club to get more money when we gave him the opportunity as a rookie. He can GTFO. Would you rather pay CZ $850k (a few hundred grand more as you stated) a year for 5 years or a gun player at pick 2? I want pick 2 every day of the week.

 

[Ball Dont Lie]

No way the AFL “formula” compensates us with pick 2. No matter the offer. No matter the money. No matter the years. This will be the year the formula changes.

 

[big_e]

Larkey as key tall and Duursma to play as a quasi key tall.
Ford, Curtis and George/Stephenson as medium/general forwards. Then midfielder rotating such as Sheezel. So overall, not great but not terrible.

Ideally we’d need to trade in a KPF unless Sellers or Maley markedly improve. Then it looks much better - 2 KPFs. Duusma, Curtis and Ford as medium/general forwards. Then Sheezel/rotating midfielder.

Duursma would get slaughtered. George hasn't played yet. Stephenson hasn't been a reliable goalkicker since his first year. And trading in a KPF is a very heroic assumption.

Other than that, it all sounds great...

 

[big_e]

I've mentioned a few years. Unfortunately that's where we are at right now but we have a huge chance IMO to draft guns for the future and become a great team in 3-4 years. I see us challenging the 8 in 2027. Then we will get the icing for a few FAs who will want to come to us. We can only achieve building elite talent in the next 2 years and then going for the 8.

The only player IMO in the next year that I don't want to let go or be traded is LDU. It would hurt compared to CZ. I don't mind getting a Boak/Pendles/ Ward for a year next year to set standards for the young guns. The senior players that we have right now are terrible.

Getting back to CZ, he will be 27 in a few weeks. He won't be part of our next premiership and I don't like the idea of him using our club to get more money when we gave him the opportunity as a rookie. He can GTFO. Would you rather pay CZ $850k (a few hundred grand more as you stated) a year for 5 years or a gun player at pick 2? I want pick 2 every day of the week.

We've been "a great team in 3-4 years" for, well, 3-4 years. And if we keep letting experienced players out the door to be replaced by draft picks, we'll be 3-4 years away in another 3-4 years from now.

 

[Twangler]

Duursma would get slaughtered. George hasn't played yet. Stephenson hasn't been a reliable goalkicker since his first year. And trading in a KPF is a very heroic assumption.

Other than that, it all sounds great...

Can’t disagree with any of that hence the need for a decent KPF. Drafting one is all well and good but won’t help next year. Outside of trading may need to consider best state league option if we don’t have confidence in Sellers, CCJ and Maley.

Re Stephenson and George, hoping that Harvey can press his case to give more competition for that spot.

 

[spurs]

We've been "a great team in 3-4 years" for, well, 3-4 years. And if we keep letting experienced players out the door to be replaced by draft picks, we'll be 3-4 years away in another 3-4 years from now.

We started the rebuild 2-3 years ago. Experienced players let go after 3-4 years? Like who? Maybe McKay who we received Duursma

 

[The Law]

OK, assume Zurhaar goes. What does our forward line look like next year?

small pressure forward (recruit) - Larkey - Curtis
Eddie Ford - Sellers - Duursma

Potentially swapping Larkey with Sellers.
Less than ideal but it's not like Zurhaar would be this huge void to fill in our forward. He's not giving us much at the moment. The plan should be to recruit another Tall forward. I'd get 2. One that's ready and can chop out the ruck (someone that isn't CCJ) and a developing tall.

We desperately need a small pressure forward (i'd like 2) and a KPF

 

[speedy]

Losing Zurhaar is going to hurt. The sad fact though is he hasn't even had a good career to date. Taken him 6 years just to get semi-fit.

 

[blackshadow]

Can only dream! but in what world would a premiership contender trade out arguably their most important player for a draft pick.

Taylor was an example. Hasn't there been talk that he's a little loose in his seat at GWS?

 

[FootySmartSimpson]

OK, assume Zurhaar goes. What does our forward line look like next year?

Duursma Maley/New KPF Ford
George Larkey Simpkin

Not really that much worse than it is now, just with more development into Duursma, George and Ford.

The payoff might be a midfield giant and young Key forward.

 

[travelli]

I've mentioned a few years. Unfortunately that's where we are at right now but we have a huge chance IMO to draft guns for the future and become a great team in 3-4 years. I see us challenging the 8 in 2027. Then we will get the icing for a few FAs who will want to come to us. We can only achieve building elite talent in the next 2 years and then going for the 8.

The only player IMO in the next year that I don't want to let go or be traded is LDU. It would hurt compared to CZ. I don't mind getting a Boak/Pendles/ Ward for a year next year to set standards for the young guns. The senior players that we have right now are terrible.

Getting back to CZ, he will be 27 in a few weeks. He won't be part of our next premiership and I don't like the idea of him using our club to get more money when we gave him the opportunity as a rookie. He can GTFO. Would you rather pay CZ $850k (a few hundred grand more as you stated) a year for 5 years or a gun player at pick 2? I want pick 2 every day of the week.

Agree partly, in that I wouldn't hold it against CZ if he left.

Makes you realise how selfish it was for management to sack experienced players and then tank for draft picks to potentially build up a team that could contest for flags.

What about the poor in between guys who are then playing 5-6 seasons of non competitive footy, only to be delisted when the side is finally up to competing again. Not much in it for them. Not many memories at the end of the career

 

[FootySmartSimpson]

We deserve everything we get if we decide to keep Zurhaar vs compensation of pick 2.

If he legitimately has $800k+ per year offers from multiple clubs, that's certainly close enough to the Band 1 threshold to manipulate it to our favour.

We get Smillie + Trainor probably.

I know that Smillie is huge, but does he have the strength and stamina to compete straight away (projecting this far out)?

 

[RossHenshaw]

We deserve everything we get if we decide to keep Zurhaar vs compensation of pick 2.

If he legitimately has $800k+ per year offers from multiple clubs, that's certainly close enough to the Band 1 threshold to manipulate it to our favour.

We get Smillie + Trainor probably.

 

[chubbspeterson]

We've been "a great team in 3-4 years" for, well, 3-4 years. And if we keep letting experienced players out the door to be replaced by draft picks, we'll be 3-4 years away in another 3-4 years from now.

I don't want to lose him but his role can be somewhat covered by Ford/Harvey/George/Sellers short term.
I suspect 800k would only trigger Band 2 (pick 19) based on the new CBA so it might be a match and trade.
Blues found Cottrell from VFL so you can find a mature replacements for CZ if he leaves.

 

[Zondor]

Did he get a brownlow vote for that game?

:smirk look

 

[giantroo]

Full podcast - from 11min mark

 

[shimaburnsgrieg]

I've mentioned a few years. Unfortunately that's where we are at right now but we have a huge chance IMO to draft guns for the future and become a great team in 3-4 years. I see us challenging the 8 in 2027. Then we will get the icing for a few FAs who will want to come to us. We can only achieve building elite talent in the next 2 years and then going for the 8.

The only player IMO in the next year that I don't want to let go or be traded is LDU. It would hurt compared to CZ. I don't mind getting a Boak/Pendles/ Ward for a year next year to set standards for the young guns. The senior players that we have right now are terrible.

Getting back to CZ, he will be 27 in a few weeks. He won't be part of our next premiership and I don't like the idea of him using our club to get more money when we gave him the opportunity as a rookie. He can GTFO. Would you rather pay CZ $850k (a few hundred grand more as you stated) a year for 5 years or a gun player at pick 2? I want pick 2 every day of the week.

He turns 26 in a few weeks not 27 - but I agree with the rest of your 3rd para - no problem whatsoever with CZ leaving - even for Band 2 - pick 19.

 

[Harris 10]

He turns 26 in a few weeks not 27 - but I agree with the rest of your 3rd para - no problem whatsoever with CZ leaving - even for Band 2 - pick 19.

And then 19 pushes out to 25 to 30.

 

[ChairmanZia]

I don't want to lose him but his role can be somewhat covered by Ford/Harvey/George/Sellers short term.
I suspect 800k would only trigger Band 2 (pick 19) based on the new CBA so it might be a match and trade.
Blues found Cottrell from VFL so you can find a mature replacements for CZ if he leaves.

Not only that zurhaar leaving might be the very catalyst for improvement in that it means the rest of the team need to evolve. We have currently hit the ceiling with the seniors not stepping up so a few of them going means the rest need to step up.

 

[ChairmanZia]

No way the AFL “formula” compensates us with pick 2. No matter the offer. No matter the money. No matter the years. This will be the year the formula changes.

Errrr if zurhaar gets us band 1, and we finish last, we get pick 2.

How did you think we got pick 3 for mackay last year?

 

[chubbspeterson]

Not only that zurhaar leaving might be the very catalyst for improvement in that it means the rest of the team need to evolve. We have currently hit the ceiling with the seniors not stepping up so a few of them going means the rest need to step up.

In the end its up to Cam. Larkey/2nd KF/Duursma/Curtis and two pressure mosquitos might be a more balanced F50.
Where does that leave Fordy's fit long term? Does Curtis or Zane rotate more midfield?
We don't mark it enough or bring enough F50 pressure that's for sure.

 

[Makeshift Park]

Letting a good experienced player go cheaply in our position would be pretty bizarre. Even with the amount of forward flankers we have.

So, given our salary cap situation, I hope we wouldn't let CZ go for anything less than a first rounder.

 

[hilly]

Reckon matching the offer and forcing a trade is the way to go if he decides to leave.

 

[ChairmanZia]

In the end its up to Cam. Larkey/2nd KF/Duursma/Curtis and two pressure mosquitos might be a more balanced F50.
Where does that leave Fordy's fit long term? Does Curtis or Zane rotate more midfield?
We don't mark it enough or bring enough F50 pressure that's for sure.

At the moment, there are problems everywhere. This will improve as the general profile of the team matures.

Zurhaar is in no man's land in that he is not tall enough to be a 2nd tall and not quick and fit enough to play midfield. He also doesn't work hard enough to be a consistent medium forward ala james hird.

We played zurhaar as the secondary key fwd during the bottoming out years and you could say in retrospect that we've gotten the most out of zurhaar. He won't get any better and would cost us 800k per year.

Ford, duursma will take over. We do need some specialist fwd to cover the niches.

The team of course need to apply far more whole ground defensive pressure, yes, most definitely.

 

[lockheed]

Letting a good experienced player go cheaply in our position would be pretty bizarre. Even with the amount of forward flankers we have.

So, given our salary cap situation, I hope we wouldn't let CZ go for anything less than a first rounder.

I agree, but ... would you match an offer of 5 years at $800k? I don't think Cam is worth that money. I'd match it only to try to get a 1st round pick back as compensation.