Past #6: Jason Horne-Francis [Part II] - NM trade JHF & #1 for Sheezel, Wardlaw, CHarvey & PA 2023 1st - you were never one of us

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Chewy316 said:
I think there's a lot to unpack here. It's a shrewd move from Port there's no doubting that. At the same time, it says a lot about the current state of North. You'd like to think that you can put a strong enough philosophy, culture, whatever you want to call it such that your #1 pick isn't looking for an exit 1 year into his initial deal. You can say that this is Port's "fault" all you like, but I'm sure you could agree that there would have been plenty of instances in which teams have tried to poach top players after a single year and those players have said "thanks but no thanks."

No one lost any sleep when Tom Boyd was poached by the Bulldogs at the end of 2014 after having spent just the 1 year at GWS after being drafted #1 overall. The same will happen here and everyone will move on eventually.



My thoughts on Koch have long been documented. He has his finger on the pulse more than many realise but he needs to shut up in the media about Port because on that front he is a blubbering embarrassment. He seemingly carries his TV breakfast personality over to media spots when discussing AFL matters and it truly is terrible.



The deal was almost done Sunday night prior to all the news breaking which at the time was pick 8 and a future first rounder. It's easy to demand Butters, Georgiades and a slew of first round picks, but anyone rationally looking at the situation knows it won't happen. Rightly or wrongly, this deal will get done. It will probably end up being unders for what North would ideally want but they'll still sell the high picks and change as a win given the circumstances, and can potentially on trade those picks for established players.
If I was a North fan there'd probably be a small part of me saying no deal he can suck it up here next season and then move on - but logically that only slows down North's rebuild given he's out the door in 12 months anyway.
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Just * off
 
Chewy Chewman said:
The thing that really sh*ts me. Horne Francis would’ve had plenty of discussions with us in the lead up to being drafted. At anytime he could’ve just been honest and told us his preference would be to remain in SA.

We would’ve then been able work through deals for that number 1 pick and when the Crows offer came we could’ve accepted that.

Now we are left with egg on our face and scrambling for a half cooked solution.
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It doesn’t work that way if Port have been in his ear pre draft. If he elects to stay in SA, right now he is an Adelaide Crow.

That’s what makes me think we have been played from the start. Getting to North was always going to be the easiest way he could actually get to Port. Port didn’t have the capital last year, so it’s not hard to believe that this could have all been set up before he was drafted.

The fact that it’s come out now that Port have been in conversations with his Manager and family for most of the year, the massive contract offer out of the blue (which is bullshit) and the sudden backflip on the eve of the trade period after only 12 months into a contract doesn’t just happen on the spur of the moment. This has been pre planned a long way out and we may have been played for fools.

That’s why I hope the club takes them to the cleaners. They are going to have more fallout for not getting the deal done, than if they pay overs.

Getting a first year draftee to request a trade and then not coming to the party to make the deal happen, is not going to be a good result for Port.

I actually think the club should be on the front foot and put it out there that if he wants to leave so badly that we will listen to all deals and if one comes along and he rejects the trade, he stays contracted. As it stands Port can try and * around with this deal and we should be forcing them to get moving. I wouldn’t be against us putting a deadline on any dealings. They will try and take this to the last minute to see if we blink.
 
Roosurgence said:
Piece it all together.

Port have been into him all year and probably advised him to act like a spoilt brat so they had a chance to move on him.

If JHF had been a model citizen and attempting to buy into the club, then he would see his contract out.

It’s just a different form of tanking, except its the player tanking so the club moves him on.

A new form of draft tampering. They would have been saying go there, cause some trouble and don’t give it your best and don’t worry they will look at moving you on when we ask at the end of the year.

JHF couldn’t say I don’t want to move out of SA before the draft, because then Adelaide take him when we pass.

Given what’s happened all year, somethings a bit off here and it wouldn’t surprise me at all that this was the plan all along.
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This is sounding bloody obvious, we all watched him in the SANFL last year his 2nd and 3rd efforts, his defensive efforts, we saw none of that this year. We made excuses for him “oh he’s just a kid”
It was so disappointing the best available kid last year turns into a softc@ck and we get no consolation for being s**t besides a few draft picks a year later.
Oh well we are NORTH MELBOURNE we reload and go again.


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Chewy316 said:
No one lost any sleep when Tom Boyd was poached by the Bulldogs at the end of 2014 after having spent just the 1 year at GWS after being drafted #1 overall. The same will happen here and everyone will move on eventually.
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Rightly or wrongly I think that was influenced by Griffen wanting to move to GWS prior to that.
 
It strengthens our case for a proper priority pick next year.
 
Rooboy 96 said:
This is sounding bloody obvious, we all watched him in the SANFL last year his 2nd and 3rd efforts, his defensive efforts, we saw none of that this year. We made excuses for him “oh he’s just a kid”
It was so disappointing the best available kid last year turns into a softc@ck and we get no consolation for being s**t besides a few draft picks a year later.
Oh well we are NORTH MELBOURNE we reload and go again.


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There were also no instances of arguing with teammates, body language issues, just giving up on the contest. Add in the issues of being unprofessional in his preparation and the fact that he never really gelled with teammates, brings a lot of questions around if he was ever committed to make this work.

It’s like he totally changed his personality in the space of an off season.

I’ve never seen a first year player wall into a club and create the issues this kid did. It’s like he went out of his way to piss the club off.
 
Luke72 said:
It strengthens our case for a proper priority pick next year.
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If he had dealt with the club properly and told them he wanted to go back home in his exit meeting, then it would have made the AFL consider a better package than they did. The timing was the worst timing imaginable, which makes me think it was all set up a long way out.

He pretty much ****ed off at the end of the season and didn’t interact with teammates. To all those that say he just wanted to go home, they have a massive break now, if he was invested in this team he would have gone away with the boys and then gone home.

He had no intention of coming back. He had packed his bags as soon as the season and club commitments were done.
 
Kangaroos4eva said:
Haven't seen you this angry since the 2015 prelim.
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I think we are all angry. I think we are very justified in being very angry.

I think back to this time last year, when having suffered through a pretty horrible season, then seeing some small but apparently good signs late in the year, we were buoyed by the romance of this "shiny new champion in waiting", that we looked forward to grabbing at Pick 1 in the draft.

And that happened and he went to bed that night wearing his North Melbourne jumper, after having told us, he thought he could really help us and was looking forward to the challenge. And we thought, how good is this. Can't wait for season 2022 to start.

And then to the season and the early signs were good and despite all of the other horrors of this wretched 2022 season we have endured - and thank-you to our wonderful girls, who are representing us with great heart and pride and have delivered us 4 wins so far and some long overdue happiness - now this young man we thought would help lead us to the promised land, has walked out on us and in the process thrust a dagger deep into our hearts.

So yeah, we are angry and I think we are justified in being angry; very, very, very, angry indeed.
 
Billy Not Really said:
Occam’s razor mate.

it’s way more likely that it comes down to him being a genuine sook who would only show ‘leadership’ like qualities as was touted in his draft year if things went his way. Which is what sooks do.

I don’t buy it. Connecting dots doesn’t mean the dots are really there, that’s partly what makes a conspiracy a conspiracy.
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Thinking about this a bit today, I think you are likely right, the kid probably believed his own hype and just reacts at having the slightest thing not go his way....................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................or is it just too painful to entertain the possibility that a knucklehead teenage bogan from South Australia who can barely string a sentence together, and his reality TV star manager just played us like a goddamn fiddle :persevere:
 
Horace said:
I think we are all angry. I think we are very justified in being very angry.

I think back to this time last year, when having suffered through a pretty horrible season, then seeing some small but apparently good signs late in the year, we were buoyed by the romance of this "shiny new champion in waiting", that we looked forward to grabbing at Pick 1 in the draft.

And that happened and he went to bed that night wearing his North Melbourne jumper, after having told us, he thought he could really help us and was looking forward to the challenge. And we thought, how good is this. Can't wait for season 2022 to start.

And then to the season and the early signs were good and despite all of the other horrors of this wretched 2022 season we have endured - and thank-you to our wonderful girls, who are representing us with great heart and pride and have delivered us 4 wins so far and some long overdue happiness - now this young man we thought would help lead us to the promised land, has walked out on us and in the process thrust a dagger deep into our hearts.

So yeah, we are angry and I think we are justified in being angry; very, very, very, angry indeed.
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He hasn’t thrust a dagger into our hearts, he’s just a campaigner of a person that has white anted the club.

I hope the club treats him like the campaigner he is and makes this anything but easy for him.

The media are even picking up on the stink here and started to question how genuine this bloke is.
 
Woolly Mammoth said:
Thinking about this a bit today, I think you are likely right, the kid probably believed his own hype and just reacts at having the slightest thing not go his way....................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................or is it just too painful to entertain the possibility that a knucklehead teenage bogan from South Australia who can barely string a sentence together, and his reality TV star manager just played us like a goddamn fiddle :persevere:
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He didn’t play us like a fiddle. This would have been planned out by his Manager and Port.

All the deadshit bogan as you put it had to do was be a difficult little campaigner to deal with and cause issues. Even a dumbarse can play that role.
 

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Shermanator said:
View attachment 1526818

I was one of the people who protected this bloke, a tad sad the way he played us but then I see this was liked by jasonhorne7?…

Just F*ck off campaigner!!
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Hey Sherm, looks like the w***er wants to make friends at Port, he is a tool seriously imagine liking a trade that sends Butters to North. Just amazing behaviour


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Chewy316 said:
The question why he has only nominated Port is a pretty simple one. The Crows committed quite some time ago to Rankine - and he's costing them at least their first round pick and probably a steak knives type future 3rd. So even if JHF nominated the state and was happy to go to either club, given the Crows can't offer two first round picks as a starting point, it's safe to think that Port would have the better offer on the table for North to pick anyway.

It's stock standard for a player to nominate only one club even when they cite homesickness. Chris Judd nominated Carlton. Dangerfield nominated Geelong. Tom Boyd nominated the Bulldogs. I personally can't recall many (if any) homesick type trades in which the player returning to their home state has nominated the state only and told their existing club they'll go to any club in their nominated state.

The power lies far too much with the players. I am in favour of a model whereby a player is to nominate a specific state if citing homelessness, with the onus on the incumbent club then to get the best deal for them. But even that's a headache because the player needs to agree to contractual terms with the new club. So the only way to get around that is if the AFL were to adopt a US sports model where players are traded and their contracts are simply transferred from one team to another.
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So you think Horne went oh Adelaide can’t get a deal done, I only want to go to port, yeah I am calling bullshit.

And in this case the player holds zero power as he is contracted, if Port don’t pony up he just come back and both sport and Crows get a chance in 12 months, tic tic


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Rooboy 96 said:
So you think Horne went oh Adelaide can’t get a deal done, I only want to go to port, yeah I am calling bullshit.

And in this case the player holds zero power as he is contracted, if Port don’t pony up he just come back and both sport and Crows get a chance in 12 months, tic tic


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Correct! It becomes a bidding war which suits NMFC
 
Roosurgence said:
He didn’t play us like a fiddle. This would have been planned out by his Manager and Port.

All the deadshit bogan as you put it had to do was be a difficult little campaigner to deal with and cause issues. Even a dumbarse can play that role.
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I was honestly just thinking aloud and only half serious 👍, all hyperbole aside what I think happened is he wanted to go number 1 pick for his ego and to get the best price for his eventual move to Port he knew full well he would ask for, put on a dog & pony show about how he was loyal, will work hard, grateful for the opportunity North has given him blah blah blah and planned to keep up that act and show what he could do on the field along the way, then when it became even slightly hot in the kitchen he melted like a chocolate fireguard, and like any kid throwing a tantrum completely and utterly lost self awareness of how embarrassing and a poor show of character his behaviour was, blamed everyone around him, and more than likely the plan was to see out the 2 years then he could go to Port hassle free but now is throwing the toys out of the pram and asking to jump ship a year early.
 
ohh_v said:
If we were being super spiteful, and Port don't pony up.. Is there anything stopping us from not playing him at all (not even in the magoos) so that he receives no development at all and regresses even further as a footballer?

Any breach of contract considering he's pretty much already shat on it?
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Medi sub every week while not training with the main group. Force him to sit there and watch every game. Gets the odd run but not allowed to sing the song with the group.
 
Psicosis said:
Hard to not be a little flat reading reports of Bonner. It’s easy to fall into old nightmares of the various steak knives players we’ve brought in over the years… However, I do appreciate that North wouldn’t be feeding this to Ralph, it’s coming from Port & JHF management perspective. I’m also optimistic that this doesn’t align with what the club has said thus far.

What we do know is that:
  • The initial offer was Pick 8 & F1
  • The offer became Pick 8, F1 & F3
  • The offer now appears to be Pick 8, F1 & Bonner
  • North expect “significantly more” then Pick 8 & F1 (on what planet is Bonner significantly more?)
  • North approached Butters (on what planet are Bonner and Butters even close)
  • North have told Port that if players aren’t involved they need to involved a top 5 pick this year

I’m enthused by our handling of the Logue trade & we seem to be saying the right things publicly on this deal. Need to wade through Ralph’s bullsh**.
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If we’re going to be ladder lowly next year as well, who do they have coming out of contract that we can moonwalk to the PSD? Need to get onto that now
 
Ashley B said:
If he stays another yr we will have a second bidder in The Crows so you would think we would still be compensated pretty well.
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Dunno if the crows would want him. Haven’t battered an eyelid this year. “ generational talent”??…..my ass, “We’re committed to Rankine”,,,,,,, is he also a generational talent??? You’d think they’d at least canvass their players see if they face a home to Vic flight risk and see if something can be done.
 
Roosurgence said:
Have you also wondered why the same behaviour wasn’t exhibited when he was at South Adelaide?

His attitude suddenly switched when he came to North, because all the reports on his behaviour pre draft are in direct contradiction to the attitude he displayed.

It might be tin foil hat stuff, but a lot of things don’t add up and this move by Port, brings a lot of what happened into question.
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I’d suggest the standards and expectations at a sanfl club aren’t as high as afl and he has lacked the self discipline to meet those standards.
 
Chewy316 said:
The question why he has only nominated Port is a pretty simple one. The Crows committed quite some time ago to Rankine - and he's costing them at least their first round pick and probably a steak knives type future 3rd. So even if JHF nominated the state and was happy to go to either club, given the Crows can't offer two first round picks as a starting point, it's safe to think that Port would have the better offer on the table for North to pick anyway.

It's stock standard for a player to nominate only one club even when they cite homesickness. Chris Judd nominated Carlton. Dangerfield nominated Geelong. Tom Boyd nominated the Bulldogs. I personally can't recall many (if any) homesick type trades in which the player returning to their home state has nominated the state only and told their existing club they'll go to any club in their nominated state.

The power lies far too much with the players. I am in favour of a model whereby a player is to nominate a specific state if citing homelessness, with the onus on the incumbent club then to get the best deal for them. But even that's a headache because the player needs to agree to contractual terms with the new club. So the only way to get around that is if the AFL were to adopt a US sports model where players are traded and their contracts are simply transferred from one team to another.
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Thanks for your balanced response! Just occurred to me for the number of players who quote home sickness for wanting to move clubs, spare a thought for tassie players, those from NT, and more remote areas of WA and or QLD. Adlelaide to Melbourne is a short flight with regular commercial flights.
 
Chewy316 said:
And yet Melbourne are only negotiating with Freo because he's agreed to terms with them. West Coast haven’t even been close to being in the picture.

At this time of year everything is about optics and ensuring everyone comes out the other side looking good in the eyes of their fans.
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You’re moving the goal posts.

The player didn’t nominate a side he nominated a state.

Which you said didn’t happen.

Except it has.
 
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