Another US shooting - Newtown, Connecticut

[sherb]

Basically, it is their country and their democracy. It the majority don't want tighter gun control then they reap what they sow - as unfortunate as that is for some poor people.

That's pretty much it.

If the majority want the largely unfettered right to own instruments that are designed for killing (and rapid killing at that), they have to wear the consequences.

But of course they will continue to ask "why did this happen?" as the carnage occurs, over and over and over again.

It's madness. But it's their madness and they are welcome to it.

 

[Monniehawk]

Good to see how the principals and teachers en masse in the territory of New England (and other states) have been responding the last few weeks....asking for and receiving gun tuition and planning to carry concealed weapons in class so as to protect themselves and the kids "in case".

Something for all the naysayers in these topics to ponder and learn from. Fight fire with fire, you do not surrender to violence and fear but stand up to it, protect yourself from the reality of the world/life which is at heart all conflict and endangerment.

What arrant nonsense!!
We made our country safer by removing guns, not piling more into the social environment!!

By arming yourself, you are surrendering to fear.
Taking up a weapon is the ultimate expression of fear; else, why take up a gun?
Then, when you have a gun, everyone around you feels less secure. So they get a gun. With everyone armed and twitchy, no one is safe!
The bigger the gun the smaller the ...

The figures quoted previously on this thread confirm the blindingly obvious; that the U.S. is a dangerous place to live. It has 89 guns per 100 people. And it is still the most unsafe of the developed nations! So your theory on guns providing security is in absolute tatters.
Please counter with relevant figures rather than hyperbole or that dishonest graph from earlier on.

As far as reality is concerned, we create our own realities. Oz is a safer country post gun laws. That is now our reality. The U.S. built their culture around a myth of the wild west and an article in the constitution written for a time 200 years ago. They now live in abject fear of each other.
Their created reality.

 

[Moo]

Good to see how the principals and teachers en masse in the territory of New England (and other states) have been responding the last few weeks....asking for and receiving gun tuition and planning to carry concealed weapons in class so as to protect themselves and the kids "in case".

Something for all the naysayers in these topics to ponder and learn from. Fight fire with fire, you do not surrender to violence and fear but stand up to it, protect yourself from the reality of the world/life which is at heart all conflict and endangerment.

So if the teachers start shooting kids - ? We arm the kids

 

[romeoh]

So if the teachers start shooting kids - ? We arm the kids

Yep and then we can get the babes in their cots to start on assault weapons -the earlier, the better. Learn to shoot before you can walk I reckon.

 

[Exe Gesis]

Lol at the reaction to that. Typical

 

[Catfish Alley]

So if the teachers start shooting kids - ? We arm the kids

Who is 'we'? Unless you are an American citizen you have no say?

 

[Hard_to_Beat]

Lol at the reaction to that. Typical

What else do you expect from such limited overemotional reasoning?

 

[Exe Gesis]

What else do you expect from such limited overemotional reasoning?

Knew it would come. Funny stuff.

Also, typical that they think the way THEY perceive things is right and how the rest of the world should follow, they should change laws, constitution, culture to what THEY think -- ie, "the teachers are wrong, we're right".

 

[Hard_to_Beat]

Knew it would come. Funny stuff.

Also, typical that they think the way THEY perceive things is right and how the rest of the world should follow, they should change laws, constitution, culture to what THEY think -- ie, "the teachers are wrong, we're right".

Thesis, antithesis and synthesis.

Then tea and biscuits.

 

[mantis]

For goodness sake, get a room you two.

 

[Monniehawk]

Lol at the reaction to that. Typical

Typical.
And logical, reasoned and downright intelligent!
Which is decisively rebutted(?) with.....

Knew it would come. Funny stuff.
Also, typical that they think the way THEY perceive things is right and how the rest of the world should follow, they should change laws, constitution, culture to what THEY think -- ie, "the teachers are wrong, we're right".

...which is such a cogent set of counter-arguments that we should withdraw in shame?!!
Really, your comment about your opponents is no argument at all. It just comes across like the spoilt brat devoid of reason, standing hands on hips with a "So, there!" defiance.

BTW, GG and H2B, this is a forum where everyone pushes their opinions. We aren't 'imposing' them because we can't; we are just voicing them. Like you. People will obviously decide for themselves and each other collectively, but we are free to comment on it. Make up your mind about freedoms!
Laws, culture, constitutions are always in a state of flux - and change precisely because people express their opinions.
If you are genuine about 'freedom', let the people decide in a fair poll.
You will still have the right to air your opinion if it goes against your wishes.
So will we.

 

[Moo]

Who is 'we'? Unless you are an American citizen you have no say?

I'm a good guy - the NRA brought me into it.

 

[Hard_to_Beat]

http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2012/07/anti-gun-senator-shoots-intruder-2-2433594.html

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2012/07/anti-gun-senator-shoots-intruder-2-2433594.html

That's from July and he was charged wasn't he?

Did it say what sort of gun he used? Semi-automatic was it? Did he go on to kill the neighbours as well?

I hate the fact that because discrepancies exist, no compromise on gun control is allowed, even when it comes to the really heavy unnecessary stuff.

 

[Exe Gesis]

forum where everyone pushes their opinions. We aren't 'imposing' them because we can't; we are just voicing them.

I don't think so. Read back over the first half of this thread and the other thread (mass shootings in usa)....a lot of people on your side of the fence were imposing your opinions, belittling/pitch-forking anyone with the opposed view. Clearly that side only wanted to have an entire thread of agreeing voices, a circle-jerk.

Anyway, it's done now. But it's obvious a lot of you have conceded many points to us by the end of the thread.

 

[Max zero]

I don't think so. Read back over the first half of this thread and the other thread (mass shootings in usa)....a lot of people on your side of the fence were imposing your opinions, belittling/pitch-forking anyone with the opposed view. Clearly that side only wanted to have an entire thread of agreeing voices, a circle-jerk.

Anyway, it's done now. But it's obvious a lot of you have conceded many points to us by the end of the thread.

Actually it seems more like you avoid topics you can't counter hence you private dialogue with Hard to Beat.

You still ignore the FACT that despite all the guns the US is more violent then just about any other western nation. Not to mention that despite all the guns the US government is more overbearing then many so called socialist countries.

Guns do not stop violence. The USA itself being all the evidence you need. Nor does it stop the government from overreaching in private lives. Again the USA government itself being the evidence.

All of your avoidance or HtBs irrelevant images won't change this.

You aren't fooling anyone.

 

[nut]

Good to see how the principals and teachers en masse in the territory of New England (and other states) have been responding the last few weeks....asking for and receiving gun tuition and planning to carry concealed weapons in class so as to protect themselves and the kids "in case".

Something for all the naysayers in these topics to ponder and learn from. Fight fire with fire, you do not surrender to violence and fear but stand up to it, protect yourself from the reality of the world/life which is at heart all conflict and endangerment.

You sound like a scared little man who sleeps with the light on.

 

[Monniehawk]

I don't think so. Read back over the first half of this thread and the other thread (mass shootings in usa)....a lot of people on your side of the fence were imposing your opinions, belittling/pitch-forking anyone with the opposed view. Clearly that side only wanted to have an entire thread of agreeing voices, a circle-jerk.
Anyway, it's done now. But it's obvious a lot of you have conceded many points to us by the end of the thread.

Nonsense again! Hypocrisy again!
1. Pls check your own belittling comments. Offered in the stead of any substantive argument. Hyperbole, bullying and abuse.
2. We CAN'T impose our opinions and haven't done so any more than yourself and H2B.
3. We haven't imposed our will on the U.S., just given our opinions. We know that it is not about to change the U.S. mindset. That will be a matter for them and the gun lobby. After all, this is only a public forum, not a Parliament!
4. It may not suit you for others to have a contrary opinion, but don't try to impose your censorship on opinion. Disagree and argue cogently if you will, but don't try to tell us we have no right to an opinion!
Who do you think you are, FFS?
5. Please indicate where anyone has 'conceded' to your points. So far, you haven't really made any points of substance; mostly hyperbole, slogans and outrageous claims that lack any credible evidence.

You still haven't dared answer why Australia is now a safer place with its gun control laws while the U.S., which has the highest gun ownership, has the highest rate of gun crimes of any developed country.
Where would you rather live?

 

[Exe Gesis]

Nothing stops violence. It can't be stopped. Or minimized. Embrace that reality. It'd be remiss of one or a society to not be well-prepared.

Reminds me of what a wise man once said, "you can do it all in another way, but always remember -- violence pays."

 

[Hard_to_Beat]

Nothing stops violence. It can't be stopped. Or minimized. Embrace that reality. It'd be remiss of one or a society to not be well-prepared.

Please, can't we just makes some laws and make the bad people go away?

 

[Exe Gesis]

Laws are the bane of liberty

 

[Hard_to_Beat]

People need to stop reaching out to the state in order to solve all their problems.

All they are doing is creating a bigger tyrant.

 

[Max zero]

Nothing stops violence. It can't be stopped. Or minimized. Embrace that reality. It'd be remiss of one or a society to not be well-prepared.

Reminds me of what a wise man once said, "you can do it all in another way, but always remember -- violence pays."

No you cannot stop ALL violence. But you can certainly reduce it.

Amazingly enough just moving from then USA to Canada will actually significantly reduced the amount of violence you are exposed to.

So no your are just plain wrong.

 

[blackcat]

That's pretty much it.

If the majority want the largely unfettered right to own instruments that are designed for killing (and rapid killing at that), they have to wear the consequences.

But of course they will continue to ask "why did this happen?" as the carnage occurs, over and over and over again.

It's madness. But it's their madness and they are welcome to it.

nah, its called manufacturing consent. bernays and freud spoke of this. the NRA speaks for some, but not a democratic supermajority. they have great resources behind them thanks to the gun manufacturers. they have disproportinate influence.

would an equivalent second amendment be drafted today? does the document have little validity to the time it was enacted?

 

[Hard_to_Beat]

Amazingly enough just moving from then USA to Canada will actually significantly reduced the amount of violence you are exposed to.

Is the U.S. Canadian border gun proof or do you think that there might be some significant socio-cultural factors at play here?