Which Club has been more Successful in the AFL era Geelong or Hawthorn?

[iameviljez]

It’s the Hawks. They’ve won an extra flag.

This is true. That said, it's absolutely brutal that this simply hinges on sixty minutes of football on one day in September.

C'est la vie.

 

[iameviljez]

Hawthorn by one Stewart Dew quarter.

So it's Hawks by 5 minutes then.

Amazing how that's all it took

It was a lot more than that. Dew's game epitomised Hawthorn's day, but basically almost everything that could flip Hawthorn's way, did - and Clarkson, more than even Luke Hodge, won that premiership.

• Bit-players in Ellis, Dew and Rioli played out of their skins (don't forget Rioli was only 19)
• Enright carrying an injury hurt us badly
• Clarkson's three key plans - the Hawthorn cluster, Franklin taking Scarlett out of it, and snapping rushed behinds - all scored big hits, with Williams doing well at FF
• Geelong missed chance after chance to put the game away by half-time - not just kicks at goal, but butchering i50 after i50.

Basically the only things that didn't go Hawthorn's way was Mitchell having a quiet game, and Croad's injury.

Yes, Dew's cameo was excellent, but it was really Clarko's flag.

 

[Bald]

If we're talking since 1990, and with grand finals having a heavy influence on the list, here's a very vague ranking of each team that nobody asked for. I did not count 2010 as 2 grand finals with the draw. On reflection Richmond's spot doesn't sit right with me but I'm just not sure I can have them above Sydney.

1. Hawthorn - 6 grand finals, 5 victories, a 3-peat and only one grand final defeat.

2. Geelong - 8 grand finals, split them 4-4, no back to back premierships but the most consistent team since 2007.

3. Brisbane - 6 grand finals, 4 victories and 2 defeats, did consider having them at 2 due to the three-peat but they did spend a significant amount of time out of finals contention.

4. West Coast - 7 grand finals, 4 victories and 3 defeats, despite recently being one of the worst teams of all time, they've had a very good AFL run.

5. Collingwood - 7 grand finals, 3 victories and 4 defeats. The second most grand finals of any team for just the 3 wins. Generally find themselves around the mark.

6. Sydney - 8 grand finals, 2 victories and 6 defeats, almost always in finals but their grand final record is poor.

7. Richmond - 3 grand finals for 3 victories is very impressive, but outside of their dominant 4 year stretch have been relatively unimpressive.

8. GWS Giants - The only team I didn't consider number of grand finals for. They've fairly consistently competed outside of their first few years in the competition.

9. Adelaide - 3 grand finals, went back to back in the 90s, were embarrassed in 2017 but otherwise have been a solid team with their fair share of peaks.

10. Essendon - 4 grand finals, split them 2 and 2. Played in more grand finals but the 20 year final victory drought over the last 20 years needs to be considered.

11. North Melbourne - 3 grand finals, 2 victories, fantastic throughout the mid-late 90s but have been outside of a few exceptions have been pretty poor since.

12. Port Adelaide - 2 grand finals, 1 victory. Been pretty consistent finals players and have had quite a lot of top four finishes.

13. Western Bulldogs - 2 grand finals, 1 victory. Similar to Port Adelaide, a somewhat regular finals contender (though top 4 is not a thing).

14. Carlton - 3 grand finals, 1 victory. Did consider having them above Port/WB purely due to the number of grand finals but they've been fairly unimpressive since the late 90s.

15. Melbourne - 2 grand finals, 1 victory. Below Port and WB due to their horrible 2000s-2010s.

16. St Kilda - 3 grand finals, 0 victories. Came very close on two occasions, back to back grand finals in 2009-2010 is impressive and a victory in either would've bumped them up the list considerably.

17. Fremantle - 1 grand final, 0 victories. A very underwhelming AFL existence.

18. Gold Coast Suns - No finals.

 

[Duckimus Prime]

Coming from a club who's motto is "we exist to win premierships" I think the answer would be obvious.

strand_victor is a happy clapping Hinkley supporter. That post is fully in line with someone that supports the loser from Camperdown's continual existence as an AFL coach.

 

[Duckimus Prime]

7. Richmond - 3 grand finals for 3 victories is very impressive, but outside of their dominant 5 year stretch have been relatively unimpressive.

4 year stretch. They finished 7th in 2022 and were eliminated in an Elimination Final, if you're including that then really you'd stretch Richmond from 2013-2022. They made and lost Elimination Finals from 2013-2015. With 2016 being an outlier rubbish season.

 

[Bald]

4 year stretch. They finished 7th in 2022 and were eliminated in an Elimination Final, if you're including that then really you'd stretch Richmond from 2013-2022. They made and lost Elimination Finals from 2013-2015. With 2016 being an outlier rubbish season.

Fair. Their position stays the same whether it's 4 or 5 years. For some reason I thought they were top 4 in 2022. Edited.

 

[iameviljez]

Fair. Their position stays the same whether it's 4 or 5 years. For some reason I thought they were top 4 in 2022. Edited.

Doesn't matter anyway, 2017 through 2022 inclusive is six years.

 

[Bald]

Doesn't matter anyway, 2017 through 2022 inclusive is six years.

Yeah I know. I thought they had a lousy year in 2021 but finished top four in 2022 but I was wrong so the only years I’m really rating them on highly are the 4 years from 2017-2020.

Not super important regardless, there’s a fair drop between them and the teams below them so their position in my wonderful rankings don’t change.

 

[Duckimus Prime]

Yeah I know. I thought they had a lousy year in 2021 but finished top four in 2022 but I was wrong so the only years I’m really rating them on highly are the 4 years from 2017-2020.

They were 12th in 2021. For Richmond its their 3 flag years and the one where they blew it in 2018. Which was probably actually their strongest home and away season.

 

[iameviljez]

Which was probably actually their strongest home and away season.

Same was true of Hawthorn 2012 and Geelong 2008.

 

[PerthBoy86]

4. West Coast - 6 grand finals, 4 victories and 2 defeats, despite recently being one of the worst teams of all time, they've had a very good AFL run.

Nitpicking here but we've played in 7 grand finals. Our last 3 grand finals have also been decided by under a goal.

 

[Bald]

Nitpicking here but we've played in 7 grand finals. Our last 3 grand finals have also been decided by under a goal.

Fixed.

3 of the last 4 I assume? 2015 was 46 pts.

 

[PerthBoy86]

Fixed.

3 of the last 4 I assume? 2015 was 46 pts.

Oh yeah 3 of the last 4. I try to block 2015 from my memory lol.

We were red hot in 91, but I think the fact it was held at Waverley hurt us. At the G could've been a real chance. We win 05 we're 5 from 7. We lose 06 and 18 we're 2 from 7. 15 was winnable too imo, beat them in the qf, but we still sucked at the G. Legacies like that come down to points, seconds.

 

[iameviljez]

We were red hot in 91, but I think the fact it was held at Waverley hurt us. At the G could've been a real chance.

Given you lost to the same side 3 weeks earlier at Subiaco, and got well beaten on the day, I disagree with this.

 

[PerthBoy86]

Given you lost to the same side 3 weeks earlier at Subiaco, and got well beaten on the day, I disagree with this.

Oh did we? Guess I was 5 at the time. Think I had read about this but forgotten.

 

[iameviljez]

If we're talking since 1990, and with grand finals having a heavy influence on the list, here's a very vague ranking of each team that nobody asked for. I did not count 2010 as 2 grand finals with the draw. On reflection Richmond's spot doesn't sit right with me but I'm just not sure I can have them above Sydney.

1. Hawthorn - 6 grand finals, 5 victories, a 3-peat and only one grand final defeat.

(...)

18. Gold Coast Suns - No finals.

The other point that is reasonable to bring up is, IMO, the number of years that a team has spent being utter shit, vs ordinary, vs competitive.

For example, North Melbourne technically has a better record in the AFL era than the Dogs. But if you were, in full knowledge of what was about to happen, to go back to 1989 and recommend a team for a new fan to follow for the next 30 years, you'd pick the Dogs 10 times out of 10.

 

[peetoo]

This is true. That said, it's absolutely brutal that this simply hinges on sixty minutes of football on one day in September.

C'est la vie.

It’s the reason to play for most clubs

 

[parsons nose]

Geez, ya think? It was a Grand Final. Of course there pressure.

There was a heap of great goals and great moments in that game.
Batman’s running goal, Browns long bomb from the boundary, Cyril’s tackle, Hodge’s handball, Croad’s bump with a broken foot…

You forgot the greatest moment of the lot; The big cat’s miss from the top of the square, on the stroke of half time!

 

[RUNVS]

This thread really needs a poll.

 

[parsons nose]

All clubs compete with the ultimate goal of improving their win/loss ratios. Snagging the odd premiership along the way is merely incidental.

 

[JustEatIt]

I like golf so its Geelong

4 is better than 5

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

Oh yeah 3 of the last 4. I try to block 2015 from my memory lol.

We were red hot in 91, but I think the fact it was held at Waverley hurt us. At the G could've been a real chance. We win 05 we're 5 from 7. We lose 06 and 18 we're 2 from 7. 15 was winnable too imo, beat them in the qf, but we still sucked at the G. Legacies like that come down to points, seconds.

No chance in 2015, sure you got us in the QF but we made amends in the prelim at the same venue against arguably a better side than you guys that year (Freo). I was supremely confident we would get it done with alot of history on the line. 91 you must have forgotten we did you guys over at Subi in the QF, we were the best performing team the 2nd half of the year considering we turned from halfway through the year outside the 6 from memory. Think we won 13 of 14 or something like that. Only loss to you guys at Subi before the QF. MCG wouldn't have made a difference. We were well rested after the semi final and you guys had to travel 3 weeks in a row.

 

[Fluro Boots]

For example, North Melbourne technically has a better record in the AFL era than the Dogs. But if you were, in full knowledge of what was about to happen, to go back to 1989 and recommend a team for a new fan to follow for the next 30 years, you'd pick the Dogs 10 times out of 10.

I’m not so sure, they Carey years would’ve been fun as a North supporter and really they probably should’ve won at least one more. Also had a couple of good runs to prelims from memory under Brad Scott. They’ll come good again at some stage.

 

[Daka]

If there was a option in the poll for equal, I would have gone that.

 

[TP86]

Best argument for Geelong is in the AFL era they've significantly improved their stadium and revenue. A setup that on field and off has given them the platform for near-perpetual contending since 2004.

Hawthorn in the meantime have lived off Waverley closure compensation and 20 years of selling games to Tasmania. Only now are we building Dingley and the current stadium plan appears to be MCG tenant forever. Consider the stark contrast in on-field success between MCG tenants and Docklands tenants since the stadium opened. If and when time expires on Hawthorn in Tasmania they will need a secondary market ready from day one lest they end up on the Carlton/Ian Collins railroad to 4+ Docklands home games per season. If the Hawks were to end up a partial Docklands tenant then both in terms of fixturing and competitiveness it could be a slide right to the back of the queue. Something Geelong is completely insulated against.