AFL meddling

[Fall Out Boy]

it's quite clear that the AFL's sole aim is to win a premiership for Sydney and if that means losing some Victorian sides in the process, then so be it.

Sydney get money on top of the salary cap because the cost of living is higher than in Melbourne, why don't Melbourne clubs get a higher salry cap that the Adelaide clubs? the cost of living in Melbourne is significantly higher than in Adelaide.

Cheers

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

it's quite clear that the AFL's sole aim is to win a premiership for Sydney and if that means losing some Victorian sides in the process, then so be it.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[Michele]

Originally posted by Bloodstained Angel
I'm not justifying anybody or anything.

I'm just having a good old laugh at the way you southerners are so quick to accuse the AFL and Sydney of some giant conspiracy to 'bring the cup to Sydney"

LOL - just look at youselves, especially you Kangaroo fans.

Who won the flag in '96 ?,99 ?

it certainly wasn't the AFL 'love child' (LOL) as you like to call us.

Again I repeat - we are a dead set average footy club with an ageing list who managed to scarmble into 7th place last season.

Any suggestion that we are somehow being 'favoured' by the AFl is, quite fankly, incredible.

cheers

BSA,

Us Southerners! Already you have made a distinction.

If you truly believe that the AFL is not assisting the Sydney Swans, you are living in fantasy land.
Yes, the AFL should offer assistance to NSW and the Sydney area because unless Sydneysiders in general, take to AFL - and in a big way, whether the team wins or loses, then the market will be lost.

And that is the expressed aim of the AFL, for footy to be truly national.

Just because North won the 1996 Premiership and Sydney, doesn't mean that the AFL didn't WANT Sydney to win.
Oakley stated that he had hoped for a Sydney win.

Too bad Oakley, too bad.

And as for Richard Colless well......... very little fish in a big pond.
He and the AFL can have the Sydney market. A partnerhip made in heaven.

Michele:

 

[Roylion]

Originally posted by Michele

As for your assertions on our paranoia, Ross the dill Oakley and his cohorts, made such a >>>>> mess of the 1996 merger, that it is highly unlikely that any North Board or any North supporter would trust the AFL as far as they could throw them.

I would suggest that it was in fact North Melbourne who made a mess of the 1996 merger, by excessively trying maximise their own position at the expense of Fitzroy. They had several opportunities to close the merger deal (with the AFL's blessing) but their dithering cost them valuable time and also caused the Nauru Insurance Corporation to appoint an administrator for Fitzroy.

 

[Michele]

Originally posted by Bloodstained Angel


zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

BSA,

In the sporting capital of the world MELBOURNE, we are awake. and unlike Sydney, Melbournians do not need inducements to follow sport. Or winners!

We are prepared to follow ANY sport, as long as a good even contest is involved.

Sydney need winners.

How long have the Swannies been in Sydney? And how many premierships have they won?
How long has a Fitzroy entity been in Brisbane? And who are the reigning premiers?

Michele

 

[Michele]

Originally posted by Bloodstained Angel


zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

BSA,

In the sporting capital of the world MELBOURNE, we are awake. and unlike Sydney, Melbournians do not need inducements to follow sport. Or winners!

We are prepared to follow ANY sport, as long as a good even contest is involved.

Sydney need winners.

How long have the Swannies been in Sydney? And how many premierships have they won?
How long has a Fitzroy entity been in Brisbane? And who are the reigning premiers?

Michele

Premiers 2002

 

[GOALden Hawk]

Originally posted by Michele


Oakley stated that he had hoped for a Sydney win.

Too bad Oakley, too bad.

Remember we had a big party for 96 GF...lots of family over. Was a pretty boring game (unless you were a North supporter) so we didn't get too excited.

However as the Roos were doing their lap of honour they showed a shot of a very glum Ross Oakley standing there, looking devastated his beloved Swans didn't win.

Got the biggest cheer from us all day! What a pure scum of the earth he was.

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

ah yes

time for yet another hoary old chestnut to come out of the "Excuses for hating Sydney" file.

Yep, sure Sydney people don't like watching sport.

All those thousands of people I see at the SCG every week must be bussed-in South Melbourne fans.

Oh and the 91,000 at the Rugby League Grand Final ? - just theatre goers are they ?

What about the 90,000-odd at the Bledisloe Cup Rugby Union Test ? - oh I see they follow Rugby so they aren't 'sports fans' ?

Or the 5000 or so at the Limited Overs Cricket at Bankstown Oval yesterday, or the 145,000 that attended Bathurst this weekend, or the healthy crowds at the NSL openers, or the full house at last months Netball GF, or the estimated 1 milliion strong crowd of specators that watch the Sydney-Hobart Yacht race every year, or the ...

Yeah sure - Sydney people just HATE watching sport don't they ?

where on earth do you get such silly ideas from ?

oh sorry - you're from Melbourne, I should have realised !

cheers

 

[Michele]

Originally posted by Roylion


I would suggest that it was in fact North Melbourne who made a mess of the 1996 merger, by excessively trying maximise their own position at the expense of Fitzroy. They had several opportunities to close the merger deal (with the AFL's blessing) but their dithering cost them valuable time and also caused the Nauru Insurance Corporation to appoint an administrator for Fitzroy.

ROYLION,

Congratulations! Enjoy the feeling as reigning Premiers.

As for you post - Ross Oakley (with a stupid grin - or was it the cat that swallowed the cream) made a comment after the Bears, Fitzroy merger that I can still remember but not verbatim. Something along the lines, "Oh that's the way the corporate world works.

The only person to come out of that farce with his integrity intact was the late Ron Casey. You may not remember - looking from a different perspective - but I DO remember the LOOK on his face, when he announced that North would not be going ahead.

No-one could question Ron Casey's integrity?

He also stated that a the AFL and the clubs would never agree to another merger, because of how badly North was duped.

He was right! Hawthorn and Melbourne tried to merge and tried to enlist support - and the rest is history.

As no other team either needed to merge or had the gumption, North, after agonising and getting feedback from their supporters of WHAT they actually wanted or would AGREE to, decided to go ahead with a merger.

The clubs already had agreed in-principle to the AFL's $6mill merger carrot deal AND they also knew what exactly the deal contained.

The clubs, led by Leon Daphne, held a meeting and merrily changed the terms and conditions because they were concerned North might be also a "force off-field".

Michele

Premiers 2002

 

[Michele]

Originally posted by Bloodstained Angel
ah yes

time for yet another hoary old chestnut to come out of the "Excuses for hating Sydney" file.

Yep, sure Sydney people don't like watching sport.

All those thousands of people I see at the SCG every week must be bussed-in South Melbourne fans.

Oh and the 91,000 at the Rugby League Grand Final ? - just theatre goers are they ?

What about the 90,000-odd at the Bledisloe Cup Rugby Union Test ? - oh I see they follow Rugby so they aren't 'sports fans' ?

Or the 5000 or so at the Limited Overs Cricket at Bankstown Oval yesterday, or the 145,000 that attended Bathurst this weekend, or the healthy crowds at the NSL openers, or the full house at last months Netball GF, or the estimated 1 milliion strong crowd of specators that watch the Sydney-Hobart Yacht race every year, or the ...

Yeah sure - Sydney people just HATE watching sport don't they ?

where on earth do you get such silly ideas from ?

oh sorry - you're from Melbourne, I should have realised !

cheers

BSA,

Don't quote me out of context. I said SYDNEY LIKE WINNERS.

I never said Sydneysiders didn't watch or didn't like sport.

There is a big difference to following a team or a sport ALL YEAR, to going to a "marquee event".

 

[Michele]

Originally posted by Bloodstained Angel
ah yes

time for yet another hoary old chestnut to come out of the "Excuses for hating Sydney" file.

Yep, sure Sydney people don't like watching sport.

All those thousands of people I see at the SCG every week must be bussed-in South Melbourne fans.

Oh and the 91,000 at the Rugby League Grand Final ? - just theatre goers are they ?

What about the 90,000-odd at the Bledisloe Cup Rugby Union Test ? - oh I see they follow Rugby so they aren't 'sports fans' ?

Or the 5000 or so at the Limited Overs Cricket at Bankstown Oval yesterday, or the 145,000 that attended Bathurst this weekend, or the healthy crowds at the NSL openers, or the full house at last months Netball GF, or the estimated 1 milliion strong crowd of specators that watch the Sydney-Hobart Yacht race every year, or the ...

Yeah sure - Sydney people just HATE watching sport don't they ?

where on earth do you get such silly ideas from ?

oh sorry - you're from Melbourne, I should have realised !

cheers

BSA,

Don't quote me out of context. I said SYDNEY LIKE WINNERS.

I never said Sydneysiders didn't watch or didn't like sport.

There is a big difference to following a team or a sport ALL YEAR in all weather conditions, to going to a "marquee event".
The Bledisoe Cup (hey Melbourne has/held the record - a non rugby state ), NRL Grand Final, Bathurst and the Sydney-Hobart Yacht race are such ANNUAL events.

Oh, sorry you're from Sydney - the home of the Olympics.

Michele

 

[Roylion]

Michele,

I certainly wasn't questioning Ron Casey's integrity. However for much of the latter stages of the merger discussions between North and Fitzroy it was Messrs Dawson and Miller who were in fact running the merger discussions. It was largely their attempts to maximise North's advantage in the merger attempt at the expense of Fitzroy that saw the merger fail.

North's absolute refusal to agree to allow more than $550,000 of the $6,000,000 merger money to be guaranteed to the Nauru Insurance Company saw the NIC appoint an administrator for the FFC, which took any real power away from the FFC board.

North also tried to renege on what had already been agreed to about the name of the merged club. From what Dyson Hore-Lacy states, Ron Casey was not involved in this.

However some North Melbourne officials' refusal to deal honestly and fairly with the Fitzroy board was one of the major (but not the only) reasons why the merger eventually failed.

 

[Michele]

Originally posted by GOALden Hawk


However as the Roos were doing their lap of honour they showed a shot of a very glum Ross Oakley standing there, looking devastated his beloved Swans didn't win.

Got the biggest cheer from us all day! What a pure scum of the earth he was.

Hell, yes! I was hoping Carey would knock him off the podium

I am unsure, but I don't think he presented the Cup or the medals!

I don't mind if someone from the AFL states that the would like so-so team to win, at least it is in the open - unlike Oakley who remained neutral on the day, but later after leaving office, said he wanted Sydney to win.

That does leave fans wondering! as to the AFLs agenda!!!

Michele

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

So not only are AFLofficials not allowed to telephone who they like, it seems they can't barrack for who they like on GF day either.

who would be an AFL Commissioner I wonder ?

 

[GOALden Hawk]

Originally posted by Michele


I don't mind if someone from the AFL states that the would like so-so team to win, at least it is in the open - unlike Oakley who remained neutral on the day, but later after leaving office, said he wanted Sydney to win.

Well really I don't think the AFL Commissioners should be stating at all who they want to win. I mean I can understand Wayne Jackson favouring a SA club if they made it, after all that's where he comes from, but to be publicly barracking and been unable to contain his glee at the Swans winning...I don't think it does much for the image or integrity of the AFL Commission.

Roylion, I agree entirely with your posts - Once Ron Casey faded into the background with merger negotiations (due to ill health) that's when the problems started.

The North-Fitzroy deal falling through was a combination of North, the other clubs and the AFL. However the Brisbane deal going ahead was purely the work of the AFL - it wasn't even on the initial agenda at the meeting to decide on the North-Fitzroy merger.

 

[Michele]

Originally posted by Roylion
Michele,

I certainly wasn't questioning Ron Casey's integrity. However for much of the latter stages of the merger discussions between North and Fitzroy it was Messrs Dawson and Miller who were in fact running the merger discussions. It was largely their attempts to maximise North's advantage in the merger attempt at the expense of Fitzroy that saw the merger fail.

North also tried to renege on what had already been agreed to about the name of the merged club. From what Dyson Hore-Lacy states, Ron Casey was not involved in this.

However some North Melbourne officials' refusal to deal honestly and fairly with the Fitzroy board was one of the major (but not the only) reasons why the merger eventually failed.

ROYLION,

You are seeing the merger from your perspective and that is understandable.

You have mentioned the name-thing a number of times in the past. I am not privvy to what Dyson Hore-Lacy said or is alledged to have said, what I do know is that some of North's cotorie groups? were not happy with the name Fitzroy-North AND that is why it was changed to North-Fitzroy.

Some were not going to support North on that issue alone.

I don't think Greg Miller had much room to move - North supporters made it very clear that is what they wanted. And North, to their credit, were fantastic in keeping the players and the supporters informed of developments. We were not mushrooms.

To me, it was a dark day in football history, but times move on.
And now Brisabane has a premiership. I hope Fitzroy supporters that didn't join North, enjoy the premeirship - because that will be that last.

Michele

 

[GOALden Hawk]

Michele....all of what Roylion has said is exactly what is said in Dyson Hore-Lacey's book Fitzroy. I recommend it to you, it's a good read and gives great insight into what went on during that time.

And if you reckon you hate Oakley now....wait until you read this! I just wish someone would produce a similar book on the Melbourne-Hawthorn merger - that would be a very interesting read indeed.

 

[Roylion]

Originally posted by Michele


ROYLION,

You are seeing the merger from your perspective and that is understandable.

You have mentioned the name-thing a number of times in the past. I am not privvy to what Dyson Hore-Lacy said or is alledged to have said, what I do know is that some of North's cotorie groups? were not happy with the name Fitzroy-North AND that is why it was changed to North-Fitzroy.

Some were not going to support North on that issue alone.

I don't think Greg Miller had much room to move - North supporters made it very clear that is what they wanted. And North, to their credit, were fantastic in keeping the players and the supporters informed of developments. We were not mushrooms.
Michele

In fact the original heads of agreement signed on May 11th 1996 between the representatives of Fitzroy and North Melbourne stipulated that the club was to be called the "Fitzroy-North Melbourne Kangaroos", with a jumper to be designed incorporating the North Melbourne and Fitzroy colours (blue, white, red/maroon and gold. The first chairman was to be a North Melbourne director, the home ground was to be Arden Street, and the captain and coach was going to be Wayne Carey and Denis Pagan.

And the coterie groups at North still weren't happy??? Geez, what about the Fitzroy people? North were getting a very generous deal in what was supposed to be an 'equal' merger.

After the original agreement was signed North Melbourne did the following:

- refused to pay Nauru $750,000 plus an extra $250,000 over the next three years as part of a settlement. This was to be paid out of the $6,000,000 merger money

- refused to pay a variation of the above deal that was more favorable.

- tried to reduce the number of Fitzroy directors on the board of the merged club from eight (as had previously been agreed) to four, while keeping eight North directors.

- tried to re-negotiate the name of the club as 'North Melbourne-Fitzroy Kangaroos'. Eventually it was re-negotiated to North Fitzroy Kangaroos. However that wasn't done until June 25th 1996.

- refused to go-ahead with the merger unless 54 players could be chosen from the combined lists of Fitzroy and North. This of course was always going to be a bone of contention with the other clubs. Fitzroy was even told this was a condition of the merger.

After the last "demand" Fitzroy then contacted Brisbane about what their offer for a merger was, as it appeared that North weren't being upfront in the merger.

The administrator was appointed by Nauru to Fitzroy on June 28th and the rest, as they say, is history.

As such North Melbourne has to take a large share of the blame, for the merger failing. Had they been more honorable and upfront with the Fitzroy board and not disputed terms of the agreement signed on May 11th, the merger would most likely have gone through.

 

[DarkRider]

Originally posted by TheMase


........and I was not alive when South Melbourne were around.

I know just as much about footy as anyone on here, and sometimes more than some.

So please dont generalise.

( I am not having a shot at you, just purely making a statement!)

If you were not born when South were around, you can hardly know as much about footy as anyone on here. Besides, you are generalising.

(Not having a shot, just making a statement.)

 

[NYMets]

I live in Sydney..love footy
Michele et al...you don't know how right you are!!


Is it true what a Roo friend told me that back then at the GF the AFL went around giving red caps to everyone who wasn't wearing blue & white?

 

[Michele]

Originally posted by Roylion
.........

As such North Melbourne has to take a large share of the blame, for the merger failing. Had they been more honorable and upfront with the Fitzroy board and not disputed terms of the agreement signed on May 11th, the merger would most likely have gone through.

Roylion,

I am not sure what you would like me to say!

North also had to listen to THEIR supporters. In referring to 'groups', I was ONLY referring to the proposed NAME of the new club and it was the the name that caused some problems.

Would you as a Fitzroy supporter, have preferred the merger
between North and Fitzroy to go ahead?
Or are you happy that although "your team" is Brisbane-based, you have managed to have the old Fitzroy jumper and close-enough to the original theme song?

The real villian in this farce was the AFL and yet you fail to mention them and try apportion all the blame to North or its administrators.

I hope you as a Royboy are enjoying the spoils of success.

Michele

 

[Roylion]

Originally posted by Michele


Roylion,

I am not sure what you would like me to say!

North also had to listen to THEIR supporters. In referring to 'groups', I was ONLY referring to the proposed NAME of the new club and it was the the name that caused some problems.

Would you as a Fitzroy supporter, have preferred the merger
between North and Fitzroy to go ahead?
Or are you happy that although "your team" is Brisbane-based, you have managed to have the old Fitzroy jumper and close-enough to the original theme song?

The real villian in this farce was the AFL and yet you fail to mention them and try apportion all the blame to North or its administrators.

I hope you as a Royboy are enjoying the spoils of success.

Michele

All I'm really commenting on is your original statement which was

As for your assertions on our paranoia, Ross the dill Oakley and his cohorts, made such a mess of the 1996 merger, that it is highly unlikely that any North Board or any North supporter would trust the AFL as far as they could throw them.

I disputed this and commented that in fact it was certain members of the North board who were largely responsible for "the mess of the 1996 merger". I also wanted to make the point that while the general public likes to blame the AFL totally for duplicity and underhandedness in the 1996 Fitzroy-North merger, certain sections of the North Melbourne board were not entirely innocent of these traits either. The AFL's role, particularly that of Graeme Samuel, left a lot to be desired as well.

I would have been happy as a Fitzroy member for the North-Fitzroy merger to have gone through, provided it was an equal merger. In the end Brisbane probably gave us a better deal than North was ever going to, so naturally I am very happy following the Brisbane Lions.

What exactly was wrong with the name "Fitzroy-North Melbourne Kangaroos" anyway?

Also I didn't apportion all the blame to North or its administrators. I did say that their refusal to deal honestly with the Fitzroy board cost them valuable time and they could have closed off on the merger much earlier than July 4th, had they been upfront and kept to the agreement signed on May 11th. I also stated that this was one of the major (but not the only) reasons why the North-Fitzroy merger failed. Of course the AFL played an underhanded role as well. However North contributed significantly to their own failure in the merger and to a certain extent to solely blame the AFL commission and to say they duped North is not totally accurate.

Thanks for your well-wishes. Yes I am enjoying the glow of Brisbane's premiership.

 

[Rooboy 96]

I think some blame can be put at the feet of Leon Daphne... who didn't want anymore SuperPowers in the AFL...

 

[MarkT]

Originally posted by Bloodstained Angel

The AFL is not assisting Sydney in any way shape or form, whatever was discussed in that call WENT ABSOLUTELY NOWHERE

Like I said - your paranioa would be amusing if it wasn't so pathetic.

The AFL has never not supported Sydney.
From South's forced move to money when they went broke (again) which was never offered before they moved to Alan Schwab to rules designed to get Paul Roos etc.

It is clearly AFL agenda to make Sydney successful. More than anything I just wish they would be open about agendas so they can be debated fairly.

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

Sydney has recieved no more and no less assistance than that which has been handed out to many other clubs from time to time ever since the AFL Commission was first established in 1986.

To single out Sydney in the manner which alot of people here have done is quite simply WRONG and whats more it is GROSSLY HYPOCRITICAL.

FACT : THere are only two clubs in the netire history of the VFL/AFL that have never asked for financial or some other form of assistance from the governing body.

One club is Carlton , the other club is Essendon.

All the rest of you - take a number and wait in line.

cheers