List Mgmt. Adelaide Crows 2021 List Management thread

[Danger in Texas]

Re chayce, i think that the club should invest in him as a long term small defender..as you say a luke brown replacement. His closing speed, ability to lay a tackle and his kicking skills will hopefully see him make that back pocket position his own for us for the next decade.

I tend to agree here. His defensive work is better than Moose's (who seems to play better without needing as much defensive responsibility, as an attacking half back). Plug Jones in a permanent back pocket once Brown retires, Moose on a half back flank

 

[baldandbroke]

You only need to see Doedee get pants anytime he's 1 on 1 to realise how easy the intercept role is.
The bloke cannot defend man on man.

Doedee is good 1 on 1 if they are similar size to him ...

Absolutely, couldn't be more wrong picking Doedee as a weak 1-on-1 defender?? He's always been good at winning the contest.

From a post draft article (https://www.afc.com.au/news/51784/the-story-behind-doedees-selection):

In Turner's eyes he was one of the only defenders in Victoria's premier under-18 competition to appear comfortable against Eastern Rangers goal machine (and Hawthorn draftee) Blake Hardwick, who booted 56 majors in 16 games.​

​

Doedee is an incredibly gifted athlete and tested inside the top 10 at the NAB AFL Draft Combine for relative vertical leap and agility.​

​

"A lot of people who follow the TAC Cup reckon he's the best one-on-one defender in the TAC Cup," Turner told AFL.com.au.​

​

"He used to play on Blake Hardwick who got drafted to Hawthorn, he was one of the very few players I could see controlling him.​

​

"The upside to him is he hasn't been in football for long, he's very athletic and he's got a lot of scope for development.​

​

"Adelaide, it's just a complete list management decision that they need a good one-on-one athletic defender that can play on small and talls and that's Tom Doedee – they've got a good player."​

As an aside, I'd love to see what he could do in the middle.

 

[skam85]

Some people just never bother to look at the FA compensation history.

Band 1
Joe Daniher
Zac Williams
Tom Lynch

Band 2
Scott Lycett
Tom Rockliff
Steven Motlop

Band 3
Brad Crouch
Aidan Corr
Brandon Ellis
Luke Dahlhaus
Ty Vickery
Daniel Wells
Chris Mayne
Scott Selwood

Band 4
Rory Atkins
Adam Tomlinson
Matt Suckling
Matthew Leuenberger

Band 5
Isaac Smith
Cam Ellis-Yolmen
Alex Fasolo

None
Shaun McKernan
Grant Birchall
Reece Conca
Jackson Trengove
Dawson Simpson
Nathan Brown

We'd have to be extremely stiff to receive a band 4 compensation for Matt Crouch. I highly doubt that would happen. Band 3 most likely with a chance of band 2

That list gives me hope we may get something for Lynch/Talia.

 

[Cap]

Absolutely, couldn't be more wrong picking Doedee as a weak 1-on-1 defender?? He's always been good at winning the contest.

From a post draft article (https://www.afc.com.au/news/51784/the-story-behind-doedees-selection):

In Turner's eyes he was one of the only defenders in Victoria's premier under-18 competition to appear comfortable against Eastern Rangers goal machine (and Hawthorn draftee) Blake Hardwick, who booted 56 majors in 16 games.​

​

Doedee is an incredibly gifted athlete and tested inside the top 10 at the NAB AFL Draft Combine for relative vertical leap and agility.​

​

"A lot of people who follow the TAC Cup reckon he's the best one-on-one defender in the TAC Cup," Turner told AFL.com.au.​

​

"He used to play on Blake Hardwick who got drafted to Hawthorn, he was one of the very few players I could see controlling him.​

​

"The upside to him is he hasn't been in football for long, he's very athletic and he's got a lot of scope for development.​

​

"Adelaide, it's just a complete list management decision that they need a good one-on-one athletic defender that can play on small and talls and that's Tom Doedee – they've got a good player."​

As an aside, I'd love to see what he could do in the middle.

Weirdly Blake Hardwick is now a defender. 181cm one at that.

 

[Bazz_27]

I tend to agree here. His defensive work is better than Moose's (who seems to play better without needing as much defensive responsibility, as an attacking half back). Plug Jones in a permanent back pocket once Brown retires, Moose on a half back flank

If Mcpherson is our attacking HBF then we are in a lot of trouble. His chance to play in the side is as a lockdown defender IMO. He hasn't been great at that this year either, hopefully more of what we saw in 2020 from him next year.

 

[ringo200]

Very left field and more a talking point than wanting this to happen -

If we want the compo pick from Matt leaving but are worried about lack of big bodies in the midfield to protect the younger guys with potential injuries to Sloane/laird/Keays next year - why not bring back CEY on the rookie list?

Would cost nothing in trade or salary, certainly doesn’t embarrass himself at AFL level, genuine big body can protect younger guys in a way someone like Laird really can’t, would likely be happy with a more peripheral role in the side to let others shine, likely happy to play SANFL.

Dumont and Dunstan likely cost more, more expectations of game time.

Biggest issue is the list spot depending on how many we look to draft this year.

 

[Danger in Texas]

If Mcpherson is our attacking HBF then we are in a lot of trouble. His chance to play in the side is as a lockdown defender IMO. He hasn't been great at that this year either, hopefully more of what we saw in 2020 from him next year.

Two words - Jamie Elliott

He shouldn't be our primary attacking HBF going forward, but he seems to play best to me as someone who provides run and carry across the D50. He doesn't necessarily have to have a booming kick like Smith to be successful in this role, either. He showed this confidence as the season went on, averaged 19 disposals per game when he last came back into the side

 

[Vader]

Very left field and more a talking point than wanting this to happen -

If we want the compo pick from Matt leaving but are worried about lack of big bodies in the midfield to protect the younger guys with potential injuries to Sloane/laird/Keays next year - why not bring back CEY on the rookie list?

Would cost nothing in trade or salary, certainly doesn’t embarrass himself at AFL level, genuine big body can protect younger guys in a way someone like Laird really can’t, would likely be happy with a more peripheral role in the side to let others shine, likely happy to play SANFL.

Dumont and Dunstan likely cost more, more expectations of game time.

Biggest issue is the list spot depending on how many we look to draft this year.

How about we don't get any of the players you named - CEY, Dumont, or Dunstan?

 

[PoholkMe10]

If Mcpherson is our attacking HBF then we are in a lot of trouble. His chance to play in the side is as a lockdown defender IMO. He hasn't been great at that this year either, hopefully more of what we saw in 2020 from him next year.

McPherson doesn't have much flair but his run from behind and hit up out of defence and into the 50 is pretty good. Opens up a lot of play for us and laced out Fogarty plenty of times in the back half of the year. I think he and Jones compliment each other pretty well.

 

[Gtowncrow]

Some people just never bother to look at the FA compensation history.

Band 1
Joe Daniher
Zac Williams
Tom Lynch

Band 2
Scott Lycett
Tom Rockliff
Steven Motlop

Band 3
Brad Crouch
Aidan Corr
Brandon Ellis
Luke Dahlhaus
Ty Vickery
Daniel Wells
Chris Mayne
Scott Selwood

Band 4
Rory Atkins
Adam Tomlinson
Matt Suckling
Matthew Leuenberger

Band 5
Isaac Smith
Cam Ellis-Yolmen
Alex Fasolo

None
Shaun McKernan
Grant Birchall
Reece Conca
Jackson Trengove
Dawson Simpson
Nathan Brown

We'd have to be extremely stiff to receive a band 4 compensation for Matt Crouch. I highly doubt that would happen. Band 3 most likely with a chance of band 2

Based purely on your list, Matt Crouch is the best of the band 3 players and is to my eye, very comfortable in the band 2 group. Are we really saying that mcrouch is a less attractive trade than Motlop?
I saw a lot of Motlop over here in his last couple of years and when he was in the seniors, he was hopeless. I was surprised he even got an offer.
I'll never be able to be convinced that mcrouch is a lesser player than Motlop. Bottom line!

 

[texanmike]

Based purely on your list, Matt Crouch is the best of the band 3 players and is to my eye, very comfortable in the band 2 group. Are we really saying that mcrouch is a less attractive trade than Motlop?
I saw a lot of Motlop over here in his last couple of years and when he was in the seniors, he was hopeless. I was surprised he even got an offer.
I'll never be able to be convinced that mcrouch is a lesser player than Motlop. Bottom line!

totally agree, if matt leaves ill melt if we get band 3 comp again...should definitely be BAND 2.

 

[Danger in Texas]

totally agree, if matt leaves ill melt if we get band 3 comp again...should definitely be BAND 2.

You’ll melt over a 4 pick differential?

 

[Skippos]

If Mcpherson is our attacking HBF then we are in a lot of trouble. His chance to play in the side is as a lockdown defender IMO. He hasn't been great at that this year either, hopefully more of what we saw in 2020 from him next year.

McPherson's not an 'attacking' half back. He's an accumulator with low defensive abilities.

He's not a worse player this year. The new rules have just cooked him. Half of his disposals in prior years have been lateral chip kicks in transition/holding the ball up. With the new rules there is literally no reason why a bloke in possession would take up that option, so he's just not getting the ball. High disposal counts don't equal offensive prowess, unfortunately.

 

[Dogga]

Based purely on your list, Matt Crouch is the best of the band 3 players and is to my eye, very comfortable in the band 2 group. Are we really saying that mcrouch is a less attractive trade than Motlop?
I saw a lot of Motlop over here in his last couple of years and when he was in the seniors, he was hopeless. I was surprised he even got an offer.
I'll never be able to be convinced that mcrouch is a lesser player than Motlop. Bottom line!

No doubt some funny business from headquarters with Motlop rated band 2. I believe the Cats traded the Motlop compo to the Suns to facilitate the return of Ablett.

 

[Soggy2112]

No doubt some funny business from headquarters with Motlop rated band 2. I believe the Cats traded the Motlop compo to the Suns to facilitate the return of Ablett.

It’s all about the contract not the value of the player is it not?

 

[Mutineer]

Very left field and more a talking point than wanting this to happen -

If we want the compo pick from Matt leaving but are worried about lack of big bodies in the midfield to protect the younger guys with potential injuries to Sloane/laird/Keays next year - why not bring back CEY on the rookie list?

Would cost nothing in trade or salary, certainly doesn’t embarrass himself at AFL level, genuine big body can protect younger guys in a way someone like Laird really can’t, would likely be happy with a more peripheral role in the side to let others shine, likely happy to play SANFL.

Dumont and Dunstan likely cost more, more expectations of game time.

Biggest issue is the list spot depending on how many we look to draft this year.

 

[Thetrader15]

That list gives me hope we may get something for Lynch/Talia.

the way we have structured our deal, Matt will go for a 4 or 5 year deal on 600 or so a year, so we will get band 3.

He'll be in the top 10 possession and clearances players next year too.

#Bookmark

 

[Thetrader15]

totally agree, if matt leaves ill melt if we get band 3 comp again...should definitely be BAND 2.

It all depends on what deal he gets. I think he'll get a Brad style deal, longer but low money because we have offered a short contract probably on reasonable money.

We haven't learnt anything from how it went down last year with Brad's contract negotiations when we left this option on the table for other clubs to exploit.

 

[Relaxed]

Very left field and more a talking point than wanting this to happen -

If we want the compo pick from Matt leaving but are worried about lack of big bodies in the midfield to protect the younger guys with potential injuries to Sloane/laird/Keays next year - why not bring back CEY on the rookie list?

Would cost nothing in trade or salary, certainly doesn’t embarrass himself at AFL level, genuine big body can protect younger guys in a way someone like Laird really can’t, would likely be happy with a more peripheral role in the side to let others shine, likely happy to play SANFL.

Dumont and Dunstan likely cost more, more expectations of game time.

Biggest issue is the list spot depending on how many we look to draft this year.

A lot of discussion around here has been the lack of opportunities and lack of rotations through the Centre Bounce Attendance numbers. Most clubs rotate at least 6 or 7 players through there, Crows tend to stick to 4 or 5 guys, with Shoenberg really the only younger guy to get a go. Because Laird, Sloane and Keays are almost always in there (and potentially Crouch if he stays) potential injuries to the older brigade would actually give the younger guys a much needed opportunity for development in that role, to see if they have what it takes. Season 2022 is not necessarily about winning enough games to get into finals, it is about developing and building the squad to the point where we can be a real finals contender around 2024 where the guys drafted since 2018 start to reach a peak together.

We currently still have Hately who is big bodied 191cm, 91kgs, if he has recovered from his groin and hip soreness next season.
Luke Pedlar also likes going in hard and at this stage we currently still have RoC who is also a larger frame at 191cm, 85kgs.
Also don't forget about Mitch Hinge, who came over from Brisbane and dislocated his shoulder in the first game. 190cm, 91kgs.

Also need to see how Wayne Milera comes back from his patella and where he fits in at the club.

Rookie list needs to be used to develop some X-factor Charlie Cameron or potential ruckman types, high risk, high reward. The team doesn't need another known quantity break glass emergency type.

 

[Rory Walkerfield]

Hopefully Hamill can make the best choice for himself

I heard feenix67 ? maybe say that one way would be to strengthen his neck/shoulder area to improve his core strength preventing whiplash

Hamill could do worse than spending time with Seedsman to understand how he developed his game to protect himself. Both built like absolute whippets. Seedsman only an inch or two taller than Hamill. Seedsman in his younger days would have been a prime candidate to get rag dolled.

 

[ABAB]

M Crouch has never been a particularly impactful or damaging player and role change or not, even at his peak in my eyes was expendable. He’s a Priddis or even Rockliff clone with a bit less grunt and Priddis had very little influence on his team’s performance.

Him missing a year probably does more for his value than if he’d played. IMO he’d have been shown up quite a lot with the new style of play. Heck, even Cripps - who’s a much stronger contested ball winner but with a similar skeleton that his game is built around to Crouch - has become a low B/high C grader now.

Slow mids who don’t break the game open by foot and don’t defend don’t have a market. Ask Dom Sheed or Seb Ross who’s in a similar boat. Even B Crouch, who you could at least pretend has some burst, wasn’t hot property last year. You don’t have time to take the ball backwards and lateral now.

Clubs want an inside bull, a balanced first receiver with some silk and class and a defensive side mid who’ll run both ways but primarily needs to tackle and pressure. A Willem Drew type.

IMO the only way a player like Crouch who’s just a boring accumulator can fit in is if they’re occupying that defensive role - as in pressuring, negating and tackling their role is complete so what they do on the offensive end is a bonus - see Steele or Keays. Both accumulators but their real benefit is doing that while defending well.

And we know what Matt’s defence is like.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Priddis is an elite inside midfielder who won the Brownlow based of what he excel at doing, you need them win and dish the ball out to the outside players. And I don't recall M.Crouch being very poor defensively in 2017, when he was in and under he was very good defensively and average around 5 tackle per game, dropped to 4 and 3.5 the next 2 years where he was playing more outside and didn't have the speed or endurance to be defensively efficient.

 

[Soggy2112]

I’m really on the fence about what we do with Matt Crouch

5

Matt Crouch

Age

30

Ht

181cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

28.4

5star

K

12.0

4star

HB

16.4

5star

M

3.3

3star

T

3.9

5star

CL

4.8

5star

D

24.9

5star

K

9.7

4star

HB

15.1

5star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.4

3star

CL

4.4

5star

D

21.2

5star

K

10.4

4star

HB

10.8

5star

M

4.4

4star

T

3.4

5star

CL

2.0

4star

.

On one hand I think with the emergence of Keats and Laird being the established 100+ gamer in there I feel like we need to be getting Schoenberg, Pedlar, McHenry, Hately etc in there as much as possible and adding in another accumulator, albeit a very good one in Crouch is just going to clog it up. If we could get a late first round/ early second round pick for him, or maybe two second rounds and target areas of need in the draft that’d be ideal.

On the other hand I think we’ve forgotten just how good he is as an inside distributor and at 26 he could well be an integral part of our next premiership tilt and Nicks should be looking for a way to integrate him into the midfield without taking minutes off those younger guys. I could see a team structure where Crouch could be dishing it off to the likes of Schoenberg, Cook, McHenry and Sholl that would be really beneficial for the team and those guys.

 

[Crow till I die]

I’m really on the fence about what we do with Matt Crouch.

On one hand I think with the emergence of Keats and Laird being the established 100+ gamer in there I feel like we need to be getting Schoenberg, Pedlar, McHenry, Hately etc in there as much as possible and adding in another accumulator, albeit a very good one in Crouch is just going to clog it up. If we could get a late first round/ early second round pick for him, or maybe two second rounds and target areas of need in the draft that’d be ideal.

On the other hand I think we’ve forgotten just how good he is as an inside distributor and at 26 he could well be an integral part of our next premiership tilt and Nicks should be looking for a way to integrate him into the midfield without taking minutes off those younger guys. I could see a team structure where Crouch could be dishing it off to the likes of Schoenberg, Cook, McHenry and Sholl that would be really beneficial for the team and those guys.

What if we ended up turning Crouch into say Dawson from a list perspective..ie Matt explores free agency and we end up with band 2 or 3 compo and we flip that to Sydney for Dawson. We lose Matt's ball winning ability but add to the list an elite ball user. I would be ok with that as we have plenty of guys to run through the middle and no doubt pick 4 will be used on another top end mid

 

[Thetrader15]

Interesting all this talk of Crouch only being an inside mid and not having any value in today's game, yet talk of how bad our list management is with the very similar Jarrod Lyons touted as a top 5 player in the competition.

Hopper
Lyons
Crouch
Mitchell
Cunnington

All amazing mids who are so influential to their team's success.

 

[Dangarman]

Geez, just noticed that with Talia and Lynch departing, our only 150+ games players are Sloane, Walker, Smith, Laird and Brown.

Seeds has 132, Crouch 125 and Kelly 110. Milera next on 62.

Only 3 players between Brown (178) and Milera.