A concerned pie

[Coin_Toss]

I was at training yesterday and the players split up into three groups - midfield, forward and back. There were no new faces in the midfield apart from Shannon Cox, and Licuria, Buckley and Burns were all prominent figures in the early drills. I know we had to draft for the future but it seems that there is no midfield depth this season and we could struggle without the old stagers. The injury group consisted of Heath Shaw, Leon Davis and Chris Bryan. I also noticed we have an abundance of defenders.

In other news;
- Egan has bulked up
- Cloke in very very good shape
- You can disguise Richards for a first-year player
- Maxwell has blossomed in his new role
- Goldsack is very quick

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

I was at training yesterday and the players split up into three groups - midfield, forward and back. There were no new faces in the midfield apart from Shannon Cox, and Licuria, Buckley and Burns were all prominent figures in the early drills. I know we had to draft for the future but it seems that there is no midfield depth this season and we could struggle without the old stagers. The injury group consisted of Heath Shaw, Leon Davis and Chris Bryan. I also noticed we have an abundance of defenders.

In other news;
- Egan has bulked up
- Cloke in very very good shape
- You can disguise Richards for a first-year player
- Maxwell has blossomed in his new role
- Goldsack is very quick

Well, it all depends - As long as Heath Shaw, Dane Swan, Dale Thomas, Scott Pendlebury and a few others are considered midfielders by the coaching staff, then we should be okay.

You have to remember that these guys are hopefully going to improve and take on more prominent roles in the midfield, which will mean that despite the fact that the members of the midfield group are the same, there should be a shift in the dynamic of who the "primary" midfielders are.

And in reality, it's not as though guys like O'Bree, Licuria and Burns are going to go and train as ruckmen - They really only have one position.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

And in reality, it's not as though guys like O'Bree, Licuria and Burns are going to go and train as ruckmen - They really only have one position.

Exactly. I'd hardly want them training with the forwards!!!.

Its not news that we need to reinvigorate our midfield with new blood. But the likes of O'Bree and Licuria are not just going to hand over their spots to some pimply nineteen year old. The new kids are going to have to earn their positions, not just have it handed to them on a platter. If they have to do their apprenticeships in the back pocket, forward pocket, off the bench or in the VFL, thats just the way things go.

 

[jerry springer]

- Egan has bulked up
- Cloke in very very good shape
- You can disguise Richards for a first-year player

Cloke will have a big year this year

Hopefully we can disguse richards for a injury-free ruckman

Im still worried about this year as well.i watched a replay of the final against the dogs recently and the way we tapered off in the 2nd half was appalling.the dogs were waltzing out of our midfield at will.we had no run at all.

The way we got beaten by richmond and essendon was troubling and carlton gave us a scare too towards the end of the season.we just seemed to run out of legs.

We really need Lonie,Davis and others to lift.sounds like a bit of a broken record every year though.

 

[Johnson#26]

Coin_Toss, I think you'll find that Goldsack, like the rest of the first year players (inc Medhurst) was absent yesterday.

Who is to say, though, that Bucks, Burnsy, Licca and O'Bree are over the hill? All were more than handy last season (despite what some may beg to tell you re Licca).

Swanny and Heater both impressed, as has been well documented.

I still think that the hope is for Didak and Davis to become senior midfielders through the rotations, whilst many are overlooking Ben Davies, who was on the cusp of senior selection for most of last season, and impressed on a wing. Medhurst, too, has been said to be in consideration for an onball role through the rotations, especially considering his lack of height and (from what I gleen from Fremantle dossiers) his excellent fitness (apparantly he set a few beep test records in the west).

Don't forget Egan, he could yet mould into a wingman. Stanley and Cook, too, could surprise, as could Danny Nicholls, form and injury notwithstanding.

Through all this we overlook Thomas and Pendelbury - if these guys aren't permanently in the midfield in two years time I'll...I'll...won't have to think about that one.

 

[King Woodie]

Totally agree about having too many defenders. Below is what I think is our depth chart. Note that I have put people in what I consider to be their natural positions, not the only position they can play (ie Thomas is a smll forward, although can play mid). Note, ordering is not relevant.

Ruck

Fraser
Richards
Bryan

KPF (tall forwards and medium forwards who play better as a tall)

Rocca
Cloke
Rusling
Dawes
Macaffer

Sml Fwd

Didak
Thomas
Cook
Egan
Davis
Medhurst
********

Mid

Buckley
Licuria
Burns
O'Bree
Holland
Pendlebury
Nichols
Davies
Wellingham
Goldsack

Sml Defender (best playing against running non-marking forwards)

Johnson
H Shaw
R Shaw
Lonie
O'Brien
Clarke
Swan
Lockyer
Stanley
Iles

KPD (tall backs and medium backs who play better against medium or tall
marking options)

Wakelin
Presti
Toovey
Cox
Brown
Reid
Mawell
Clement
Anthony

Just looking here, we seem to have a lot of defenders (tall and otherwise), and our of our more highly rated youngsters, only Pendles seems to be in the midfield mix. The next few years we desperately need to stock up on young quality mids and rucks, and we really need to work to turn the H Shaws, Clarkes, and Iles into mids.

 

[Coin_Toss]

Coin_Toss, I think you'll find that Goldsack, like the rest of the first year players (inc Medhurst) was absent yesterday.

It may have been Scott Reed, our 16-year-old NSW/ACT scholarship holder. He's very athletic and he looks comfortable around his future teammates.

I think Ben Davies won't make it. There was a passage of play where he ran over to meet the ball but he didn't read it and Buckley took it quite easily from behind. He has a tendency to make errors in judgement.
If I was playing on Buckley I wouldn't let him out of my sight.

Didak isn't a midfielder. I've been saying that for ages.

 

[jefffff34]

I think Ben Davies won't make it. There was a passage of play where he ran over to meet the ball but he didn't read it and Buckley took it quite easily from behind. He has a tendency to make errors in judgement.
If I was playing on Buckley I wouldn't let him out of my sight.

Coz Buckley has never made an error...

 

[Longy413]

It may have been Scott Reed, our 16-year-old NSW/ACT scholarship holder. He's very athletic and he looks comfortable around his future teammates.

Sorry to intrude lads...

It was the AFL draftee induction day yesterday (it may well even continue into today), so your draftees, like all others, would have been missing from training.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Sorry to intrude lads...

It was the AFL draftee induction day yesterday (it may well even continue into today), so your draftees, like all others, would have been missing from training.

Cheers Longy.

There's your new faces for you. No wonder the training group had the same old faces.

Coin Toss, you are an idiot. If you're going to offer some insight, at least get your facts right first.

 

[Coin_Toss]

Cheers Longy.

There's your new faces for you. No wonder the training group had the same old faces.

Coin Toss, you are an idiot. If you're going to offer some insight, at least get your facts right first.

Ben Reid - kpp (versatile)

Nathan Brown - kpp (back)

Brad Di*ck - small (forward)

Tyson Goldsack - medium (midfield)

Apart from Goldsack, I wouldn't say we have drafted any genuine midfield options. I made a comment about training yesterday and I stand by that, from where I was standing I didn't find this overly pleasing. That's what I was alluding too in my introduction.

In saying that I knew there were abscentees. Thanks for reminding me of that.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Apart from Goldsack, I wouldn't say we have drafted any genuine midfield options. .

At least he looks quick. So quick he was able to be in two places at once.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I wouldn't say we have drafted any genuine midfield options.

You dont need to go to training to realise we've drafted talls to replace the tall duds we delisted. And we went for "best available". We drafted lightly this year in mids, but last year we drafted heavily. Personally I would not have punted on Dawes and taken a mid instead, but time will tell on that.

If you look forward 2-3 years, we'll have a starting midfield rotation which includes Johnson, Didak, Swan, H Shaw, Egan, Thomas, and Pendlebury. Thats the foundation of a pretty good midfield, and its not including R Shaw, O'Bree, Holland, nor any number of young recruits who may make the grade, eg Iles, Nicholls or Goldsack.

I wouldnt get too over-analytical at this stage, just because Ben Davies made a skill error.

 

[King Woodie]

Can anyone tell me about Scott Reed? His footskills? His speed? Can you describe the passage of play that was thought to involve Goldsack (likely to have been Reed - similar height and hair). What was he used as at training? Very keen to get an idea of whether he is being groomed as a mid type player or a kpp type player.

 

[Johnson#26]

It may have been Scott Reed, our 16-year-old NSW/ACT scholarship holder. He's very athletic and he looks comfortable around his future teammates.

Yup, that was him. Can't believe he's my age, he's as tall as anything.

Didak isn't a midfielder. I've been saying that for ages.

He was drafted as one, and should go through on the rotations.

 

[Johnson#26]

Sorry to intrude lads...

It was the AFL draftee induction day yesterday (it may well even continue into today), so your draftees, like all others, would have been missing from training.

Ta, thanks mate.

 

[Coin_Toss]

At least he looks quick. So quick he was able to be in two places at once.

I mislead him to be someone else because they actually look alike. I don't see a problem with this.

Anyway these blokes have been at the club for how long?

Can anyone tell me about Scott Reed? His footskills? His speed? Can you describe the passage of play that was thought to involve Goldsack (likely to have been Reed - similar height and hair). What was he used as at training? Very keen to get an idea of whether he is being groomed as a mid type player or a kpp type player.

Considering he's so young I don't think it matters at the moment. We will develop his all-round skills and see how he goes in a range of positions. However he has stated he wants to be a midfielder - where he played all his junior football, so I think that gives you a fair idea. He has neat skills and he's very athletic.

 

[MarkT]

We didn’t draft any midfielders and we didn’t trade for any so how could we have any new faces there? We obviously need kids we have taken in the last few drafts to develop. As people here will know, I have grave concerns for our midfield. You need a quality midfield and frankly I don’t think we will have one of the better midfields so some time and even then it depends on future drafting and trading.

Cheers Longy.

There's your new faces for you. No wonder the training group had the same old faces.

Coin Toss, you are an idiot. If you're going to offer some insight, at least get your facts right first.

But we didn’t draft mids. See above but you know my views….

I mislead him to be someone else

Can you mislead anyone into being Big Cox?

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I mislead him to be someone else because they actually look alike. I don't see a problem with this.

Anyway these blokes have been at the club for how long? .

Then dont pass yourself off as an expert.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

But we didn’t draft mids. See above but you know my views….

Johnson, Didak, Swan, H Shaw, Egan, Thomas, and Pendlebury. Thats not a bad list of young midfielders for the next 5-6 years, with a few others in the rotation.

It lacks a Judd (although Thomas has sky-high potential), but most teams do. I'll take it on faith that we've done well in the draft. Dikk and Goldsack are both smalls (or at least not talls) , so two of our five draftees are potential midfielders, along with some rookies. Dawes is the big risk, but with our aging kpp's and the loss of Tarrant, we need talls just as much as we need mids.

 

[PLSC]

thomas, davis, didak and egan will all play roles in the middle but will not start there so dont kid yourself

swan and shaw can be true midfielders

your kpp look very good but stop trying to turn your pocket players into ball winners

 

[Dj Chriss]

Didak isn't a midfielder. I've been saying that for ages.

He isnt a midfielder because MM doesnt put him in the midfield. If i can recall correctly as a 17 year old playing in the SANFL, a prelimnary final at that, Didak got 6 goals and 30 possies playing as a rover

 

[Coin_Toss]

thomas, davis, didak and egan will all play roles in the middle but will not start there so dont kid yourself

swan and shaw can be true midfielders

your kpp look very good but stop trying to turn your pocket players into ball winners

I agree with you to some extent in particually - Didak and Davis. Didak is so damaging on the forward line if he moves into the midfield we will lose more than we gain from it. Davis is a match winner on his day and he's brillance is for reading the ball off the pack and then setting up others or kicking goals for himself. We can't afford to lose the ability of both players at the thought of moving them into the midfield.

I believe Egan can develop into a wingman/forward. He has the attributes to play on the wing and get 20 odd possessions and kick a goal or two.

Thomas could be a fine midfielder. He is not afraid to put his body over the ball, win the hard ball and ferret a handpass out. He oozes confidence and class. He has the ability to make things happen whether he is lining up at goal or backing his ability in a 50/50 contest. Above all his attitude will set him apart from the rest as to do the extra work.

 

[MarkT]

Johnson, Didak, Swan, H Shaw, Egan, Thomas, and Pendlebury. Thats not a bad list of young midfielders for the next 5-6 years, with a few others in the rotation.

Old ground but you are going back to the 2000 and 2001 drafts for “young” midfielders and in any case that’s the sort of list any club can rattle off. Even if I am wrong “not a bad list” is mediocrity and we need a “very, very good list” given pending retirements.

As I keep saying, we shouldn’t be aiming to be Collingwood competitive we should be aiming higher than we have achieved for much of the last 5 decades. I am not complaining about the guys we have drafted but I don’t we can say anything about the midfield beyond it might turn out adequate based on current personal. We need an injection of pace and class to get near the better midfields and we need it very quickly given the lead time for draftee development.

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

Old ground but you are going back to the 2000 and 2001 drafts for “young” midfielders and in any case that’s the sort of list any club can rattle off. Even if I am wrong “not a bad list” is mediocrity and we need a “very, very good list” given pending retirements.

As I keep saying, we shouldn’t be aiming to be Collingwood competitive we should be aiming higher than we have achieved for much of the last 5 decades. I am not complaining about the guys we have drafted but I don’t we can say anything about the midfield beyond it might turn out adequate based on current personal. We need an injection of pace and class to get near the better midfields and we need it very quickly given the lead time for draftee development.

Agree with all of this (which is nice for a change for us, Mark) but I think that you might be glossing over the real value of this draft for us.

If we can get a full spine for the future from a combination of Sean Rusling, Travis Cloke, John Anthony, Ben Reid, Nathan Brown and Chris Dawes, then we are going to be pretty set in terms of KPPs on our list. Having drafted for them this year, and having done so with high picks in a strong draft, we are actually at the point where we can afford for a few of them NOT to work out, and we could STILL end up with a solid, if not very good spine out of the above players.

Having all but taken care of our need to plan for the future in terms of talls, we are now free to take as many midfielders as we like without the concern that we are going to simply run out of sufficient numbers of KPPs. KPPs take longer to develop, so having taken them now means that the midfielders that we can pick up in the 2007 and 2008 drafts will become ready at roughly the same time.

Moreover, from what we have seen in the draft, Derek Hine seems to like to focus on one particular attribute or style of player in a particular draft. In 2004, he wanted rangy, tall athletes, and ended up with Chris Egan, Sean Rusling, Ben Davies and Harry O'Brien, who all fit that bill. In 2005, he wanted midfielders with class and evasive ability, and he got Dale Thomas, Scott Pendlebury, Danny Stanley (who's still a little light on the class), Danny Nicholls and Shannon Cox. In 2006, the order was for talls, and virtually anyone who was exceptionally quick for their size, and with the exception of Brent Macaffer, all were some of the fastest in their height group.

My point being, now Derek Hine can spend the next two drafts essentially just looking for midfielders, rather than going into them looking for whatever holes we have to fill.