List Mgmt. AFC Player Contracts - Updates Please

Discussion in 'Adelaide' started by Mad Dog, Dec 8, 2005.

Put it out there
  1. Vader

    Vader Sith Lord

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    That's worse than signing Mackay to a 4-year deal. At least Mackay was in the best 22 when that deal was done, and didn't fall out of the best 22 until the 3rd year of his contract. Menzel has never been in our best 22, and probably never will be. Giving him 4 years is bordering on criminal negligence.
     
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  2. Glenny83

    Glenny83 All Australian

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    True but I'd say he'd be on about 300k and the fourth might have a trigger clause. Plus...he might come good, he's young.


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  3. Scorpus

    Scorpus Snake Poison

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    No it's not. Menzel had a chance of being good when the contract was signed. Mackay did not have a chance, because he was a known (non-)entity
     
  4. Vader

    Vader Sith Lord

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    We can only hope. I think the odds of him "coming good" are slightly worse than the odds of Pharlap coming back to win a 2nd Melbourne Cup.
    Anyone who spoke to Carlton supporters would have said otherwise. Carlton couldn't get him out the door quick enough. He was a known quantity alright.. and I shudder to think what Menzel must be if Mackay is/was a non-entity. Mackay is what he is, Menzel is much worse.
     
  5. Scorpus

    Scorpus Snake Poison

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    This is re-writing history a little bit. Menzel has looked far worse at the Crows than at Carlton. He had a ripping first two seasons and slowed in the third, had a bunch of injuries, etc. He was hardly a 120-game borderline-best 22 known quantity veteran. There was every chance he could have recaptured his early career form considering we traded him in as a 21-year-old.

    Giving Mackay a 4-year allegedly-$400k contract is one of the most baffling decisions this club has ever made considering our contracting policy at the time (we rarely if ever gave 4 year contracts), his form at the time over three years (borderline best 22), and his age (very little room for improvement).

    4 years for Menzel was probably 1 year too long, but it's only after we gave him the contract it appears to be a bust. Mackay was a bust before we gave him the contract.
     
  6. Glenny83

    Glenny83 All Australian

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    Kerridge no longer in their best 22. I'm happy with the trade, greater scope for improvement and in the words of a Chris Judd, '...is a big game player'. Give him one big game in the ones and watch his confidence soar.


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  7. Vader

    Vader Sith Lord

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    I think they'll get more games out of Kerridge than we will out of Menzel, even if Kerridge never plays another game for them.
     
  8. Glenny83

    Glenny83 All Australian

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    I disagree although not convinced on Menzel either. IMO his career is at the balance and if it tips towards complete commitment and hard attack at the ball damning all costs, his talent will be there and we have a great player.


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  9. Thetrader15

    Thetrader15 Premiership Player

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    I'm getting the impression you aren't a fan?
     
  10. Bicks

    Bicks Premium Platinum

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    He's not alone there, Menzel has been an epic under performer thus far and I'm not seeing much improvement this year over last year's dismal output.
     
  11. Vader

    Vader Sith Lord

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    Of Menzel? No.
     
  12. Vader

    Vader Sith Lord

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    I have greater admiration for Jared Petrenko than I do for Troy Menzel.

    Petrenko was a player of very limited talents. He was good at tackling, and applying defensive pressure when the opposition had the ball, but that's pretty much all he had going for him. He lacked the footy smarts to read the play and win the ball for himself, hence his high tackle counts (the result of him getting to the ball after his opponent). He lacked composure on the rare occasions when he did get the ball - and this was particularly evident whenever he was kicking for goal. He would proverbially, and almost literally, shit himself in fear when attempting to kick the ball between the big sticks.

    For all of those flaws, nobody could ever question his work ethic. Petrenko always gave 100%, both on and off the field. He probably shouldn't have played more than 30 games, given his lack of talent. I infamously (and incorrectly) said that he wouldn't get to 50. He ended up playing 76 AFL games - a return which is partly attributable to our lack of small forward alternatives at the time, but mostly to his impeccable work ethic.

    Petrenko never gave up trying, and for that he has my respect.

    Menzel is the polar opposite of Petrenko. Menzel is a player with a sublime talent. Based on his talent, he should be a 200+ game player. He's currently stuck on 26 games, only 4 of which have been for Adelaide. Carlton recognised his laziness and couldn't wait to push him out the door, when Adelaide foolishly came knocking. Menzel has all the talent you could want, but he lacks an AFL-standard work ethic. He doesn't push himself hard enough, and I think he's destined to be remembered as a failure as a result. I will be shocked if he comes close to matching Petrenko's 76 AFL games.

    Given the choice between a hard working player of limited talents, and a talented but lazy player, I take the blue collar worker every single time. Of course I prefer players who are both talented and hard working, but we live in the real world and not every player falls into that category.

    Anyone who was around BF 5 years ago will know that I didn't rate Petrenko particularly highly. Nothing has changed in that regard. I respect him for what he achieved, given his lack of talent. I cannot respect a player, like Menzel, who is too lazy to make the most of a prodigious talent.
     
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  13. Scorpus

    Scorpus Snake Poison

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    Generally a fair assessment of Menzel there but not sure I agree with this statement.

    Selecting limited-talent blue collar workers is how we continually get stuck with players like Mackay, Van Berlo, Doughty, and now Otten in the side for so long. I'd rather rotate young lazy but talented players through the AFL team to see who will 'make it' and who has genuine scope for development, instead of giving too many games to blue collar workers that ultimately take us nowhere.
     
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  14. Vader

    Vader Sith Lord

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    Don't get me wrong... I'd prefer to have genuinely talented players in the team too. But if the talented player just doesn't have the drive, the willingness to do the hard yards, then the blue collar worker gets the nod from me.

    For most of their careers (their entire career in Doughty's case), these players weren't keeping talented youngsters out. We just didn't have the talent on our list. We do now, and Mackay is in the magoos.

    Otten doesn't lack talent, it's just that his body is shot after multiple knee injuries. I guess the end result is the same. Otten served a purpose earlier in the season, initially replacing Talia, then JJ, then McGovern. There's no longer any valid reason for keeping him in the team, and I will be disappointed if I see his name on the selection sheet this week.
     
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  15. Red mist

    Red mist Reynholm Industries

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    Who are we going to shed out of this 2017 list to make sure there is room for two we want providing there is no war chest and have to make the space with delisting and renegotiating of contracts?
     
  16. GreyCrow

    GreyCrow Brownlow Medallist

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    Gore, Shaw and Thompson should be the 1st looked at. They would be my 1st. Otten I would look to utilise a trade/draft situation. CEY may get the Sam Shaw 1 year good bloke contract. Wigg was extended I think.
     
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  17. NTRabbit

    NTRabbit Brownlow Medallist

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    Shaw is in a rookie spot, he doesn't count for that.

    Gore and Thompson are ironed on departures, absolutely no question. After that, most likely are Wigg and CEY, then Dear and Cheney, depending on what happens with Lever and McGovern.

    As for rookies, Greenwood will be promoted, Jarman retained, but the question is what happens to Beech; we already know Shaw is definitely medically retired and gone, Hunter likely to go.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2017
  18. Red mist

    Red mist Reynholm Industries

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    Wigg? Nah he wasn't extended was he? He be an out for me. I agree with those three at the start. Choice between Cheney or Kelly if you were deciding? Or is that what the club is exactly deciding now?
     
  19. GreyCrow

    GreyCrow Brownlow Medallist

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    Personally , I'm confused.

    I had all these arguments that it would be Kelly all day every day , yet strategically I can see the benefit in keeping Cheney as he looks most unlikely to leave and have value. ie Kelly as the younger would have more long term upside. Yet there would also be the worry, giving who his dad is, that he would look at offers and leave for Victoria.

    I dont see Cheney as one who is in demand. I think they both bring equal talent at the moment, but Kelly does have better upside. Maybe I would like a man conversation first :p
     
  20. Red mist

    Red mist Reynholm Industries

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    So you are undecided. I choose Kelly. We rookied him and he's bought in. Cheney is at his third club and has helped us greatly but I'd say he's a tad older and got the injury knock ATM.
     
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  21. Red mist

    Red mist Reynholm Industries

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    Well I think you are perfectly able to trim for what would be required if we didn't have a war chest, which we don't.
     
  22. Murray2503

    Murray2503 Club Legend

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    If we aren't playing Menzel he needs to be traded out. For his sake and ours
     
  23. MRB37

    MRB37 Brownlow Medallist

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    Wigg will be gone whether we want to keep him or not.

    Cheney staying is probably dependent on what Lever does. Wouldn't be the worst guy to offer a cheap 1 year deal to and I don't know if he'd get better offers elsewhere. Otten is a difficult one, but I'd let him go if freeing up the salary let's us make moves elsewhere.
     
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  24. Murray2503

    Murray2503 Club Legend

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    Beech is not Afl standard. He will be delisted this year or next.
     
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  25. NTRabbit

    NTRabbit Brownlow Medallist

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    The club is going to try to keep Otten, it's the most obvious thing in the world, it all comes down to whether or not Otten wants to take a FA deal.