A structural shuffle

[MarkT2]

At this point we need to see whether Wood is going to be a decent ruckman. The only way to know is to play him. If he doesn't cut it then we need a short term solution.

I'd use Cloke in the ruck a bit. Dawes might be an option as well but Cloke has played ruck in the 2s early in his career at Collingwood and he'd be good around the ground. Granted it takes away from CHF but it might be easier to have Tarrant/Brown fill the 3rd tall forward position and move into CHF or FF with Dawes up at CHF when Cloke rucks. Alternatively Dawes moves to CHF while Jolly rests at FF.

 

[Ricky90]

Send Reidy back up forward for stints. Those early problems were just nerves but he's a superstar now, would probably kick the ton these year.

Ton and a half even! Would be a lazy year for the bloke.

 

[otfc42]

Can't agree. The reason that Clokey has ben able to do what he does is the leads from Dawes and the two and three players he takes with him. Dawes is a forward and is quicker than he looks with his running goal last weekend being a proime example.

Brown and Jolly had a wonderful partnership in our premiership year, but if my memory serves me correct he played as a tall defender in the last half dozen games....

 

[speedytiger]

Leigh Brown wasn't Leigh Brown last year. He was no good down back, forward and in the ruck. Didn't even get in as many scuffles and he did in '10. So maybe what worked so well in '10 isn't suitable now. Maybe time for 2 genuine rucks?

 

[THATSGOLD]

Put Dawes in the ruck and you will kill his career life expectancy. He seems too fragile. If you want a pinch hitter, just get Goldsack in there, he isn't the tallest but he runs well and put on a bit of size. Sack has never really found a proper role, if he could hold something like this down he would be one of the most valuable members of our team.

 

[THATSGOLD]

Wasn't sure if this deserved its own thread but Goldsack played wing and forward on the weekend and looked good. I'm tipping he'll get an opportunity to use his pace, hieght and long kicking off the wing early and swing forward to be that tall third lead up option. Had 6 and 9 touches against Dogs and GWS and looked strong.

Personally, I think its a great move for him to expand his arsenal and to see what else he can bring to the table. Could be a revolutionary move for the Pies and himself.

He has all the attributes.

It seems we think alike. He isn't a kid anymore in fact he looked like one of the biggest blokes out there in the nab cup. He needs a decent role in 2012.

 

[Breakthelines]

Play Dawes, Cloke & Reid Forward.
Tarrant & Brown Back.
Wood Back Up Ruck.

Then have a crumbing type as the sub and just sub off the big man who is struggling the most.

B: Maxwell Tarrant O'Brian
HB: Shaw Brown Clarke
C: Thomas Pendles Wellingham
HF: SideBottom Cloke Reid
F: Didak Dawes Fasolo
Foll: Jolly Swan Ball

Bench: Wood, Beams, Johnson
Sub: Yagmoor
Emer: Goldsack, Toovey, Keefe

 

[PremierPie13]

I think Reid should be used as the loose man just as Scarlett is used alongside Lonergan and Taylor. Either Reid or Tarrant could then be thrown in the forward line sometimes with Maxwell assuming his regular position as loose man. This is versatile and I believe we'd get the best out of Reid's talents.

 

[pauly_moss]

I would like to see Keefe come in as the 2nd ruck. Tall enough and handy around the ground

 

[Knightmare]

I like it that Q is thinking beyond the obvious.

As a no.2 ruckman while I like some element of flexibility I still tend to favour taller options over the 193cm Dawes (who is much the same height as L.Brown). So my preference is for a Ceglar or similar (11cm taller) to eventually fill that no.2 ruck role.

As a forward I tend to like Dawes with his attack at the ball - even though marking ability not as good as some of the other big forwards he still crashes packs and does everything he needs to and in combination with Cloke is very effective because at times he also can force a double team. As a ruckman I'd be very concerned about Dawes' knees and long term durability, his body will get smashed up in the ruck and I think it would really hurt his long term future.

Reid while I also believe he could play forward stylistically he isn't as good of a fit as Dawes is and also with his ability to read the ball down back, beat his man 1v1, consistantly mark off opposition kicks and create that rebound with his long kicking from the back half his value is so great down back that a move forward would hurt our back half significantly more than it would benefit our front half, even if a N.Brown comes into the team. Looking at the home and away season - not including finals I rated Reid as our most valueable player in 2011 (more so than Cloke/Pendles/Swan/Thomas) such was his influence - most will no doubt disagree with this perspective but this is how highly I value his game in the back half and how highly I value his contribution to winning.

Tarrant I also consider to be in the same boat as Reid. As a defender is just so productive and important to winning, as a forward now he is only passable and hardly productive as he once was.

 

[cleomenes]

Those recommending Nathan Brown for a forward job have not looked closely at his play. He is a poor decision maker. On the backline, this rarely matters, as he plays a negating role, and the creativity comes from those around him. On the occasions that he is given the ball to distribute, he tends to hoe the boot into it without a target. This is no good for a forward, so he cannot be played there.
Reid is the exact opposite and could be played forward. The problem is then to find a player to take his place with all his ability to win the ball and distribute it. Keefe seems to be under consideration for this role, but is not there yet.

Dawes is unfairly denigrated in his forward role, mostly because he does not mark like Cloke. This quality of marking is exceedingly rare, and few teams have one such forward, let alone two. Dawes is a different style of player to Cloke, and that is to be celebrated, otherwise there would be continual discussion over whether they could play together. Asking him to ruck at his height is a bit much in today's football.

I truly believe that Collingwood were lucky to get away with Leigh Brown as second ruck. In 2010, Brown himself played a year out of the box, and Jolly went injury free. Mostly teams need two rucks. I expect we will too. At the start of the year, this will have to be Jolly and Wood. Form, injuries and developing tactics will decide through the year how this has to be varied.
With only the TV to guide me, I would say that concentration is the bugbear for Wood, and if he can improve this, we may see better from him.

 

[Soul_Pie]

Dawes will come good as a forward so long as he remains injury free and starts playing to his strengths a lot more, he has a similar build to Jonathon Brown and needs to start leaping at the ball, sticking his arse out and taking some big marks on that gorilla chest of his. His hand was stuffed last year and he was just tapping it down in the latter part of the year like a volleyall player, if he's over these injuries I think we'll see a lot more confidence similar to how he was playing in the early part of 2011. He still has a heap to offer as a permanent forward in my view and will be especially crucial now that Krak and Caff have gone down.

In terms of our second ruck, it's a really tough one. I don't know if we have an answer at this stage, I think it will probably take a little bit of fiddling and experminenting during the season proper before we get a real fit.

 

[The Average Tourist]

Wood first ruck and Jolly spending 20% more time up forward this year. Wood should take the centre bounces as his height and jumping ability are a factor while we save Jolly's strength and positioning for the stoppages around the ground.

On another note, why can't Tarrant, Reid and Brown all play back this year in the same side? I see it everywhere and can't understand it. Geelong had Scarlett, Lonergan and Taylor in the backline last year and thought it was a deciding factor in that GF. If we had Brown playing as well, we could have shuffled the match ups around til we found a winner, like the Cats did with Lonergan on Cloke.

So basically, play both ruckman, Jolly more time up forward and all three key backs in the one side and I'm a happy man.

If we are going to win the big one Wood has to be our number one ruck man and jolly is the third tall
This is where we change the rules
We cannot win the big one playing last years or the year before's game plan
But Dawes plays forward
If MM was still coaching O'halpin would play the Leroy position

 

[Lockyer24]

I see our forward line operating as follows:

DAWES AND CLOKE

RESTING RUCK AT TIMES (WOOD OR JOLLY)

then

2 Permanent Forwards of: Fasolo/Blair/Sinclair/Keefe

2 Part time Forward Flankers: Pendles/Daisy/Swanny/Beams/Sidey

You can mix and match 5 of those

 

[THATSGOLD]

If we are going to win the big one Wood has to be our number one ruck man and jolly is the third tall
This is where we change the rules
We cannot win the big one playing last years or the year before's game plan
But Dawes plays forward
If MM was still coaching O'halpin would play the Leroy position

i agree with that. I guess Sentana would have commanded a bit of money of which we didn't have though. Culled Davis, who else would you have culled to make way for him?

 

[Bay Pie]

I think Bucks will start out with Wood and Jolly.

I'd be totally for Wood starting and playing mainly in the ruck with Jolly as 3rd tall forward/back up ruck. It will help keep him fresh throughout the year. As the year rolls on, reverse the roles as need be, to see which one suits us best, settling on what's best, 6 weeks or so from the finals.

I'd play Taz, Reid & Nate all in the backline. Taz can play on smalls and/or the 3rd tall. Nate takes FB, Reid CHB. It gives us much flexibility. Most teams will play 2 key forwards and a resting ruck, so one should play mostly on him. Add Tooves, Harry & Heater with Maxy as loose man in defence. We options to swing someone forward if we like.

We've had a gun defence for a few years now. Don't go messing with it too much.

 

[THATSGOLD]

I think Bucks will start out with Wood and Jolly.

I'd be totally for Wood starting and playing mainly in the ruck with Jolly as 3rd tall forward/back up ruck. It will help keep him fresh throughout the year. As the year rolls on, reverse the roles as need be, to see which one suits us best, settling on what's best, 6 weeks or so from the finals.

I'd play Taz, Reid & Nate all in the backline. Taz can play on smalls and/or the 3rd tall. Nate takes FB, Reid CHB. It gives us much flexibility. Most teams will play 2 key forwards and a resting ruck, so one should play mostly on him. Add Tooves, Harry & Heater with Maxy as loose man in defence. We options to swing someone forward if we like.

We've had a gun defence for a few years now. Don't go messing with it too much.

I wouldnt get to hung up on Nathan Brown, half his battle will be getting on the park. He will play about 12 games for us if he lucky.

 

[Ed D]

I wouldnt get to hung up on Nathan Brown, half his battle will be getting on the park. He will play about 12 games for us if he lucky.

I think that'd only happen if he picked up a new injury and I don't think anyone can predict things like that. Then again if he doesn't have the form to play then he'll find himself in the VFL.

 

[stui magpie]

Dawes in the ruck, no. Don't like it.

Reid to go up forward, yes. In bursts as required. He's a natural forward, always has been despite the sideshow gags about his goal kicking a few years ago. He's also an AA CHB and provides a lot of rebound. Leave him at CHB but send forward when a change up is needed.

Wood can't play the Leroy role, but we don't actually need another Leroy. We need a second ruck who is able to play forward. That's Jolly. Wood plays first ruck. That should be trialed for the first few rounds, til we see how Witts, Ceglar, Keefe are going. The option is put Jolly back to first and bring in one of the others.