AFL 2018 - R2 - Geelong v Hawthorn, 3.20pm, MCG

[TheFourPillars]

Glad you agree. Would like some evidence of this 'trying to draw free kicks' but I'm not holding my breath.

I cant be bothered mate as i said till next time

 

[JoondalupJ]

Selwood is a champion, don’t knock him. You don’t think he doesn’t do those things you listed above? I suggest you watch another sport if you think so.

Ha ha ha , of course Selwood is a champion, when he plays football , but not when he plays for free kicks.
If that's the spirit of the game that the bleeding AFL have created the last 5 or 10 years then maybe we need another sport like Australian Rules Football and another Kerry Packer typed money man.

But probably not ,maybe just a total restructuring of this commission and the sacking of the sycophants who work inside this dirty little dictatorship.

And where is Tasmania's team as well.

We all end up arguing about likes and dislikes of players , because the AFL created plastic half baked rule committee has frustrated proper supporters to the umpteenth degree.

And you barrack for Melbourne, wait it'll your turn soon.

I like to vent my spleen but I'll tell you I don't dislike clubs or players in general, I am just lost on the AFL and what it has done to change the game .

 

[JoondalupJ]

Honestly, the Hawks weren't the only team to be using that 'rushed behind' tactic. It was going on all year and nobody cried about it until Geelong lost the Grand Final in 2008.

Also, the reason they lost 2008 had more to do with Tom Harley being concussed in the second quarter, and Cameron Mooney having an absolute mare (to put this into context, in the 2007 GF they had a dominant spearhead in Mooney when he scored 5 goals, 1 behind - but in 2008 Mooney couldn't hit the side of a barn). People also forget how putrid Stokes and Varcoe played in that game, too. Geelong literally had no tall talent in their forward line firing (the loss of Nathan Ablett was a big loss) and it's pretty obvious they were soundly trounced when it came to outside run.

Thanks for those comments, also Sammy belting Abblett every time he went near the ball, your new coach going berserk kicking three I think goals and what a smart grab he was from SA by Alistair Clarkson!!!
The hitting the ball through the goals or runnin g it through was a legal tactic, then, not like Selwood illegal arm up shoulder down free kick drawing, but even when the rule was changed it soprt of ran out of legs , like the shoulder drop seems to have , as razor calls every one he sees, so I don't know where he lost his rule instructions, makes them up as he goes, would like to see Hawthorn aply to have him never umpire our games , like Darren Goldspink, he was abominable, he provoked anmd talked to players like they were kids, and more than like had a hell of a lot to do with angering players and starting the
"line in the sand" and let me tell you he was absolutely part of the reason that happened. Why players get angry.

 

[jackenny]

Thanks for those comments, also Sammy belting Abblett every time he went near the ball, your new coach going berserk kicking three I think goals and what a smart grab he was from SA by Alistair Clarkson!!!
The hitting the ball through the goals or runnin g it through was a legal tactic, then, not like Selwood illegal arm up shoulder down free kick drawing, but even when the rule was changed it soprt of ran out of legs , like the shoulder drop seems to have , as razor calls every one he sees, so I don't know where he lost his rule instructions, makes them up as he goes, would like to see Hawthorn aply to have him never umpire our games , like Darren Goldspink, he was abominable, he provoked anmd talked to players like they were kids, and more than like had a hell of a lot to do with angering players and starting the
"line in the sand" and let me tell you he was absolutely part of the reason that happened. Why players get angry.

It was simply just how things went that day.

Very much like Sydney vs Bulldogs. I tipped Sydney, but for whatever reason the bounce of the ball just didn't fall their way, an injury to a key-player like Buddy put them at a distinct disadvantage. You could see Sydney's midfield trying to will the rest of the team over the line (Kennedy, Mitchell), but obviously to no avail.

In the same way, Geelong's backline took a big hit with Harley being concussed (their captain, their stronghold being their backline - the best I've ever seen as a whole unit). Their midfield kept them in it for as long as they did (specifically, their real star power in Ablett, Bartel, etc), but some of the Hawk's no-names decided to play well for whatever reason to offset this (for example, Ellis, Osborne, Ladson, and Young playing out of their skins). Geelong had no forward-line. The Hawks had Buddy, Roughead, Williams - they also had an emerging Rioli.

 

[azyboy]

I will enjoy, but juvenile? sometimes I emphasise things that ruin a game .

Really this stuff happens all the time. Look I don't hate your club and I am surprised that it seems you've never read what I have said in the past.

Yesterday I got infuriated with the umpires , but I have been talking about the AFL rule changing and fiddling with the game for years, and I do believe that players use these petty changes to get away with stuff, Selwood is an expert at it, and yes he will keep doing it until these umpires stop paying it.

So my question to you is, why is that , why don't they stop paying it? Its a good question.

Ray Chamberlain and that other experienced umpire , I don't know his name, they must know Selwood well by now , we all do , we all really do.

So why do they pay it to him all the time?

Yes Poppy does but very rarely , Selwood has made a practiced skill out of something that is bordering on cheating.
But once again this was about what frees just got ignored , both sides too.

But my side as per usual get the shitty end of the stick when we play your club.

Don't be fooled, I know how good your team is, so I'm not knocking your team I'm simply seeing inadequacies in the rules and umpires scoring goals for clubs.
It never used to be any where near this bad.
And when you lose because of it, it is enraging, we won, by a point , we out played your team yesterday most of the match , a couple of comebacks for Geelong with help and yes, also great play , but we held sway and still had to fight the rule book and mis judgement to scrounge a win.

So my friend I appreciate your frankness, the major point is 9 games a week , and every one has anomalies in the umpiring , sometimes to a point where it becomes unwatchable.

I sort of think that's a problem yes no? And I watch quite a few games weekly , and it happens to everyone.

If the younger public accept this fiddling by AFL pencil pushers.
And give umpires a power with petty fifties, as well, that help teams score! Then the game's in trouble, and the gambling , that too is a dangerous thing .

Also we should be able to converse without insults at the end of a post too mate.

Venting in capital letters on an Internet forum is juvenile. But it’s the behaviour I was critical of. Not the individual. Apologies if you took it as an insult directed at your person.

Mate, I don’t know why they pay the Selwood free kicks? That’s a question for Messrs Hocking, Williams and the AFL. I’d be happy for play on and I’m sure Joel would adapt.

I get that umpires frustrate. And yes, Geelong had the rub of the green yesterday although there were (as you say) misses on both sides. But I’ve never seen an umpire or umpires determine a result of 120 plus minutes of football in my 40 years on this planet. That’s why coaches don’t waste their time on worrying about them.

I learned long ago that players control a team’s destiny. It’s poor skill execution that leads to costly turnovers, poor decision making and poor discipline that tip the balance in a close match. Geelong showed very little composure with the ball yesterday in the last frantic minutes and that’s what cost them the game. Smith and co executed better. The missed Dureya throw, the Danger non-holding the ball, the Cyril holding the ball etc all were frustrating umpiring byproducts but, in isolation, they don’t cost you the game.

Missed shots at goal in the first half, missed targets, missed handballs, missed tackles, poor discipline leading to 50m penalties etc all have a bigger influence than the odd umpiring decision. They are what cost you games.

 

[demondavey]

Ha ha ha , of course Selwood is a champion, when he plays football , but not when he plays for free kicks.
If that's the spirit of the game that the bleeding AFL have created the last 5 or 10 years then maybe we need another sport like Australian Rules Football and another Kerry Packer typed money man.

But probably not ,maybe just a total restructuring of this commission and the sacking of the sycophants who work inside this dirty little dictatorship.

And where is Tasmania's team as well.

We all end up arguing about likes and dislikes of players , because the AFL created plastic half baked rule committee has frustrated proper supporters to the umpteenth degree.

And you barrack for Melbourne, wait it'll your turn soon.

I like to vent my spleen but I'll tell you I don't dislike clubs or players in general, I am just lost on the AFL and what it has done to change the game .

You lost me at ‘Melbourne’ and ‘you’re turn soon’

 

[romeohwho]

Its simple alright the ones that do the 1%ers so your team mates do the rest, you need to look deeper at what makes a footballer and what tactics are being delivered , Cyril does a job, but I guess if you can fool umpires into paying you numerous around the neck too high s' then your doing some kind of job too, don't know what , but something?

Haha pretty sure Selwood does actually contribute but do carry on.
If you think cyril’s 7 touches in yesterday’s game were worth shouting about then it’s probably you who needs to brush up on footy know how.
On a more interesting note, why are so many hawkers supporters so deeply paranoid?

 

[hk89]

Missed shots at goal in the first half, missed targets, missed handballs, missed tackles, poor discipline leading to 50m penalties etc all have a bigger influence than the odd umpiring decision. They are what cost you games.

I've never really understood the line of thinking that doesn't lump bad umpiring decisions in with the rest of those factors. Of course it is silly to say a single umpiring decision cost you the game, in the same way it is silly to blame a player who misses a kick after the siren on losing the game. However an umpire mistake can easily have the same impact as a missed target, missed handball, missed tackle etc. I think people that put them in separate buckets, do so because they don't want to sound like whingers, but at the end of the day, they are all factors that mix together to create the final outcome, so I don't see why they shouldn't be part of the conversation.

Irrespective of the umpiring , I thought Geelong did a very good job in the backline given they were missing two of their talls, and the number of inside 50s we were getting. Having Harry in would likely have stopped at least some of Roughy's scores, and overall you did a good job of keeping a lid on our small forwards. Duncan playing would have had a big change on the midfield dynamic too. Scott probably wanted to play Danger forward more than he did, but couldn't afford to with Mitchell getting so much of the ball. Duncan playing would have provided a lot more flexibility in how you used your 'holy trinity' mids.

While we had some outs (and one during the game which always hurts more than a pre-game loss), I think Geelong tend to be hurt more when their good players are missing, as they seem to have a game plan that is more reliant on individual performances than Hawthorn does. Hawthorn has a system where the parts are a bit more interchangeable. For better or worse, Scott hasn't really built that type of system, so when key players are missing the side seems to notice it more. Geelong have some decent depth, but when the young/inexperienced guys come in, they seem to be less aware of their roles than they could be, which seems to be entirely a coaching issue. So if both sides had their best team in, I have no doubt Geelong would have been more competitive across the course of the game. Whether it will be enough for them to get over the line in the next encounter, I think will depend on whether we can tighten up on our skills inside 50. 4 posters, and generally poor shooting at goal went a long way to keeping you in it. On the other hand, you'd expect Selwood/Ablett/Dangerfield to improve on how they work together as the season goes on, and that Scott will find ways of optimising their roles to best suit the team. Hopefully the next game will be another cracker.

 

[WWSD]

First player they zoom on after the siren was Cyril, who did absolutely nothing lol.

No impact from Rioli and O'Meara plus no Burgoyne, Frawley and Birchall and Hawthorn still won. People talk about Hawthorn's lack of talent coming through but Geelong will be in worse position in two years time.

 

[azyboy]

I've never really understood the line of thinking that doesn't lump bad umpiring decisions in with the rest of those factors. Of course it is silly to say a single umpiring decision cost you the game, in the same way it is silly to blame a player who misses a kick after the siren on losing the game. However an umpire mistake can easily have the same impact as a missed target, missed handball, missed tackle etc. I think people that put them in separate buckets, do so because they don't want to sound like whingers, but at the end of the day, they are all factors that mix together to create the final outcome, so I don't see why they shouldn't be part of the conversation.

Irrespective of the umpiring , I thought Geelong did a very good job in the backline given they were missing two of their talls, and the number of inside 50s we were getting. Having Harry in would likely have stopped at least some of Roughy's scores, and overall you did a good job of keeping a lid on our small forwards. Duncan playing would have had a big change on the midfield dynamic too. Scott probably wanted to play Danger forward more than he did, but couldn't afford to with Mitchell getting so much of the ball. Duncan playing would have provided a lot more flexibility in how you used your 'holy trinity' mids.

While we had some outs (and one during the game which always hurts more than a pre-game loss), I think Geelong tend to be hurt more when their good players are missing, as they seem to have a game plan that is more reliant on individual performances than Hawthorn does. Hawthorn has a system where the parts are a bit more interchangeable. For better or worse, Scott hasn't really built that type of system, so when key players are missing the side seems to notice it more. Geelong have some decent depth, but when the young/inexperienced guys come in, they seem to be less aware of their roles than they could be, which seems to be entirely a coaching issue. So if both sides had their best team in, I have no doubt Geelong would have been more competitive across the course of the game. Whether it will be enough for them to get over the line in the next encounter, I think will depend on whether we can tighten up on our skills inside 50. 4 posters, and generally poor shooting at goal went a long way to keeping you in it. On the other hand, you'd expect Selwood/Ablett/Dangerfield to improve on how they work together as the season goes on, and that Scott will find ways of optimising their roles to best suit the team. Hopefully the next game will be another cracker.

For me I think it’s the balance of play vs. umpiring decisions. There’s what, 700 plus possessions most games vs. anywhere from 20-50 free kicks? So you might have 100 skill errors vs. 5 dodgy (missed) free kicks. I see your point though that you could lump umpire decisions into the whole gamut of reasons - I just think it’s less likely to be the determining factor when you weigh up the weight of numbers.

Agree with everything else - hawks system is very good and it was particularly hard for Cats to navigate in the first half. That involves everyone playing a role and as you say, is more interchangeable. And yes, Cats should never have been in it and were outplayed for 90% of th day.

Cats do rely heavily on their stars and they haven’t gelled as yet - I think the midfield trio will be strengthened by Duncan’s return but I think it will be S Selwood and his grunt work, that will free Danger up and allow him to play more forward. It’s all good on paper but it’s goi g to be a challenge to get it right and it will take some time.

Can we reserve the ‘holy trinity’ terminology for the Religion board (if BF has one)? It’s cringeworthy.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Haha pretty sure Selwood does actually contribute but do carry on.
If you think cyril’s 7 touches in yesterday’s game were worth shouting about then it’s probably you who needs to brush up on footy know how.
On a more interesting note, why are so many hawkers supporters so deeply paranoid?

He was originally replying to me (another hawk) who agreed that Cyril hadn't seemed to do much in the game.

 

[romeohwho]

He was originally replying to me (another hawk) who agreed that Cyril hadn't seemed to do much in the game.

Oh my apologies. Love Cyril but we can all agree he needs a couple of games under his belt.

 

[HAWKS115CATS89]

I really admire Selwood. He goes in and gets the ball. He wouldnt get any high frees if he didnt go in and get it!

 

[PeanutButter Pies]

Anyone know when Lachie Henderson will be back?

 

[HAWKS115CATS89]

Anyone know when Lachie Henderson will be back?

r4 i heard

 

[Fabes]

You lost me at ‘Melbourne’ and ‘you’re turn soon’

Obviously I don't follow the Dees like you do, considering they're your team. And obviously I haven't gone through the heartbreak and disappointment of years gone when they (Melbourne) were hopeless.

So I really can't comment or fathom how you must be feeling around not getting hopes up again, in case they let you down, again.

However in quite a lot of your posts in threads throughout Bigfooty of late, you're really not giving them much chance. Whether internally you are, but externally you're worried about getting ahead of yourself for fear of disappointment, I just wanted to say this:

Mate! Melbourne WILL make finals this year. I'd bet my house on it (I have a pretty good tent I got from BCF for Christmas, should I ever lose my house - but I digress).

Two rounds in. A close loss for which they really should have won and a close win for which they would have lost in seasons gone.

Early days and with some players to come back and more game time together, especially with the talent available, a decent coach and strong game plan, the Dees will be well and truly amongst it in September IMHO.

That's all. Cheers

 

[demondavey]

Obviously I don't follow the Dees like you do, considering they're your team. And obviously I haven't gone through the heartbreak and disappointment of years gone when they (Melbourne) were hopeless.

So I really can't comment or fathom how you must be feeling around not getting hopes up again, in case they let you down, again.

However in quite a lot of your posts in threads throughout Bigfooty of late, you're really not giving them much chance. Whether internally you are, but externally you're worried about getting ahead of yourself for fear of disappointment, I just wanted to say this:

Mate! Melbourne WILL make finals this year. I'd bet my house on it (I have a pretty good tent I got from BCF for Christmas, should I ever lose my house - but I digress).

Two rounds in. A close loss for which they really should have won and a close win for which they would have lost in seasons gone.

Early days and with some players to come back and more game time together, especially with the talent available, a decent coach and strong game plan, the Dees will be well and truly amongst it in September IMHO.

That's all. Cheers

Appreciate your optimism but unfortunately there’s nothing to suggest thus far we are a top 8 outfit. The theme I’ve been consistent with is because the same patterns have been repeated the first two games this year. There’s been nothing to suggest change.

I just can’t believe people aren’t giving North a better chance at top 8.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

No impact from Rioli and O'Meara plus no Burgoyne, Frawley and Birchall and Hawthorn still won. People talk about Hawthorn's lack of talent coming through but Geelong will be in worse position in two years time.

Doubtful. I don’t think either club is in a bad position.
Those prophesying our demise have been doing so for a decade, and have been wrong for a decade.

Cool you had those guys out and won. Well done.
That Hawks side on Monday was on average two years older and 68 games more experienced.
I’m more confident in our future knowing we pushed a likely 2018 finalist to a 1pt game despite having no real notable defence to speak of.

I think we’ve nailed a few picks in the last couple of drafts that will set up the nucleus of the future. You’ll never truly bottom out with a great recruiter, and we won’t do that.

 

[hawkman]

Doubtful. I don’t think either club is in a bad position.
Those prophesying our demise have been doing so for a decade, and have been wrong for a decade.

Cool you had those guys out and won. Well done.
That Hawks side on Monday was on average two years older and 68 games more experienced.
I’m more confident in our future knowing we pushed a likely 2018 finalist to a 1pt game despite having no real notable defence to speak of.

I think we’ve nailed a few picks in the last couple of drafts that will set up the nucleus of the future. You’ll never truly bottom out with a great recruiter, and we won’t do that.

That average is heavily influenced by Burgoyne who barely played, Henry hardly played either. Take them out and the difference drops by nearly a year. Games wise that difference would be 24

 

[Art Vandelay_]

That average is heavily influenced by Burgoyne who barely played, Henry hardly played either. Take them out and the difference drops by nearly a year. Games wise that difference would be 24

Taking out guys who played in the game? That’s manipulating stats just a tad too far given the context was relating to the sides that took the field on Monday.

Our best side would be in the top half for experience and age. The side on Sunday was significantly younger and more inexperienced. That’s a fact that cannot be twisted or distorted.

 

[Xtreme]

Motlop would have been the difference and Geelong would have won comfortably with him in the team.

 

[thebarry111]

Motlop would have been the difference and Geelong would have won comfortably with him in the team.

This is true. He did a great job for us Saturday night.