List Mgmt. Aisho Going Elsewhere

[SgtFloydPepper]

Agree with all that.

I have said seperately that I see things in Anderson that I prefer from our list build to that of Aish. Anderson has genuine speed and polish. He can also push forward and hurt as well but he just hasnt shown enough of it albeit hasnt really had chance to do it in the seniors. His Box Hill form been up and down which is a worry to.

Re Aish value I think think he is worthy of a selection comparable to what you gave up. Unfortunately you never quite get that but the Lions should get something very ecent and if Lethal is at the least posturing to get the AFL to that table then he will garner their empathy in any mediation talks. Well played!

I think that is the general crux of what Lethal is doing.

As I said, keep your paws off Anderson.....

 

[ottoman]

You mean how you're own club did similar tactics last season??

Explain to me how its any different?

Big difference. We demanded fair compensation. We didn't say we wouldn't trade. Also the player was contracted. Come on Sgt surely you know there is a big difference.
Biggest difference. We traded

 

[SgtFloydPepper]

Big difference. We demanded fair compensation. We didn't say we wouldn't trade. Also the player was contracted. Come on Sgt surely you know there is a big difference.
Biggest difference. We traded

You mean how you set a hard deadline that if the trade wasn't sorted, then no trade would happen.....we just didn't make a deadline....we didn't let it get that far

 

[DWil6]

I guess ultimately, you have to imagine what Brisbane will achieve by taking their stance. As a new player coming in, which would be the only type of player they could be challenging given their trading of older players that want to leave, the message you would be getting is 'don't try and leave and pick a destination as we won't accommodate your choice of club'. That's the only message I'm getting. It's not a message that the other 17 clubs seem to invoke and I don't see it being effective in any way. I think it would ultimately just make a young player more reluctant to want to go there in the first place. It just comes across as amateur psychology. Definitely detrimental in the short term, potentially detrimental in the long term.


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[SgtFloydPepper]

I guess ultimately, you have to imagine what Brisbane will achieve by taking their stance. As a new player coming in, which would be the only type of player they could be challenging given their trading of older players that want to leave, the message you would be getting is 'don't try and leave and pick a destination as we won't accommodate your choice of club'. That's the only message I'm getting. It's not a message that the other 17 clubs seem to invoke and I don't see it being effective in any way. I think it would ultimately just make a young player more reluctant to want to go there in the first place. It just comes across as amateur psychology.


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This isn't a systematic targeting of future draft picks. Its a stand against a system that allows these guys to return home on the cheap after 2 seasons. Yeah, we want adequate compensation, but I suspect you'll find we want changes to contracts of new draftees etc, possibly protected trade values etc on top quality talent.

 

[76woodenspooners]

I've also said this as well. It's grandstanding to highlight several issues existential to the club that we would prefer to be addressed sooner rather than later.

That's cool.

In case you hadn't noticed, us Collingwood folks enjoy a bit of attention. We're a club built on rivalries. We do get a bit vocal when others have a crack at us, but prefer it so much more to being ignored

As for a trade, I'd like your 2016 1st rounder and Oxley. I'm assuming you'll want to give up 2 end rounders from your various trades.

I'd prefer to leave the valuations to those who know more about this stuff than I do!

Suffice to say, that any trade should be done in the spirit of improving Collingwood. AND if it can also improve the other trading partner(s) then that's a good thing. It's in Collingwood's best interests to have good trading relationships with other clubs.

Somewhere in between (since we did you a doozy in Crisp my suggestion would be greatly appreciated )

A couple things on Crispy ...

Firstly, I think it's silly the way folks assess a player after he left their club. Supporters of all clubs do it. Crisp at Collingwood 2015 is not how Crisp would have been at Brisbane 2015. He got third in our best and fairest, but the same player may have struggled to get a game at Brisbane in 2015. There are just too many variables - different team environment, different chemistry, different gameplan, different role, different coach(es), different weather, different home environment, different social life, etc, etc. Things are very different.

Secondly, Buckley did say mid-season this year that the Beams deal would not have gotten done if we didn't get Crisp. So no need to feel that you paid overs for Beams. Has (+ Beams - pick 25 - pick 4 - Crisp) improved Brisbane? I'd reckon so? Has (- Beams + DeGoey + Greenwood + Crisp) improved Collingwood? TBH, it'd be a line ball for 2015, but for 2016 and beyond then I reckon it will have. It was a win:win trade.

 

[DWil6]

This isn't a systematic targeting of future draft picks. Its a stand against a system that allows these guys to return home on the cheap after 2 seasons. Yeah, we want adequate compensation, but I suspect you'll find we want changes to contracts of new draftees etc, possibly protected trade values etc on top quality talent.

And this is the best way to achieve those goals? Surely not. Wouldn't obliging the trades that are being requested by players and then taking these issues to the AFL be a better option? It can only put the club offside with the AFL which surely wouldn't assist negotiations on any contractual changes.


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[obleex]

This isn't a systematic targeting of future draft picks. Its a stand against a system that allows these guys to return home on the cheap after 2 seasons. Yeah, we want adequate compensation, but I suspect you'll find we want changes to contracts of new draftees etc, possibly protected trade values etc on top quality talent.

Try providing an environment that encourages kids to stay (one that doesn't involve your crazy clown of a coach for a start) maybe?

 

[76woodenspooners]

Big difference. We demanded fair compensation. We didn't say we wouldn't trade. Also the player was contracted. Come on Sgt surely you know there is a big difference.
Biggest difference. We traded

Yes we did, in the end, towards the end of trade period, after much posturing (remember the email Pert sent to members)

Let's judge Brisbane at the end of trade period (when we will probably have gotten our man, and Brisbane will have probably gotten fair compensation)

 

[NT.Thunder]

This isn't a systematic targeting of future draft picks. Its a stand against a system that allows these guys to return home on the cheap after 2 seasons. Yeah, we want adequate compensation, but I suspect you'll find we want changes to contracts of new draftees etc, possibly protected trade values etc on top quality talent.

Not sure what you mean here, possibly perceived talent? until a guy performs at AFL level, being drafted at #1 or #50 means nothing. That being the case we should be able to ask for #10 for Freeman and #19 for Ben Kennedy.

 

[SgtFloydPepper]

And this is the best way to achieve those goals? Surely not. Wouldn't obliging the trades that are being requested by players and then taking these issues to the AFL be a better option? It can only put the club offside with the AFL which surely wouldn't assist negotiations on any contractual changes.


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OK. so after this trade period - we'll have 2 first round draft picks on our last. Funny how those that come in the second and so on don't seem to have such an issue sticking around..... You actually have noted the issue as it is indirectly affecting your club getting a very good player. In fact, had we not highlighted, done a bit of grandstanding, wheeled lethal out to be a bit controversial, who knows what would have happened in regards to the trade. The AFL haven't really done anything. GC/GWS are going to be similarly pillaged over the next few seasons, but they have enough top end talent to cover (augmented drafts etc). It's only coming to a head now that we've got an administration that is actually sticking up for us.

 

[BPikkers]

This isn't a systematic targeting of future draft picks. Its a stand against a system that allows these guys to return home on the cheap after 2 seasons. Yeah, we want adequate compensation, but I suspect you'll find we want changes to contracts of new draftees etc, possibly protected trade values etc on top quality talent.

It is targeting future picks. Leigh was saying that he expects 4 years service.

 

[ottoman]

Yes we did, in the end, towards the end of trade period, after much posturing (remember the email Pert sent to members)

Let's judge Brisbane at the end of trade period (when we will probably have gotten our man, and Brisbane will have probably gotten fair compensation)

Your making too much sense 76.
I can't argue with logic and it pisses me off.

 

[SgtFloydPepper]

Not sure what you mean here, possibly perceived talent? until a guy performs at AFL level, being drafted at #1 or #50 means nothing. That being the case we should be able to ask for #10 for Freeman and #19 for Ben Kennedy.

Realistically, no one really knows how Freeman's progressed, due to injuries....

I do get your assertion, but let's be real here. How many failures are there now, drafting has become incredibly scientific and inside that first round....success rates have climbed dramatically. See very few draft busts these days as opposed to days gone by.

 

[Apex36]

With Dayne nominating us and only us, it actually gave you an insight into what we as a club have been through multiple times (more prevalently in recent years).....particularly with 1st round draft picks. You're reasoning as to what Dayne should have done, further emphasises the point I was making about Aish. You at least had the benefit of Dayne being contracted, having played an integral role in a premiership, winning a best and fairest, 6 seasons of service etc. A general contribution to your club. Realistically, has Aish done any of that (albeit I didn't expect us to win the league over the past 2 seasons mind).

I don't disagree with your sentiment, if the kid doesn't want to be there - that's fine, but at least do the right thing by the club, give them as many options as they can to get you to your city of choice. Realistically, if as reported, James wants to make a name for himself outside of Adelaide, again that's fair enough. By nominating Collingwood, he severely hamstrung the club in it's bargaining power. You could say the club learnt from the harsh lessons of the 'go home 5' and how they went about things. It seems to us (lions fans) that he seemed to think that using the blueprint that they did would get him his desired result. As a club, we've seen it as an opportunity to draw a line in the sand, and stop the thoughts the these first round players can get exactly what they want without looking after a club that has made a big investment in them.

However, I do think that it is a fair bit of posturing on the behalf of the Lions (this includes asking for the PP), not only to highlight the issues we have with retaining our talent, but some of the other issues within the club (training facilities etc). Lethal's position as well (to me at least), is posturing in order to get better compensation (particularly if as we all seemingly expect) it goes to mediation with the AFL. In our mind, Aish hasn't really regressed (i.e. he more than justified his pick 7 in season one, had a second season whereby he started poorly, injuries and you could argue desire affected the latter half of his season).

With Redden, he's been particularly up front with the club. He's given great service during his time at the club, but seems to think that the grass is greener, and needs a change. He didn't attend the B&F (and given how that seems to be a pre-cursor to these sorts of things these days) so we just have to assume he's gone now, although things have been fairly quiet on that front since his announcement, for all we know Craig and Mel have worked some magic already.

Hands off Anderson.....he isn't the worst replacement we could get for Aish.......

Do you think your club would accept Anderson in a 3 way trade for Aish?

 

[SgtFloydPepper]

It is targeting future picks. Leigh was saying that he expects 4 years service.

That's Lee's opinion, I think 3 is enough but I can see his sentiment

 

[SgtFloydPepper]

Do you think your club would accept Anderson in a 3 way trade for Aish?

Depends what comes with Anderson. If we were directly dealing with the Hawks, Anderson and a 3rd for Aish would be equitable to me.

 

[76woodenspooners]

OK. Scenario.

If you had the opportunity to stay in a city, you're an elite AFL footballer, but you're hardly recognised. It isn't an AFL stronghold, in fact, its a distant 3rd or 4th....

Then you were offered an opportunity to go to the mecca of your chosen sport, to take in all the hype that's involved around your chosen sport.

Which would you do as a 19/20yo??

As an AFL supporter who lives in Sydney ...

... I don't see that issue at the Lions being too different to what the Swans have to deal with?

And the Swans seem to do alright, yeah?

 

[SgtFloydPepper]

As an AFL supporter who lives in Sydney ...

... I don't see that issue at the Lions being too different to what the Swans have to deal with?

And the Swans seem to do alright, yeah?

Outside of Buddy, who have Sydney attracted that was really top shelf. JPK developed into the footballer he is predominantly at Sydney. What Sydney have done is hold onto their talent, through the canny use of COLA. Brisbane don't have such a luxury (only frontier club that doesn't have one )

 

[Subprime]

See Brisbane are apparently ok with trading in 2013 pick 36 Jarrad Jansen from Geelong...

Jarrad Jansen (Geelong)
Where's he going?The Brisbane Lions are the big-bodied midfielder's club of choice as he seeks senior opportunities. The Lions have tracked his progress all year and are the only suitor that has come forward.

How will he get there? Jansen is out of contract so the ball is in the Lions' court. He is also yet to play a senior game and was recruited with pick No.36 in 2013, so the Cats aren't in a position to be demanding. It is possible late in the period he could move for a pick upgrade once both clubs bring in other selections, or a third-round pick.
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-10-...-whos-going-where-and-how-will-they-get-there


Ironing?

 

[Kilmo]

Outside of Buddy, who have Sydney attracted that was really top shelf. JPK developed into the footballer he is predominantly at Sydney. What Sydney have done is hold onto their talent, through the canny use of COLA. Brisbane don't have such a luxury (only frontier club that doesn't have one )

Kurt

 

[nahnah]

Could go down like this,
Swann: We won't trade him
Hine: ok
Swann: so what are you offering?

 

[SgtFloydPepper]

See Brisbane are apparently ok with trading in 2013 pick 36 Jarrad Jansen from Geelong...

Jarrad Jansen (Geelong)
Where's he going?The Brisbane Lions are the big-bodied midfielder's club of choice as he seeks senior opportunities. The Lions have tracked his progress all year and are the only suitor that has come forward.

How will he get there? Jansen is out of contract so the ball is in the Lions' court. He is also yet to play a senior game and was recruited with pick No.36 in 2013, so the Cats aren't in a position to be demanding. It is possible late in the period he could move for a pick upgrade once both clubs bring in other selections, or a third-round pick.
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-10-...-whos-going-where-and-how-will-they-get-there


Ironing?

He will leave such a hole on the Geelong list, I don't even think that the gaining of Dangerfield will make up for it. He played all of how many senior games for Geelong as a late second round draft pick. Can't believe Geelong aren't up in arms about such a stellar player leaving.........

 

[SgtFloydPepper]

Kurt

He's shit though

 

[ottoman]

He will leave such a hole on the Geelong list, I don't even think that the gaining of Dangerfield will make up for it. He played all of how many senior games for Geelong as a late second round draft pick. Can't believe Geelong aren't up in arms about such a stellar player leaving.........

So certain players can leave after 2 years and others can't. Do you just keep changing the goalposts to try to suit your argument