Analysis Ranking the most to least successful clubs this century

[MC Bad Genius]

So how do you differentiate between levels of success for teams that have won the same number of flags?

 

[PerthBoy86]

Wow we've dropped below 50% H&A? I feared the point we would dip below that, guess it's already happened. 4 seasons with few wins will do that I guess.

 

[dean33]

So how do you differentiate between levels of success for teams that have won the same number of flags?

Exactly as the OP had it. Flags trump all.

 

[daniel_4tw]

So how do you differentiate between levels of success for teams that have won the same number of flags?

You don’t. It’s like the Brownlow. Equal first, or second or whatever.

 

[Trahanas22]

So how do you differentiate between levels of success for teams that have won the same number of flags?

Well, flags are a measure of total, real success. One flag is worth more than 1000 GF appearances, if you don’t win a single one of them. Collywobbles on steroids kind of thing.

What happens if two or more teams have won the same number of premierships, i.e. they have the same real, absolute success? You start looking at measures of relative, subjective achievements. If who finishes second, third etc on the success ladder is that important to you.

GF runners up, reaching prelims, making finals more often than not, not winning wooden spoons etc. Each fan can create his own equation/mental calculation. Based on his individual biases and the competitive strengths/weaknesses of the team he/she barracks for.

Which is totally fine. This is what the Big Footy is about. What is not fine is valuing indexes of relative success more than the one and only indicator of real success. Premierships.

So, The most successful team in the 21st century? Brisbane. Five cups, more than anyone else. Greater real, objective success than anyone else. There is no more discussion necessary.

Second, Third? Geelong or Hawthorn. Four flags each. Be my guest, start calculating subjective success between them. I would pick Geelong as the second most successful, since they don’t seem to fall away needing deep re-builds and are perennial “contenders”.

Fourth? Richmond. Three flags. No medal of overall (real+subjective) success for us, can’t make it on the podium not matter what. As it currently stands.

Fifth, sixth, seventh? Sydney, Collinwgood, West Coast. Two flags each. Very similar clubs in terms of contenting more often than not. Take your pick. Personally, I would choose Sydney and West Coast ahead of the Pies. Just because I strongly dislike Collingwood and I don’t need a formula to validate that. Who cares about 5th, 6th and 7th anyway?

And so on.

Alternatively, you can go down the trolling pathway. Just aggravating people for the pleasure of it. Living most of your life on Big Footy and spending an enormous amount of time and effort devising your so-called “non binary algorithms”. Which end up valuing finals and preliminarships more than flags.

And valuing Brownlow votes as a GOAT measure more than winning the medal itself. Same pattern. One master algorithm to rule them all. And take you to the land of bullshitness.

I guess the comedy of the absurd is still possible online...

 

[BigVic]

Poor Carlton. The gift that keeps giving

 

[Fadge]

Well, flags are a measure of total, real success. One flag is worth more than 1000 GF appearances, if you don’t win a single one of them. Collywobbles on steroids kind of thing.

What happens if two or more teams have won the same number of premierships, i.e. they have the same real, absolute success? You start looking at measures of relative, subjective achievements. If who finishes second, third etc on the success ladder is that important to you.

GF runners up, reaching prelims, making finals more often than not, not winning wooden spoons etc. Each fan can create his own equation/mental calculation. Based on his individual biases and the competitive strengths/weaknesses of the team he/she barracks for.

Which is totally fine. This is what the Big Footy is about. What is not fine is valuing indexes of relative success more than the one and only indicator of real success. Premierships.

So, The most successful team in the 21st century? Brisbane. Five cups, more than anyone else. Greater real, objective success than anyone else. There is no more discussion necessary.

Second, Third? Geelong or Hawthorn. Four flags each. Be my guest, start calculating subjective success between them. I would pick Geelong as the second most successful, since they don’t seem to fall away needing deep re-builds and are perennial “contenders”.

Fourth? Richmond. Three flags. No medal of overall (real+subjective) success for us, can’t make it on the podium not matter what. As it currently stands.

Fifth, sixth, seventh? Sydney, Collinwgood, West Coast. Two flags each. Very similar clubs in terms of contenting more often than not. Take your pick. Personally, I would choose Sydney and West Coast ahead of the Pies. Just because I strongly dislike Collingwood and I don’t need a formula to validate that. Who cares about 5th, 6th and 7th anyway?

And so on.

Alternatively, you can go down the trolling pathway. Just aggravating people for the pleasure of it. Living most of your life on Big Footy and spending an enormous amount of time and effort devising your so-called “non binary algorithms”. Which end up valuing finals and preliminarships more than flags.

And valuing Brownlow votes as a GOAT measure more than winning the medal itself. Same pattern. One master algorithm to rule them all. And take you to the land of bullshitness.

I guess the comedy of the absurd is still possible online...

Whatever helps you get through multiple decades of bottom 4 mediocrity at a time....

 

[CatsDan]

Out of all dynasties it would go:

1) Lions 01-03. Happy to concede there and admit they were a class above
2) Cats 07-25. Four flags in that time across two eras.
3) Tigers 17-20. Short and sharp but still a great side obviously.
4) Lions 23-25. Might seem early but putting in the Lions here. What a side.
5) Pies 10-11. Only two seasons but can't think of a more complete side when they were on.

 

[rapidfire7]

Apologies if I have missed it, but why have you started from 2001 and not 2000?

 

[RonnieRaven]

so eagles are top 5 for finals and flags
Is that the same eagles that are getting a welfare package because times are tough?
Pour sods

 

[Rotayjay]

Wooden spoons are bad, but I'd sure as hell rather have a flag, 'paid for' by one or more wooden spoons, than have no spoons and no flags.

 

[dean33]

Out of all dynasties it would go:

1) Lions 01-03. Happy to concede there and admit they were a class above
2) Cats 07-25. Four flags in that time across two eras.
3) Tigers 17-20. Short and sharp but still a great side obviously.
4) Lions 23-25. Might seem early but putting in the Lions here. What a side.
5) Pies 10-11. Only two seasons but can't think of a more complete side when they were on.

If you are going to put pies in with 1 flag you might as well add the Sydney, West coast, Port Adelaide, Bulldogs and Melbourne dynasties as well.

 

[PonsfordMagpie]

Out of all dynasties it would go:

1) Lions 01-03. Happy to concede there and admit they were a class above
2) Cats 07-25. Four flags in that time across two eras.
3) Tigers 17-20. Short and sharp but still a great side obviously.
4) Lions 23-25. Might seem early but putting in the Lions here. What a side.
5) Pies 10-11. Only two seasons but can't think of a more complete side when they were on.

Where are the Hawks (13-15) ?

 

[PhatBoy]

All for it to be undone.

No one enjoys losing grand finals or preliminary finals or getting knocked out in the finals. However I doubt any true football fan enjoys watching their team lose any match full stop.

If you get to see the ultimate enjoyment a few times so you have experienced that feeling, coupled with seeing your team win most of the time, and don’t have to suffer through season after season of being rubbish, week after week, don’t you think that’s a pretty good position to be in as a football fan? Saturday sucked for me, no argument there. It doesn’t retrospectively make the win over Hawthorn or the QF win over Brisbane or the 16 wins before it feel bad. I don’t travel back in time and un-enjoy them.

The Raiders and Roosters have had more or less the same amount of NRL success in my time following the sport as far as premierships go (the roosters have actually won more but it’s only 4-3) however the Roosters have been finalists virtually every year from 1996 onwards with a couple of misses. The Raiders battle year after year and have made one grand final in that time. Who do you think has enjoyed football generally more since 1989?

Absolutely you can be proud of success and no one will claim that flags aren’t the ultimate measure of success. That’s what everyone plays for.

But it’s hard to tell someone that winning a hell of a lot more than losing isn’t a decent way to enjoy footy week on week

 

[PhatBoy]

The fact Brisbane bottomed out and needed help from the AFL after the crazy Voss days should go against them.

And this board piles on Geelong with the rorting talk, that lot have been getting kick backs for decades.

AFL always need a strong team in QLD to compete with rugby.

Literally every team has had luck land in their lap for nothing in some capacity at some point. We landed Hawkins for nothing when he probably would have gone at the top of the draft and got Selwood instead with our first pick.

The Tigers got a priority pick for one bad season and it turned into Alex Rance.

The Hawks went shithouse and managed to get Luke Hodge and somehow Franklin slipped through to their pick.

Brisbane has landed some academy picks and father sons.

Melbourne went shithouse and a bunch of talent landed in their lap
And so it goes on

 

[Pistol Night]

Literally every team has had luck land in their lap for nothing in some capacity at some point. We landed Hawkins for nothing when he probably would have gone at the top of the draft and got Selwood instead with our first pick.

The Tigers got a priority pick for one bad season and it turned into Alex Rance.

The Hawks went shithouse and managed to get Luke Hodge and somehow Franklin slipped through to their pick.

Brisbane has landed some academy picks and father sons.

Melbourne went shithouse and a bunch of talent landed in their lap
And so it goes on

Now do Carlton..

 

[MC Bad Genius]

Apologies if I have missed it, but why have you started from 2001 and not 2000?

Because it's technically part of last century (we started with 1 AD).

 

[beerbandit]

Silly metric, a spoon doesn't take away a flag. Ask a saints, Carlton or bombers fan how many spoons they'd endure for 1 flag and see what they say. Us finishing 18th last season doesn't take away one of our flags.
The first measurement by the OP was correct, just like the Olympic medal tally that ranks gold first above everything else. You dont see a country with 10 bronze medals ranked above a country with 1 gold.
Richmond > Collingwood this century and since 1960.
Pies do have us covered just after world war 1 though.

Rent free

 

[M Malice]

Flag- 75 points.
Runners up- 25 points.
Top 4- 20 points.
5th-8th- 10 points.

 

[Bostonian]

I've still seen more flag wins than any Collingwood supporter my age.

 

[PhatBoy]

Silly metric, a spoon doesn't take away a flag. Ask a saints, Carlton or bombers fan how many spoons they'd endure for 1 flag and see what they say. Us finishing 18th last season doesn't take away one of our flags.
The first measurement by the OP was correct, just like the Olympic medal tally that ranks gold first above everything else. You dont see a country with 10 bronze medals ranked above a country with 1 gold.
Richmond > Collingwood this century and since 1960.
Pies do have us covered just after world war 1 though.

It doesn’t take away a flag, no. It won’t ever undo the feeling you get when you claim that win, or undo that achievement.

But ask a film buff if Tango and Cash takes away a little from the legacy of Rocky, or a music critic if Songs of Innocence undoes a little bit from The Joshua Tree and chances are they will say it does. It will re-contextualise other achievements.

 

[CatsDan]

Where are the Hawks (13-15) ?

Beneficiaries of a diluted talent pool due to the expansion teams and compromised drafts

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

The Hawks went shithouse and managed to get Luke Hodge and somehow Franklin slipped through to their pick.

Cool story, but Hawks traded for Luke Hodge.

 

[Freshwater]

Because it's technically part of last century (we started with 1 AD).

It’s not ‘technically’ in the 20th century, but the year 2000 is the last year of the 20th century.
Australia was federated deliberately on January 1st 1901, because that was the first day of the 20th century.
January 1st 2001 is the first day of the 21st century.

 

[Pistol Night]

I've still seen more flag wins than any Collingwood supporter my age.

Congrats on the grey pubes