Scandal AFL auditing third party payments from Geelong

[ShadowCat]

They have every right to investigate these things, given the potential issues/conflicts with the Joel Selwood and Chris Scott incidents.

With that said, if anyone actually bothers to watch the 90 second clip, the AFL, sources, and Caro herself, are at pains to say that Geelong is not being accused of anything, but rather audited given these potential conflicts have confirmed the need to check that everything is above board.

My only thing here will be, is if the AFL comes back and says we're not in breach of anything serious, then will people actually stop with the conspiracy theories and accept that as fact? Given that we will have actually opened up our books and provided details of our financial dealings...that's something that 17 other clubs will not have done.

If anything significant is found, I'll be the first to say that I'm wrong about this. I would hope though if it comes back clean, that others would have the courtesy to offer the same - given the amount of years we've copped shit about hypothetical 3rd party deals/rorting the system. I guess we'll see though if tribalism and impartiality is overruled by acceptance of direct sources - something modern society seems to have a lot of trouble with.

 

[frggr]

If the AFL had their eyes over every deal that was done they’d have no reason to do audits.

That's not true.

Lots of organisations undergo 'audits' for all sorts of reasons even though things should be ship-shape.

The deal could be signed off and the 'audit' could be to ensure that all parties are abiding by the deal that was signed off (ie that all agreed 'work' for payments outside the TPP is indeed being done).

 

[Footy Smarts]

I can't wait until Steve Hocking "takes the stand" and it comes out that the whole thing is just a way to troll the insane Richmond conspiracy theorists.

 

[frggr]

Here's the detail about Third Party Player Payments from the most recent Collective Bargaining Agreement.



11. Additional Services Agreements
11.1 Interpretation

For the purposes of this clause 11 “Player” means:

(a) Player as that term is defined in clause 1.1; or

(b) where a Player has licensed the use or the right to license the use of the Player’s Image to a Player Image Rights Holder, means the Player Image Rights Holder; or

(c) Associate of a Player as that term is defined in clause 1.1 and has entered into an Additional Services Agreement; as the context dictates.

11.2 Additional Services Agreements

(a) A Player may contract with an AFL Club and/or Sponsor of an AFL Club to derive payments as a direct result of bona fide promotions/marketing by that Player in accordance with the Guidelines for Additional Services Agreements (as outlined in Schedule F) and the definition of Football Payments. Such arrangements are separate and distinct from the Standard Playing Contract which regulates the employment of a Player to play Australian Football for an AFL Club. Payments made pursuant to a marketing contract shall be in addition to and separate from payments made to the Player for performance of services as a professional footballer and shall not be taken into account in calculating Total Player Payments except as provided in
clause 11.3(c).

(b) Additional Service Agreements may be for services/uses including the following:

(i) appearances in excess of those in accordance with clause 24 for the AFL Club
or an Associate of a Club or Sponsor of the AFL Club;

(ii) employment arrangements with the AFL Club or Associates of a Club;

(iii) notwithstanding clause 26.2(h), use of Player Image either individually orinvolving six (6) Players or less for promotion of the AFL Club or Club partners, if the Club and Player agree; and

(iv) providing other bona fide additional services including but not limited to media content for the AFL Club or Club partners.

(c) Notwithstanding clause 26.2(h), a Player may receive Additional Service Agreement payment for use of the Player’s Image in Club promotional programs if the Club and Player agree, conditional upon the promotion featuring six (6) players or less, and the use being commercial and bona fide.

(d) The term of an Additional Service Agreement cannot exceed the term of a Player’s Standard Playing Contract, however the Player and the Club may agree that should the Standard Playing Contract be terminated without cause prior to the expiry of its ordinary term any remaining Additional Service Agreement entitlements will become due and payable to the Player.

11.3 Additional Services Agreement Limits

(a) The amount of total payments to Players for each AFL Club for Additional Services Agreements shall be as set out in item 2 of Schedule B.

(b) For each AFL Club, where the total of payments to Players of that AFL Club for Additional Services Agreements in the relevant year exceeds the amounts set out in item 2 of Schedule B, any excess shall, subject to clause 11.3(c), be taken into account in calculating the Total Player Payments of the AFL Club in that year. In calculating the total of payments to Players under Additional Services Agreements, the amount of any goods and services tax payable to a Player or to an Associate of a Player shall be excluded.

(c) Where the Total Player Payments to Players of an AFL Club for Additional Services Agreements exceeds or will exceed the amount set out in item 2 of Schedule B in any year, such contracts shall be referred to the AFL General Counsel. The AFL General Counsel may determine that any such excess (or part thereof) shall not be taken into account in calculating the Total Player Payments of the AFL Club in that year.

11.4 Additional Services Agreement Requirements

(a) An Additional Services Agreement must:

(i) be in writing;

(ii) represent bona fide commercially based arrangements; and

(iii) be lodged with the AFL within 28 days of the date of the signing of the contract by the parties.

(b) The Investigations Manager or the General Counsel must be satisfied that an Additional Services Agreement is bona fide and if he is not so satisfied, the payments made by the AFL Club or Sponsor of an AFL Club under the Additional Services Agreement shall be included in the Total Player Payments of the AFL Club.

(c) Where a Player or an Associate of a Player enters into a marketing contract with an AFL Club or a Sponsor of an AFL Club after the AFL Club has submitted to the AFL details of all Additional Services Agreements, the details of such contracts shall be submitted to the AFL General Counsel to be dealt with in accordance with the provisions of clause 11.3(c).

 

[Bald]

That's not true.

Lots of organisations undergo 'audits' for all sorts of reasons even though things should be ship-shape.

The deal could be signed off and the 'audit' could be to ensure that all parties are abiding by the deal that was signed off (ie that all agreed 'work' for payments outside the TPP is indeed being done).

Of course that’s what the audits could be for but ultimately audits are done to ensure everything is functioning as it should and part of that is making sure it’s all above board. Which suggests it’s not impossible for things to fall through the cracks.

Source: someone that does a lot of audits.

Again, I think it’s unlikely anything dodgy is going on, all clubs would get audited every year and it’s noteworthy because of the Morris/Scott situation, I just don’t think it’s unreasonable to be a little more open minded about these things.

 

[Ancient Tiger]

The AFL will ultimately say

 

[frggr]

Of course that’s what the audits could be for but ultimately audits are done to ensure everything is functioning as it should and part of that is making sure it’s all above board. Which suggests it’s not impossible for things to fall through the cracks.

You literally said:

If the AFL had their eyes over every deal that was done they’d have no reason to do audits.

I was just providing an example of why audits might still be necessary even if the AFL do tick off every deal (and they do tick off every deal)

 

[Strange Cat]

Of course that’s what the audits could be for but ultimately audits are done to ensure everything is functioning as it should and part of that is making sure it’s all above board. Which suggests it’s not impossible for things to fall through the cracks.

Source: someone that does a lot of audits.

Again, I think it’s unlikely anything dodgy is going on, all clubs would get audited every year and it’s noteworthy because of the Morris/Scott situation, I just don’t think it’s unreasonable to be a little more open minded about these things.

It’s just hilarious to watch any opposition posters latch on to anything conspiracy or not to vent on Geeelong while disregarding the facts .

As you said all clubs are being audited year in year out , yet as you can see opposition supporters are tripping over themselves to use this as evidence that Geelong have been cheating all these years .

It’s pathetic as a well as amusing and when the AFL gives the all clear …again… it won’t matter because that’s what they have all convinced themselves as to be the reality

Simple minded idiots

 

[hawkman]

If Geelong are admitting to Caro the AFL are looking into it, I doubt they are worried. They would most likely be denying it if they were really concerned

 

[Rich01]

I can't wait until Steve Hocking "takes the stand" and it comes out that the whole thing is just a way to troll the insane Richmond conspiracy theorists.

Wondered how long it would take a Geelong supporter to mention Richmond in this thread.

Answer: 47 minutes.

 

[frggr]

Wondered how long it would take a Geelong supporter to mention Richmond in this thread.

Answer: 47 minutes.

To be fair, some Richmond supporters are very, very deep down the rabbit hole when it comes to Geelong list management

 

[frggr]

AFL responds to bombshell reports of ‘auditing’ Cats over third-party payments

AFL responds to bombshell reports of ‘auditing’ Cats over third-party payments

www.foxsports.com.au

“The Melbourne Football Club raised questions about who Clayton Oliver spoke to and what was involved in that potential deal last year,” she said.

“The Bulldogs remain very, very angry about what went on with Bailey Smith and the club. GWS, ditto, Jeremy Cameron.
“I’m not saying Geelong have necessarily done anything wrong, but there is no doubt (rival clubs are concerned).”

So two clubs with known cultural issues and one that struggles to retain players at the best of times (and was more than happy to swipe players from other clubs) cried to AFL HQ about why a better employer was able to woo their players and this is where we've ended up.

Rough.

 

[STPer18]

AFL responds to bombshell reports of ‘auditing’ Cats over third-party payments

AFL responds to bombshell reports of ‘auditing’ Cats over third-party payments

www.foxsports.com.au

So two clubs with known cultural issues and one that struggles to retain players at the best of times (and was more than happy to swipe players from other clubs) cried to AFL HQ about why a better employer was able to woo their players and this is where we've ended up.

Rough.

Opposition supporters? Head****ed.
Opposition clubs? Head****ed.

Big bad Geelong bullying clubs into crying to the AFL - never thought I'd see the day!

 

[Strange Cat]

Opposition supporters? Head****ed.
Opposition clubs? Head****ed.

Big bad Geelong bullying clubs into crying to the AFL - never thought I'd see the day!

Long may it continue

 

[theprospector]

Wondered how long it would take a Geelong supporter to mention Richmond in this thread.

Answer: 47 minutes.

Deflect deflect deflect

 

[STPer18]

Long may it continue

Footscray and GWS crying - whatever. Collingwood probably dobbed on us too after operation bring Ollie Henry home was a huge success, but Melbourne crying just because we let young Clayton visit Stanley's farm? Sheesh. Imagine what poor Gold Coast told the AFL after we took one of their players + their best draft pick for the privilege.

 

[theprospector]

Footscray and GWS crying - whatever. Collingwood probably dobbed on us too after operation bring Ollie Henry home was a huge success, but Melbourne crying just because we let young Clayton visit Stanley's farm? Sheesh. Imagine what poor Gold Coast told the AFL after we took one of their players + their best draft pick for the privilege.

You sound nervous mate. D day is almost here

 

[craffles]

Oooohh you can taste the squirming from cats fans in here. Whatever the outcome of the audits, there’s one thing we can all agree on. Geelong are cheats and their town is a meth filled dump

 

[GreyCrow]

 

[Do_Beta_Rapport]

Just wait until they start auditing their injury list.

 

[GreyCrow]

This is about as deep a scan it will be

 

[PIEWITHSAUCE]

Given that we will have actually opened up our books and provided details of our financial dealings...that's something that 17 other clubs will not have done.

If all they do is look at the books then I'm sure everything will be schmick.

I have no idea if there are any skeletons , but if there are then the last place they'll be is in the books.

 

[The King!]

AFL should be constantly auditing and monitoring all clubs caps and third party arrangements .

 

[flamin_heck]

Wondered how long it would take a Geelong supporter to mention Richmond in this thread.

Answer: 47 minutes.

Honestly I don’t understand why Richmond supporters get so wound up about Geelong- as far as I remember the Cats never beat them in a truly meaningful game, so what’s it all about? If it went back and forth I’d understand. It would be like Hawthorn fans getting shitty at Freo

 

[Madas]

Harley Reid’s new pad