A second concussion class action has been commenced.

[Back One Out]

What a complete load of tripe. Absolute thoughtlessness.
Players in lower leagues would have suffered similar injuries but this has no impact on AFL players ability to seek compensation from their EMPLOYER.

People choose to go to work everyday knowing there are risks but this does not diminish the responsibility of the employer to provide a safe work place and also be culpable for any damage Thats happened at work.

No, the hypocrite is the one who watches and enjoys the game yet denies the players the same rights as any other employee like yourself.
I am here supporting the change against people who care zip for the players , why are you lecturing people regarding your apathy?

See I am not like you, i dont walk away when there is something I dont like. I will stay and happily advocate for change. If that means the game has to change so be it. Walking away is for cowards. Getting involved takes conviction.

I agree with all of this.

Good post.

My thoughtless ramblings were just a knee jerk response to seeing Peter Jess's name in print.
I won't delete my previous post, even though I probably should. I'll leave it up, but I take it all back.

 

[Slartibartfast]

I agree with all of this.

Good post.

My thoughtless ramblings were just a knee jerk response to seeing Peter Jess's name in print.
I won't delete my previous post, even though I probably should. I'll leave it up, but I take it all back.

The potential changes will be a bitter pill for footy fans . It is a challenge to accept.

Glad you can see the reasoning behind it In the end, Kudos to you.

 

[Coasters7]

What a complete load of tripe. Absolute thoughtlessness.
Players in lower leagues would have suffered similar injuries but this has no impact on AFL players ability to seek compensation from their EMPLOYER.

People choose to go to work everyday knowing there are risks but this does not diminish the responsibility of the employer to provide a safe work place and also be culpable for any damage Thats happened at work.

No, the hypocrite is the one who watches and enjoys the game yet denies the players the same rights as any other employee like yourself.
I am here supporting the change against people who care zip for the players , why are you lecturing people regarding your apathy?

See I am not like you, i dont walk away when there is something I dont like. I will stay and happily advocate for change. If that means the game has to change so be it. Walking away is for cowards. Getting involved takes conviction.

There won’t be a sport that exists called AFL if you put this under the same umbrella as a typical workplace. It’s a 360° contact sport that has high jumping and big hits with an unpredictably bouncing ball. No other workplace has anything close to these sorts of variables, as well as trying to create an entertaining product for viewers.

Aside from removing contact entirely (still won’t stop collisions) I don’t know what else you can realistically do without shutting the entire fundamentals of the sport down. We all fell in love it the way it is because it’s unlike every other sport on the planet in that it is the only sport that isn’t “mechanical”, it’s just hell for leather from the first minute till the last, and that looks like it could be its downfall.

Players know the risks and yet they still walk out there because they love the sport and get a bucketload of money to play it. You can’t come back 10 years later and complain about your life choices when it was very clear from the outset what you were getting yourself into. These guys would have to be very naive to think theyd come away unscathed after growing up watching Derm lay blokes out

It’s sad the way it comes about and I hope the AFL are taking care of them but asking for a retrospective payout is ridiculous.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Wow….I’d laugh at my grandfather who thought wrestling was real. Looks like I’m the one to be laughed at….

The fights are scripted, the injuries are real

 

[Demonic Ascent]

There’s still a lot of disagreement in the medical profession about CTE, as per this New York Times article from just a few months back -
Scientists Say Concussions Can Cause a Brain Disease. These Doctors Disagree.

But law firms will keep driving this, as they stand to potentially make mega multi-millions out of this (these compensation law firms usually sweep up 40-50 % of any settlements paid in legal fees). It’s a great money earner for the suits.

That's akin to an article stating "these scientists disagree on man made climate change" - yeah there will be a few but the majority are in agreement and the evidence grows each year.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

I think that would be covered under work cover.

Pro sports aren't covered under WorkCover (not in Victoria anyway).

 

[Demonic Ascent]

There will need to be some serious lawyering done for this competition to survive long term in its current form.

Waivers signed etc.

Just wait for the next wave being the female AFL players with serious injuries suing the AFL. With pretty much no revenue stream to pay for it. The AfLW Comp would be bankrupt instantly.

Heard an AFL spokesman saying they are confident they have exercised their duty of care and can prove it by referencing all the rule changes protecting the head plus tribunal penalties on high contact etc.

But really the AFL has fallen short and they inow it. Its only a matter of time that a player gets a knee to the back of the head in a perfectly legal and AFL endorsed marking contest that their house of cards will fall. Its their worst case senario by far.

Tribunal penalties on high contact - unless the player is high profile and stands to miss out on playing in a GF or be disqualified from a Brownlow

 

[Demonic Ascent]

And it seems likely to me that the AFL (like the NFL) have been downplaying the effects of concussion deliberately for some time. For example their choice of (now discredited) academic to advise them and stalling on the previous long term study. Hence, lawsuit.

Who is the discredited academic?

 

[jim boy]

Who is the discredited academic?

Discredited is possibly a strong word, but not entirely unjustified. Paul McCrory was the person in question.

 

[The 747]

Who is the discredited academic?

New plagiarism claims against sport concussion guru Paul McCrory

Exclusive: Expert who has downplayed link between concussion and traumatic brain injury is accused of 10 more cases of plagiarism

www.theguardian.com

 

[Obeanie1]

Tribunal penalties on high contact - unless the player is high profile and stands to miss out on playing in a GF or be disqualified from a Brownlow

Exactly. The AFL are huge at beating chests inthe media about head contact but show their true colours in examples like that.

They do it far too often.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Exactly. The AFL are huge at beating chests inthe media about head contact but show their true colours in examples like that.

They do it far too often.

Play on.

 

[The 747]

There won’t be a sport that exists called AFL if you put this under the same umbrella as a typical workplace. It’s a 360° contact sport that has high jumping and big hits with an unpredictably bouncing ball. No other workplace has anything close to these sorts of variables, as well as trying to create an entertaining product for viewers.

Aside from removing contact entirely (still won’t stop collisions) I don’t know what else you can realistically do without shutting the entire fundamentals of the sport down. We all fell in love it the way it is because it’s unlike every other sport on the planet in that it is the only sport that isn’t “mechanical”, it’s just hell for leather from the first minute till the last, and that looks like it could be its downfall.

Players know the risks and yet they still walk out there because they love the sport and get a bucketload of money to play it. You can’t come back 10 years later and complain about your life choices when it was very clear from the outset what you were getting yourself into. These guys would have to be very naive to think theyd come away unscathed after growing up watching Derm lay blokes out

It’s sad the way it comes about and I hope the AFL are taking care of them but asking for a retrospective payout is ridiculous.

Don't disagree with a lot of this but that is not the crux of the issue.

The issue is what the AFL knew about the risks of concussion and what it did about them, and what was communicated to the players concerned.

This you or I do not know, hence the court case.

 

[Freddy Swift]

Well may as well close the competition down now. In fact all sport really as you can’t guarantee no body will get hurt.

I don’t doubt there are some genuine cases amongst these lawsuits but some I think are trying for an easy payday.

Somebody said it’s up to the AFL to provide a safe workplace for the players. As it’s a contact sport, how is that possible? They could wrap the players in cotton wool but even that wouldn’t prevent all injuries.

Incidentally, if player A is knocked out cold on field by player B, could A sue B?

 

[Coasters7]

Don't disagree with a lot of this but that is not the crux of the issue.

The issue is what the AFL knew about the risks of concussion and what it did about them, and what was communicated to the players concerned.

This you or I do not know, hence the court case.

But that goes back to the original point. How much would anyone, AFL, doctors or players, have medically known back when these guys were playing and what could you realistically do about it in a sport like this anyway.

The risks were clear as day if you watched any footage of AFL at all and surely it only takes a bit of common sense to think “if I get belted in the head multiple times over my career it could be bad for my long term health”, you only have to look at boxing to come to that conclusion.

As to what the AFL could have done, there’s really nothing aside from rule changes which slightly help change the mentality but realistically do nothing because there will still be freak accidents and collisions.

Aside from no contact or helmets there’s nothing they can do that’ll make a proper difference because players are going to play hard regardless and head knocks are unfortunately inevitable.

We’re all waiting for the day someone comes down from a speccy and dies after breaking their neck, that’ll truly be the end of our great sport. The AFL really need to get onto this and start signing waivers because there really is no other way around it without fundamentally changing the sport.

 

[RUNVS]

I think the AFL needs to introduce a 2 match ban on any player concussed. Not much different than the 11 day ban but it ensures through luck of fixturing a player can't only miss one match after being concussed.

 

[The 747]

But that goes back to the original point. How much would anyone, AFL, doctors or players, have medically known back when these guys were playing and what could you realistically do about it in a sport like this anyway.

The risks were clear as day if you watched any footage of AFL at all and surely it only takes a bit of common sense to think “if I get belted in the head multiple times over my career it could be bad for my long term health”, you only have to look at boxing to come to that conclusion.

As to what the AFL could have done, there’s really nothing aside from rule changes which slightly help change the mentality but realistically do nothing because there will still be freak accidents and collisions.

Aside from no contact or helmets there’s nothing they can do that’ll make a proper difference because players are going to play hard regardless and head knocks are unfortunately inevitable.

We’re all waiting for the day someone comes down from a speccy and dies after breaking their neck, that’ll truly be the end of our great sport. The AFL really need to get onto this and start signing waivers because there really is no other way around it without fundamentally changing the sport.

You are making huge assumptions on what the AFL knew in order to argue your point. Bzzzt.

What the AFL knew and when is the key issue here.

 

[Sentinel]

I think the AFL needs to introduce a 2 match ban on any player concussed. Not much different than the 11 day ban but it ensures through luck of fixturing a player can't only miss one match after being concussed.

It needs to be time based. What happens otherwise when the team has a bye in the middle? Remember this is not like a suspension where a player is being punished, the sole intention is for it to be a mandated recovery period, so 'luck' is really irrelevant. If the game is held on day 12 and they're deemed to be fully recovered under the protocols, there's no reason to sit them out.

There might be an argument to extending the minimum recovery period beyond the current 12 day timeframe but it would need to be based on current medical advice rather than an arbitrary period set by the AFL just because. Rugby (both league and union) also have an 11 day stand down period with return to play allowed on the 12th day, so you would presume there's a reason behind that.

 

[Coasters7]

You are making huge assumptions on what the AFL knew in order to argue your point. Bzzzt.

What the AFL knew and when is the key issue here.

The argument is though, what difference does it make who knew what? People like this are just looking for someone to blame for their unfortunate outcome when they made their choice of career with full knowledge of the risks and potential outcomes.

It’s very clear to me (with no medical knowledge on the subject) that you could go out there and do long term damage to pretty much every part of your body and I would’ve thought that’s pretty clear cut and self explanatory for anyone that’s seen 5 minutes of footy.

That’s the risk you take and that’s why you earn 10x more than the average person, it’s a high risk job, and the risks are very clear to people that haven’t even set foot on a footy field.

 

[The 747]

The argument is though, what difference does it make who knew what? People like this are just looking for someone to blame for their unfortunate outcome when they made their choice of career with full knowledge of the risks and potential outcomes.

It’s very clear to me (with no medical knowledge on the subject) that you could go out there and do long term damage to pretty much every part of your body and I would’ve thought that’s pretty clear cut and self explanatory for anyone that’s seen 5 minutes of footy.

That’s the risk you take and that’s why you earn 10x more than the average person, it’s a high risk job, and the risks are very clear to people that haven’t even set foot on a footy field.

Right so you have made your mind up already - even though you know zero about the case or the facts.

 

[Sentinel]

The argument is though, what difference does it make who knew what? People like this are just looking for someone to blame for their unfortunate outcome when they made their choice of career with full knowledge of the risks and potential outcomes.

What a contradictory paragraph, and it makes a huge difference.

A football player entering the league at 18 years old wihout any relevant qualifications on the subject of course does not have "full knowledge" of the risks and potential outcomes. The league, advised by medical experts, would be expected to have the most up to date knowledge that exists at that point in time, and put appropriate measures in place to mitigate those risks and protect said players.

A player's salary is also irrelevant when talking about health outcomes.

 

[Frederico_WA]

Good to see some common sense here by a few of you.

• Players decide to accept risk by signing contracts and playing the game. They protect themself by establishing and maintaining insurance.
• AFL level clubs understand player risk and protect themself through insurances.
• AFL is responsible to players and clubs and works to mitigate or remove risks. It also provides the national risk protection program for all other AFL leagues.

I personally think AFL players should not have to foot the bill for post career treatments and/or loss of income due to early retirement. And I understand that if they themselves did not protect their livelihood, then the civil route is the only way ... and it's why we're here now.

If these civil suits are successful, where does it end? The findings from them (if successful) would set precedence for so many other injuries in AFL and also infect other sports. Here's some real future possibilities:

• All past knee recon players launch a civil suit against AFL and the stadiums for not doing enough to maintain the surface or allowing an Ed Sheran concert to happen a few days before
• A pandemic of local clubs fold due to past-player civil suits bankrupting them

This is not the kind of future I want to see in AFL (or Australia). So what's the solution? I have no **** idea.

Looking forward, I expect every community and professional level player to sign waivers accepting personal responsibility from the risks associated with undertaking the sport. Similar to if I go to a rock climbing facility and want to climb ... i have to sign. In tandem with this, the AFL needs to beef up its guidelines for players on how to protect themself and make medically-led decisions in respect to managing concussion injuries.

This civil suit is going to go for yeeeeeeeeeeeeears. Hope it leads to some benefits for players past and present, while not compromising our game and the viability of the sport.

#notalawyer #notadoctor #justafred

 

[tandino]

Just a leading question to ask yourselves, at what level of income are you prepared to waive your OH+S rights for your employer?

 

[The 747]

Good to see some common sense here by a few of you.

• Players decide to accept risk by signing contracts and playing the game. They protect themself by establishing and maintaining insurance.
• AFL level clubs understand player risk and protect themself through insurances.
• AFL is responsible to players and clubs and works to mitigate or remove risks. It also provides the national risk protection program for all other AFL leagues.

I personally think AFL players should not have to foot the bill for post career treatments and/or loss of income due to early retirement. And I understand that if they themselves did not protect their livelihood, then the civil route is the only way ... and it's why we're here now.

If these civil suits are successful, where does it end? The findings from them (if successful) would set precedence for so many other injuries in AFL and also infect other sports. Here's some real future possibilities:

• All past knee recon players launch a civil suit against AFL and the stadiums for not doing enough to maintain the surface or allowing an Ed Sheran concert to happen a few days before
• A pandemic of local clubs fold due to past-player civil suits bankrupting them

This is not the kind of future I want to see in AFL (or Australia). So what's the solution? I have no **** idea.

Looking forward, I expect every community and professional level player to sign waivers accepting personal responsibility from the risks associated with undertaking the sport. Similar to if I go to a rock climbing facility and want to climb ... i have to sign. In tandem with this, the AFL needs to beef up its guidelines for players on how to protect themself and make medically-led decisions in respect to managing concussion injuries.

This civil suit is going to go for yeeeeeeeeeeeeears. Hope it leads to some benefits for players past and present, while not compromising our game and the viability of the sport.

#notalawyer #notadoctor #justafred

Good post. FWIW I caught some of Gill on AFL360 and he mentioned that the financial implications of the law suit didn't worry him. Some of this was PR but it does indicate that they have insurance to cover payouts.

What it potentially means for the future is yeah hard to know. It however does not look great.

 

[Frederico_WA]

Good post. FWIW I caught some of Gill on AFL360 and he mentioned that the financial implications of the law suit didn't worry him. Some of this was PR but it does indicate that they have insurance to cover payouts.

What it potentially means for the future is yeah hard to know. It however does not look great.

Yeah I watched that too. He sounded respectful of the issue while also keeping his stance of protecting AFL interests