Mega Thread All things Tony Abbott

[Gough]

Abbott has no guiding political ideology beyond keeping himself in the fashion to which he has become accustomed.

(That includes maintaining social mores as he prefers them).

He's no actual classical Liberal.

That's going to be extremely problematic for the Libs going forward, you've got all these young right wingers coming through who think that Tony Abbott is the classical Liberal and who are going to make winning elections very difficult for the party going forward.

 

[MaddAdam]

That's going to be extremely problematic for the Libs going forward, you've got all these young right wingers coming through who think that Tony Abbott is the classical Liberal and who are going to make winning elections very difficult for the party going forward.

Yeah, the Libs are already splitting, it just isn't official yet.

You can see it dramatically in Victoria where the religious right types have branch stacked their way to control.

 

[Number37]

People who fail to understand the role of government share your view.

Private enterprise is filled with ordinary people who wrap processes and procedures around activities to achieve organisational goals. So to does government.

Both however regularly fail, sometimes the failings are minor and sometimes the failings are too big to ignore.

When a private enterprise fails, we have regulatory bodies (most of the government lead) who step in and complete reviews. From these reviews we have findings, recommendations and often penalties.

Where a government organisation fails, who comes in to review? Themselves? I bet you'd be the first person to waive their arms when you hear self-regulated industries!

This separation between operating and governing is as important as the separation of church and state, the judicial arm of government and the legislative government etc etc

Out of interest, do you support a political party that's foundations are union? With one of the most high profile unions, coming out publicly, declaring on the steps of court that they break the law. This is a beautiful example of the dangers of governments, where criminals have infiltrated and control political parties for their own gain. This is why the role of government needs to be limited.

WTF.
Unions + Criminal union members + ALP union heavy = bad govt that needs to be limited.

How about...
Banks + criminal banking members + LNP bank heavy = bad govt that needs to be limited.

That is just dumb logic.


For the record...
I support the rights of workers to not be screwed over in pay & conditions.
If you think it is a terrible thing that people (Unions) advocate for workers then your opinion is worthless.

 

[Power Raid]

So who would do the most damage, the sum total of criminal unions, or the mass of local & international corporates?

Well that depends on a number of factors

- what % is govt operated vs private ( note unions are private)
- how well does the govt govern which includes the legislative arm and judicial

Cops and judges take bribes in certain jurisdictions which undermines govt. further govt doesn’t act sometimes due to votes again undermining their own laws.

Fortunately Australia has a low corruption rate and has sign many trade and property right treaties meaning corrupt unions and powerful corrupt lobby groups have been cut at the knees. The US could learn a thing or two from Oz.

 

[Power Raid]

WTF.
Unions + Criminal union members + ALP union heavy = bad govt that needs to be limited.

How about...
Banks + criminal banking members + LNP bank heavy = bad govt that needs to be limited.

That is just dumb logic.


For the record...
I support the rights of workers to not be screwed over in pay & conditions.
If you think it is a terrible thing that people (Unions) advocate for workers then your opinion is worthless.

Giggle. You might as well yelled “scabs”.

FTR family members were heavies for the painters and dockers and the BLF. Beating people up in front of their families, blackmailing, racketeering and other horrific crimes doesn’t quite marry the important role unions have to play.

And no, one’s wrongs doesn’t justify another’s. That’s why govt should be above corrupt thugs and corrupt banks. To do that, they should govern and not operate, Co-operate or be infiltrated by criminal elements.

 

[Number37]

Giggle. You might as well yelled “scabs”.

FTR family members were heavies for the painters and dockers and the BLF. Beating people up in front of their families, blackmailing, racketeering and other horrific crimes doesn’t quite marry the important role unions have to play.

And no, one’s wrongs doesn’t justify another’s. That’s why govt should be above corrupt thugs and corrupt banks. To do that, they should govern and not operate, Co-operate or be infiltrated by criminal elements.

Yes, that doesn't make all unions and unionists bad.

It is an LNP tactic to paint unions as some sort of evil. WTF is evil about fighting for workers rights?

 

[JackOutback]

How quickly people forget; everything you take for granted, like a 38-hour week, weekends, holidays, sick leave, penalty rates etc were hard fought and won by unions. If corporations had their way, you'd barely be above the level of indentured slave.

 

[madmug]

How quickly people forget; everything you take for granted, like a 38-hour week, weekends, holidays, sick leave, penalty rates etc were hard fought and won by unions. If corporations had their way, you'd barely be above the level of indentured slave.

Wait until the new waves of disruptive technologies start to bite.

Such changes, like with the steam engine & all the other changes of the last century, have had & will accentuate huge social/economic effects.

The difference now is the pervasive & selfish behaviour of the modern corporate sector.

Will Government plan for those effects? They have done SFA to plan for anything so far.

Population change & growth, transport, services etc, all ad hoc, bumbling through stuff.

All we get from Politicians are sound bites. SFA else.

 

[bombersfan4000]

How quickly people forget; everything you take for granted, like a 38-hour week, weekends, holidays, sick leave, penalty rates etc were hard fought and won by unions. If corporations had their way, you'd barely be above the level of indentured slave.

Only to be screw over by Gillard and Rudd!With the fair work act!

 

[sherb]

Yes, that doesn't make all unions and unionists bad.

It is an LNP tactic to paint unions as some sort of evil. WTF is evil about fighting for workers rights?

Exactly right.

 

[madmug]

Yes, that doesn't make all unions and unionists bad.

It is an LNP tactic to paint unions as some sort of evil. WTF is evil about fighting for workers rights?

Well of course they're going to highlight the worst cases they can find & extrapolate that to insinuate all unions are suspect.

Its lazy dog whistle politics.

Its a pity cleaning out the few bad eggs gets used by a political party hell bent on cruelling all unions & people who stand up to the the rights political & corporate thugs.

Still nothing said about the corrupt finance sector.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Only to be screw over by Gillard and Rudd!With the fair work act!

Because Work Choices was so much better you mean?

 

[bombersfan4000]

Because Work Choices was so much better you mean?

Form choices were a joke and is what had Howard not elected again! Rudd parades around claiming to have fixed work choices with fair work and re in listing the old system but he never fixed up the casual labour hire agreement! Hence the casual work force and next to zero wage growth we see today

 

[Father Jack]

Well of course they're going to highlight the worst cases they can find & extrapolate that to insinuate all unions are suspect.

Its lazy dog whistle politics.

Its a pity cleaning out the few bad eggs gets used by a political party hell bent on cruelling all unions & people who stand up to the the rights political & corporate thugs.

Still nothing said about the corrupt finance sector.

and yet only a couple of weeks ago Scott Morrison was on Insiders telling us all how unfortunate it was that the left use outliers and extremes to make something look worse than it is. This was right after he'd been banging on about how all the 'nonnas' were going to lose their homes under Labor's new negative gearing changes because they were apparently the sole beneficiaries of the current system

 

[RupieDupie]

Is it a bit weird when Abbott starts rambling on about what he’d do if he were Prime Minister?

He should start a Twitter account, I’d imagine if he did he would probably proclaim;

“Not everyone agreed with me but that’s the beauty of a democracy like ours – everyone should have their say and be taken seriously”

 

[JoondalupJ]

Form choices were a joke and is what had Howard not elected again! Rudd parades around claiming to have fixed work choices with fair work and re in listing the old system but he never fixed up the casual labour hire agreement! Hence the casual work force and next to zero wage growth we see today

Well said, Rudd did NOT fix fair work, "workchoices" in fact having experienced it , it was a paper tiger that all elements could walk through and win a case if they had the where with all. Even in safety issues , very very hard to get a directive from a VP on the bench, and that was well into Rudd's stuff up.

Casual employment is a tragic situation in this country and it is and has and does hoodwink the public, because the counting of the thousands of jobs being created blurted out all the time by Scott Morrison as some massive achievement is simply a lie.

To be called a casual permanent worker, in many thousands of cases its looked upon as a permanent position, well yes, but it doesn't earn enough to buy a home or a car , or stuff me a refrigerator even.

And you can get 5 hours one week and 40 the next then none for a week.

No guarantees, and Labor won't help any better than the mob there now.

But we all have to bite the bullet and vote either Labor or Liberal, no more independents or Greens , because they create the terrible situation whereby, a major party gets into Government, but cannot govern, it creates bulldust policy argument, sometimes with one person controlling the outcome.

I reckon we might actually get decent government if one of the majors had real governing power, remember we have the GG if someone like Johnny boy wanted to bring in work choices again. But at least they could have a go.

And the senate may be a mixture of debate not like the absolute idiocy of Hanson young and Leyonhjelm,
both waiste's of time.

 

[AM]

Termite Tony’s maaaate, alt right warrior and general flog ‘Madley’ in the firing line and taking the excuse route he wouldn’t allow anyone else. Low life!

 

[NSWCROW]

 

[Gough]

Abbott, like Rudd should be expelled from the party. They've both put their own interests ahead of the party every single time.

 

[Pessimistic]

Rudd didn’t have rampant policy disunity though.

I love how the rabid press goes after every chink of disagreement in th left, but barracks for any lib who will embarrass ol Malcolm with enthusiasm

And here is a program to resolve ‘our greatest emergency’ and they are brawling like drunks

 

[Bradesmaen]

Rudd didn’t have rampant policy disunity though.

I love how the rabid press goes after every chink of disagreement in th left, but barracks for any lib who will embarrass ol Malcolm with enthusiasm

And here is a program to resolve ‘our greatest emergency’ and they are brawling like drunks

You know why, Malcolm is a progressive Liberal..

 

[Generalissimo]

Rudd didn’t have rampant policy disunity though.

I love how the rabid press goes after every chink of disagreement in th left, but barracks for any lib who will embarrass ol Malcolm with enthusiasm

And here is a program to resolve ‘our greatest emergency’ and they are brawling like drunks

The only good thing about this is that the constant barrage of negative media coverage, whether real or fictitious, means that Labor stay cohesive and orderly. They have to, or they'd very quickly perish.

Nobody in the media ever keeps the Liberals on their toes, and they've turned into a directionless, malign, undisciplined rabble.

Just look at the recent beatup about leadership dissension in the Labor party. It was 100% complete fiction, but it did highlight that there's two blokes who could do a decent job as PM whereas there's nobody in the Coalition with an ounce of integrity or talent.

 

[Dry Rot]

Just looked at the last page of this, and yet another Politics thread badly derailed and off topic...

Back on topic, did anyone else see Abbott on 7.30 tonight?

Dang, he's a good Opposition Leader, except of course, he's part of the govt.

 

[Gough]

Just looked at the last page of this, and yet another Politics thread badly derailed and off topic...

Back on topic, did anyone else see Abbott on 7.30 tonight?

Dang, he's a good Opposition Leader, except of course, he's part of the govt.

I thought he was a joke, arguing against his own government's policy that he'd implemented as PM. The only good thing about it now is he's now only destabilising his own party, not the whole country.

 

[Dry Rot]

I thought he was a joke, arguing against his own government's policy that he'd implemented as PM. The only good thing about it now is he's now only destabilising his own party, not the whole country.

And that's a bloody good thing. This govt is utter scum.