Abortion

[Bostonian]

Because having a baby is not a small undertaking. It tips your world upside emotionally, financially, physically...and that's when it's a wanted pregnancy and baby.

I think it's a very brave decision to terminate an unwanted pregnancy rather than subject the child to a life of heartache, financial distress, or worse.

Why not have the kid and give it to one of the thousands of people who desperately want a child but can't have one?

 

[tandino]

Why not have the kid and give it to one of the thousands of people who desperately want a child but can't have one?

Shooting something larger than a house brick out your business isn't an easy or pleasant thing to do. I would imagine.

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

Why not have the kid and give it to one of the thousands of people who desperately want a child but can't have one?

It's not that simple. Pregnancy is a huge physical toll, as is childbirth. Plus the adoption system in Australia doesn't work that simply. I looked into it to adopt a child and it is nowhere near like the American system of private agencies and handing over cash. It's an arduous and expensive process that rarely comes together. The foster system isn't fantastic and subjecting a child to that is also taking a bit of a punt on what kind of people they'll end up with.

 

[MWPP]

I’m pro-choice on a general level even if I’m personally pro-life in that I would never personally undergo or perform an abortion . There are some surprisingly big differences between the states

I disagree with Victoria allowing accessible abortions upto 24 weeks (a medical consensus/extenuating circumstances are only required beyond 24 weeks) because in WA (and in many other parts of the world ), babies born from 23 weeks are considered viable and are fully resuscitated.

I also disagree with Queensland’s (and to a lesser extent , NSW’s ) abortion laws because it’s still a “criminal offence*” (*with exemptions in some circumstances) in those states and patients and/or medical staff have to work around significant restrictions regardless of the gestation . I like Tas’s /NT’s approaches (legal/accessible upto 16/14 weeks , but 2 doctors must approve it beyond that ).

I strongly agree with the implementation of safe zones
(It would be a tough and heartbreaking decision to make )

 

[Bostonian]

It's not that simple. Pregnancy is a huge physical toll, as is childbirth. Plus the adoption system in Australia doesn't work that simply. I looked into it to adopt a child and it is nowhere near like the American system of private agencies and handing over cash. It's an arduous and expensive process that rarely comes together. The foster system isn't fantastic and subjecting a child to that is also taking a bit of a punt on what kind of people they'll end up with.

But as we've seen in this thread abortion can take a huge lasting mental toll.

It's interesting that all these pro-abortion lobbyists and feminists who are happy to go protest for the right to abort make zero noise about the ineffectiveness of our adoption system and lobbying for change to said system.

For groups of people who are so loud about women having choice they are completely silent on something that could benefit many women who might want to avoid abortion if they knew a decent and effective adoption process was available.

 

[Taylor]

Sacrificing the defenceless for your convenience is a slippery slope. It's such a horrible situation because nobody would want to deny a rape victim their freedom from the trauma, and I would expect most treatment for sexual abuse in hospital includes knocking the potential pregnancy on the head early, although I wouldn't want to be using an extreme example like that as the coattails casual early and midterm lifestyle choice abortions ride in on.

I believe in empowering choices as much as possible, I can't expect someone ignorant to their situation to be responsible for it. That "ignorance is no excuse" line people use regarding law is rubbish in at least this circumstance.

Teach children all about safe sex, empower them to understand their bodies and then when they choose not to use condoms (because sex is so much better without them) then they know what possible outcome they are also choosing.

 

[HairyO]

I had an abortion when I was 18. I was seeing a guy at the time who told me he would have no part in being around and would not support me. I was scared and alone and thought it was my only option at the time.

I’m now 30 without children and terrified of never having another chance. What if that was it for me? I guess time will tell. I still think about it all the time, how different my life would have been. I’d certainly never do it again.

Hopefully the 30 year old you is better able to handle a new life than 18 year old you. Also you hope the father isnt a complete dick like the guy 12 years ago.

You still have many years to find the right person or do it by yourself, and even then, when your body fails, medicine can take over and give you even more time.

Why not have the kid and give it to one of the thousands of people who desperately want a child but can't have one?

Because adoption laws in this country are terrible and the child will most likely end up in foster care which is a complete turkey shoot. Or you will end up keeping the child and resenting it. Or you will keep the child and love it freely.

But there is simply no way of knowing for sure.

I dont like the idea of abortion happening, given what it is essentially meaning, however I absolutely think it should be legal and available.

 

[PhatBoy]

I need to preface this by saying that I AM reasonably religious. But having given the whole topic a lot of thought over a long period - especially after basically accidentally knocking up my now-wife basically on the first night I met her and being an absolute wreck of a human at the time, I've managed to reach my current position regardless of what I believe about the bible or God.

Firstly I don't really like the idea that it is the woman's decision. Of course the physical strain of pregnancy is something that ONLY she can deal with. But any man worth a squirt of piss should be putting in nearly as much effort himself. When my boys were born, nobody had any more right than I did to decide how to raise them, how to treat them, how to look after them. It's a joint effort. So when they're 'fermenting' for want of a better word, I tend to think the same applies.

Unfortunately as we all know, we don't live in a world in which both parents can or will take responsibility. So on the flip side I can see why pregnant women feel that the responsibility is, and should be, theirs alone.

I do understand why situations like abortion due to birth defects, rape, potential for stillbirth are taken into consideration. Really I do. But I can't get beyond the fact that life is simply the greatest thing in the world. It's tough as shit, even for the able bodied and minded, but it's still awesome. My brother in law has a son from a previous marriage with Down's syndrom. The thought that he could have been aborted because someone decides that they can 'do without the extra hassle' so to speak, really disappoints me.

The most remarkable person I read about when I was young was Helen Keller, who went deaf and blind before she could talk basically and had just started walking. She turned into one of the most amazing people on the planet. Hypothetically, if she had those sorts of defects before she was born, nowadays she'd have probably not been born as a test would have discovered it, and the parents would have been advised against going ahead with the pregnancy. I hate the idea that maybe in the course of human history, the person who could cure cancer may not have been given a chance to live. Sounds stupid I know. It's just how I feel.

I do believe that when the life of the mother is at stake, there's a case to be made. But even in saying that, I know that if I ever had to choose between sparing my own life, or that of my children, I choose them every time.

It's a tough subject and I don't judge people for their views on it.

 

[The Speaker]

People pointing out how complex our adoption process is are quite right to point it out, but the solution to that is to make it less complex so that more women are willing to put their newborns up for adoption, instead of having them aborted. There is no shortage of families with the capacity and desire to adopt children.

 

[Scotland]

People pointing out how complex our adoption process is are quite right to point it out, but the solution to that is to make it less complex so that more women are willing to put their newborns up for adoption, instead of having them aborted. There is no shortage of families with the capacity and desire to adopt children.

That logic is flawed.

The adoption process needs to be more efficient to ensure that the needs of the children put up for adoption are prioritised and we don't end up with the situation we have now where there are children needing homes, couples willing to adopt and a disconnect in the middle keeping those two groups apart.

It's not like adopting a greyhound which will just chill out on your couch for 5-10 years then fade off to sleep one day. It's a child, and the process should be rigorous. But in no way should we be making adoption easier to encourage people to give away children rather than abort them. People who don't want children need all the encouragement possible not to have them in the first place.

And any religious body that discourages contraception should have no seat at the table either.

 

[The Speaker]

That logic is flawed.

The adoption process needs to be more efficient to ensure that the needs of the children put up for adoption are prioritised and we don't end up with the situation we have now where there are children needing homes, couples willing to adopt and a disconnect in the middle keeping those two groups apart.

It's not like adopting a greyhound which will just chill out on your couch for 5-10 years then fade off to sleep one day. It's a child, and the process should be rigorous. But in no way should we be making adoption easier to encourage people to give away children rather than abort them. People who don't want children need all the encouragement possible not to have them in the first place.

Something can be rigorous without making it needlessly complex.

And any religious body that discourages contraception should have no seat at the table either.

While I disagree with the Catholic Church's position on contraception as a whole, natural planning is still very effective.

 

[Bomberboyokay]

Why not have the kid and give it to one of the thousands of people who desperately want a child but can't have one?

You going to pay for 9 months of medical treatment and time off work at the end? Gee I suspect you're full of shit when you say "pro-abortion".

 

[Bomberboyokay]

If there's adoption problems in Australia I suspect it's partly because people want week old babies not 5-year-olds that are already ****ed in the head.

 

[Admiral Byng]

We have a secular side of the family and a ultra-conservative side of the family. One of the latter was pregnant with a baby that had Edwards Syndrome. She had the baby and it died at age 6 weeks. It was dreadful, traumatic and so forth for the whole family. Her marriage collapsed not too long after. She was an emotional wreck for a long time. I can't help think an abortion would have been merciful.

 

[Stratton_Gun]

I find the only people who are against it are the religious nut types and tbh if they think an imaginary man exists up in the sky then their opinion doesn't hold much weight with me anyway.
No reason to let 1 mistake ruin your whole life. In saying that I think, the man deserves a say. Either it's his choice too or he can opt out of any responsibility if she wants to keep it

 

[Catfish Alley]

How about if he wants to keep it but she doesn't? Nah, it's her body and choice to make.

 

[PhatBoy]

I find the only people who are against it are the religious nut types and tbh if they think an imaginary man exists up in the sky then their opinion doesn't hold much weight with me anyway.
No reason to let 1 mistake ruin your whole life. In saying that I think, the man deserves a say. Either it's his choice too or he can opt out of any responsibility if she wants to keep it

You don't have to let it be a mistake. That's the thing that most people who are anti-abortion hold close to their argument.

I would believe what I believe irrespective of my thoughts on god. Maybe it's because my wife has miscarried, I dunno.

 

[Richard Pryor]

How about if he wants to keep it but she doesn't? Nah, it's her body and choice to make.

While I think I ultimately agree with this, I'd be lying if I said I didn't find the thought of a woman having an abortion out of spite to get back at a guy who wants the baby deeply disturbing, (while acknowledging it's a pretty contrived scenario).

It's interesting to me, like, intellectually I'm pro-choice, but there's still some sort of inexplicable instinctual part of me that finds the very concept of abortion abhorrent. Probably the sense of finality, like the quote from Unforgiven "It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. You take away all he's got and all he's ever gonna have.".

Ultimately it's not enough for me to want to institute my feelings as law on others, but I find the flippancy that some pro-choice voices treat the act itself with (eg. Lena Dunham) disheartening enough to sympathise more with the other side more than I perhaps otherwise would.

 

[PhatBoy]

While I think I ultimately agree with this, I'd be lying if I said I didn't find the thought of a woman having an abortion out of spite to get back at a guy who wants the baby deeply disturbing, (while acknowledging it's a pretty contrived scenario).

It's interesting to me, like, intellectually I'm pro-choice, but there's still some sort of inexplicable instinctual part of me that finds the very concept of abortion abhorrent. Probably the sense of finality, like the quote from Unforgiven "It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. You take away all he's got and all he's ever gonna have.".

Ultimately it's not enough for me to want to institute my feelings as law on others, but I find the flippancy that some pro-choice voices treat the act itself with (eg. Lena Dunham) disheartening enough to sympathise more with the other side more than I perhaps otherwise would.

That's a pretty good post.

I remember there was a girl I was periodically seeing at the end of uni, who came back to town for her graduation. Truth be told I didn't like her much, I just liked sleeping with her. When she got to town she messaged me to meet her at the pub - I got there, and the first thing she said was 'yeah so I was pregnant until a few weeks ago but I'm ready for some fun.'

I was flabbergasted that someone could be so flippant about it.

 

[Sterge]

When we had our daughter we were told at 18 weeks that she had hyperplastic left heart syndrome (ie her heart had an underdeveloped left side) and because it was considered a serious medical defect they would abort up to 26 weeks, we ended up having the baby and she passed after 2 days. Not sure if either of us could go through that again.
The 26 weeks thing is interesting though because a friend recently had a baby at 28 weeks and whilst small she is still fighting in nicu and will hopefully grow up happy and healthy.

 

[Run n Spread]

Nobody should be forced into parenthood against their will. Provided there is a medically acceptable time frame abortions should be free and easily accessible.

Having nearly been through "an accident" myself impending parenthood really makes you consider life and how you adjust. If a woman absolutely doesn't want a child and for whatever reason can't go through it society has absolutely no right but to accept their choice (When was the last time society was worth listening to anyway?)

From a male POV it is tricky. By the same token you can't force women into abortion but you really need to be careful. And believe me I've known women who swore black and blue they never wanted childeren only to suddenly reconsider and wind up preggers.

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

When we had our daughter we were told at 18 weeks that she had hyperplastic left heart syndrome (ie her heart had an underdeveloped left side) and because it was considered a serious medical defect they would abort up to 26 weeks, we ended up having the baby and she passed after 2 days. Not sure if either of us could go through that again.
The 26 weeks thing is interesting though because a friend recently had a baby at 28 weeks and whilst small she is still fighting in nicu and will hopefully grow up happy and healthy.

I'm sorry for your loss, Sterge

 

[Run n Spread]

Why not have the kid and give it to one of the thousands of people who desperately want a child but can't have one?

Because there are upwards of 90000+ a year. Who is willing and able to adopt?

 

[Run n Spread]

I find the only people who are against it are the religious nut types and tbh if they think an imaginary man exists up in the sky then their opinion doesn't hold much weight with me anyway.
No reason to let 1 mistake ruin your whole life. In saying that I think, the man deserves a say. Either it's his choice too or he can opt out of any responsibility if she wants to keep it

A say how? Can voice an opinion and that is all. And some women will want to get knocked up no matter what. And whatever the circumstances.

 

[vanders]

I have never had one but I absolutely would if I ever fell pregnant. I don't ever want kids and never have, I take various precautions to make sure I don't get pregnant and It has worked so far thankfully but nothing is 100% certain to work 100% of the time so who knows. Hopefully I never find myself in that position.

I know a few women who have had them for various reasons, most of the time it was when they were young and not in a situation suitable to raise a child in.

Adoption has been mentioned in this thread already, personally I wouldnt be comfortable carrying a child for 9 months. I don't want to put my body through that and theres no guarantee that the baby would end up in a healthy environment. I would hate myself more for putting a baby in an abusive or unstable environment than I would by aborting it.