Are too many players eligible for Academies ??

[Cadillac]

Academies should be scrapped.

Father Sons should be limited to players inducted in HOF and the discount removed.

Players who usually get inducted into the HOF would usually be in their 50s. Which means usually if that means their son is eligible for FS they would probably already be in their 20s already in an AFL system.

 

[boncer34]

Agree with the OP.

It's not their fault, but it's really unfair (esp to the Crows) that The Bulldogs (most likely a finalist, possibly top 4) will get the best/most highly rated gun in the draft cause he is part of their academy/zone.

Doesn't stack up to the AFL's long stated goal of equalization.

As I say, this isn't a pop at the Dogs at all, good luck to the Doggies and can't wait to see Jamarra Ugle-Hagan become a superstar in this league, but geez, it looks like a pretty decent Free Hit for a team that looks like being legit contenders for the next decade.

Free hit?

If the ladder remains as is it'll cost the Dogs their entire draft hand and still roughly a 400 point deficit. (I think)

That's a lot on one player.

 

[Pykie]

Yes. Was originally a system to offer a pathway for players in frontier states and fix an imbalance in the go-home factor.

Then, true to form, the heartland clubs crack the sads and demanded their own, recreating the inequity the northern academies were meant to address.

Now they are being exploited even worse going against the spirit of the idea that they are to reward clubs for bringing players into the game from other codes.

I mean seriously, was Lachie Johnson (son of a triple premiership AFL player) who played all the way since Auskick really going to be lost to the game without the Essendon academy?

Was Nick Blakey (son of a senior AFL assistant coach, dual premiership AFL player) who played all the way since Auskick really going to be lost from football without the Sydney Academy?

John Longmire's kids look like doing the same.

They are acting like pseudo F/S setups for club coaches who never played for the club.

 

[Colonial]

Was Nick Blakey (son of a senior AFL assistant coach, dual premiership AFL player) who played all the way since Auskick really going to be lost from football without the Sydney Academy?

John Longmire's kids look like doing the same.

They are acting like suedo F/S setups for club coaches who never played for the club.

Care to point out the footy setup and grassroots that help develop players in the Northern states?

 

[Pykie]

Care to point out the footy setup and grassroots that help develop players in the Northern states?

You mean like AFL Sydney?

The same AFL Sydney that I played in, in the mid 00's (I had played state footy and Div 1 VAFA/EFL football and went up there for it) that had the likes of Dan Rampe running around in it and a current AFL coach in Matty Nicks coaching in it? That one? 14 years ago?

Hayes and McVeigh's were drafted out of Metro Sydney.

Dunstall came out of Brisbane in the 80's FFS.


The rubbish that you guys spew trying to infer there was essentially no AFL pathway for any kid in Sydney until these academies were established is pure horse s**t.

The ACT/NSW RAMS have always existed. There's tons of AFL clubs in Sydney, all with strong Auskick programs, particularly in the Eastern Suburbs where Blakey grew up. That was the case even 15 years ago.

The NSW Football Association, then AFL Sydney, then Sydney AFL is one of the oldest football leagues in the country ffs. Dating back to the late 1890's....

Having played in the top local leagues in Melbourne and AFL Sydney, it was bloody good league even 15 years ago, not Div 1 VAFA or EFL, but certainly the top teams would of been B grade standard.


Which is nothing to fluff at the development of young kids, most young TAC kids are going through a similar pathway.

Then there was the establishment of the NEAFL. The arrangement could of been no different to the WAFL/SANFL clubs. There was no need for academies at that point, funding could of gone directly to these clubs for a genuine colts compeition....

The Nab League is a Victorian competition. SA and WA kids don't have access to it either, they haven't screamed for full blown acadamies.....

 

[Colonial]

You mean like AFL Sydney?

The same AFL Sydney that I played in, in the mid 00's (I had played state footy and Div 1 VAFA/EFL football and went up there for it) that had the likes of Dan Rampe running around in it and a current AFL coach in Matty Nicks coaching in it? That one? 14 years ago?

Hayes and McVeigh's were drafted out of Metro Sydney.

Dunstall came out of Brisbane in the 80's FFS.


The rubbish that you guys spew trying to infer there was essentially no AFL pathway for any kid in Sydney until these academies were established is pure horse sh*t.

The ACT/NSW RAMS have always existed. There's tons of AFL clubs in Sydney, all with strong Auskick programs, particularly in the Eastern Suburbs where Blakey grew up. That was the case even 15 years ago.

The NSW Football Association, then AFL Sydney, then Sydney AFL is one of the oldest football leagues in the country ffs. Dating back to the late 1890's....

Having played in the top local leagues in Melbourne and AFL Sydney, it was bloody good league even 15 years ago, not Div 1 VAFA or EFL, but certainly the top teams would of been B grade standard.


Which is nothing to fluff at the development of young kids, most young TAC kids are going through a similar pathway.

Then there was the establishment of the NEAFL. The arrangement could of been no different to the WAFL/SANFL clubs. There was no need for academies at that point, funding could of gone directly to these clubs for a genuine colts compeition....

The Nab League is a Victorian competition. SA and WA kids don't have access to it either, they haven't screamed for full blown acadamies.....

The grassroots setups in the Northern States are nowhere near as good as the traditional states. To try and say otherwise is ridiculous.

As I’ve said earlier. Have a national under 18s so it’s equal across the board and I’ll back the ending of the academies as they are.
That’s before we get to the other stuff stated earlier.

 

[Pykie]

The grassroots setups in the Northern States are nowhere near as good as the traditional states. To try and say otherwise is ridiculous.

As I’ve said earlier. Have a national under 18s so it’s equal across the board and I’ll back the ending of the academies as they are.
That’s before we get to the other stuff stated earlier.

Who cares if the grass roots setups aren't as good as Victoria? They never ever will be.

Guess what? SA and WA aren't either.

Guess what? All sides in the competition can draft players out of every state, you aren't restricted to drafting players from only NSW like you are tring to infer.

Yet other sides are restricted from basically the entirety of NSW and QLD talent pool, apart from the dregs of those states.

You get a taste of the same thing from the NGA's and everyone is crying foul.....


I hate all the academies, it completely undermines the entire draft system, they should all be thrown in the bin.

Next post will be a bullshit rant comparing the Northern Academies to the Scholarship system and how it needed to be incentivised for the clubs.

Blah blah blah.


The AFL could of incetivised it for the NEAFL clubs quite easily, but that doesn't suit the narrative of the Northern clubs doing it for the "good of the competition", like they are Mary Theresa without any gain in it what so ever.....

 

[Colonial]

Who cares if the grass roots setups aren't as good as Victoria? They never ever will be.

Guess what? SA and WA aren't either.

Guess what? All sides in the competition can draft players out of every state, you aren't restricted to drafting players from only NSW like you are tring to infer.

Yet other sides are restricted from basically the entirety of NSW and QLD talent pool, apart from the dregs of those states.

You get a taste of the same thing from the NGA's and everyone is crying foul.....


I hate all the academies, it completely undermines the entire draft system, they should all be thrown in the bin.

Next post will be a bullshit rant comparing the Northern Academies to the Scholarship system and how it needed to be incentivised by the clubs. Blah blah blah.


The AFL could of incetivised it for the NEAFL clubs quite easily, but that doesn't suit the narritive of the Northern clubs doing it for the "good of the compeition"

Only 1 ranting is yourself.

And you make it obvious in the 1st sentence. Who cares if grassroots isn’t that good.
Shows who’s the nrl be unable to see past their own selves really.
Are you this outraged over the GF staying in the one place, f/s, barely any travel, 3rd party deals and sponsorships etc etc etc.

 

[Mister Snrub]

There is also the argument that it's providing a pathway for talented juniors who would be tempted to play other sports as well e.g. Alex Keath and the lure of cricket was listed as a 17 year old by the Suns, Jamarra Ugle-Hagen and basketball.

In cases like those, I'm happy for academies to exist, but clubs should not be given rights to the players. An AFL-run academy to convince the likes of Keath, JUH, Heeney, etc. to play the game is a good thing, but tying them to clubs to unfair. We are lucky we get JUH, but I'm not going to pretend that it is in any way a fair system

 

[Pykie]

Only 1 ranting is yourself.

And you make it obvious in the 1st sentence. Who cares if grassroots isn’t that good.
Shows who’s the nrl be unable to see past their own selves really.
Are you this outraged over the GF staying in the one place, f/s, barely any travel, 3rd party deals and sponsorships etc etc etc.

I never said I didn't care if the grassroots were any good, I said it doesn't matter if they aren't as good as Victoria.

You will be waiting a millenium if you think the NSW grassroots system is ever going to be comparable to the Victorian talent pool.

You are trying to extort the argument with:

" Have a national under 18s so it’s equal across the board and I’ll back the ending of the academies as they are. "

What the hell does that mean?

You aren't restricted to only NSW players, it's a national draft. So what does it matter if Victorian kids have a deeper pool than NSW?

You still pick a shitload of Victorian kids and have full unencumbered access to that pool.


You have the best of both worlds and at the moment.

 

[Colonial]

I never said I didn't care if the grassroots were any good, I said it doesn't matter if they aren't as good as Victoria.

You will be waiting a millenium if you think the NSW grassroots system is ever going to be comparable to the Victorian talent pool.

You are trying to extort the argument with:

" Have a national under 18s so it’s equal across the board and I’ll back the ending of the academies as they are. "

What the hell does that mean?

You aren't restricted to only NSW players, it's a national draft. So what does it matter if Victorian kids have a deeper pool than NSW?

You still pick a shitload of Victorian kids and have full unencumbered access to that pool.

So that’s a no?

 

[Pykie]

So that’s a no?

No, what?

Changing the subject to the GF and 3rd party deals (Of all things considering the paper bag that is the "AFL multicultural ambassador" is essentially a 3rd party payment to keep big names in emerging markets)?

Answer the question, why does the NSW talent pool have to be as good as Victoria to eradicate the Northern Acadamies?

Why? It makes no difference to the quality of players available to any Northern side. It just strips you of a major inequality in the draft system, just like the NGA's should be removed.

There's already speculation the NGA's will be removed next year.

I mean, Gold Coast was handed the entire Darwin catchment last year under even easier terms than those of the Northern Acadamies.

No bids, no picks required. Just list them on a peice of paper and circumvent the whole draft. There's two top 20 prospects out of Darwin this year.

Seriously, the system is a complete joke. I don't think you actually comprehend how long some supporters have been waiting for some club success, particularly Melbourne and St Kilda fans.

It's an absolute disgrace how the AFL is "engineering" success via these catchment areas. Over half of Australia's population is currently zoned with complete priority access to 4 football clubs.

 

[BallaratBulldog]

Academies are sh*t. We get an advantage but i dont support them.

Keep player pathways and development separate from the actual draft.

Not picking on the Doggies but how the hell do they have an academy? Its a joke.
When did that even happen?

It’s only for indigenous talent (something the dogs havent had for awhile) if they fall around Ballarat, Werrible and simular areas. All clubs get a similar allocations depending of their clubs territory, might have been five years ago.

The Dogs do spend resource to develop the players, as even Jamara has said a few times he wants to reward the effort we put into him. He could have went to Basketball. He will cost a massive amount as im sure some club will bid pretty early.

I’m not saying the system is fair but there is some better context.

 

[Mister Snrub]

With 10 of the first 20 players in this years draft like coming from academies, do these need to be wound back?

I would like for all players in the first round to be available to all, and only players after that are eligible as academy picks.

This would make the system a lot fairer.

I agree academies are becoming a problem, but who are these 10?

Close to locks for top 20:

• Ugle-Hagan (Bulldogs)
• Campbell (Sydney)
• McInness (Pies)
• Alex Davies is going to be taken by GC outside of the draft, but realistically is a chance for top 10 if he wasn't prelisted.

Possible picks:

• Walker (Fremantle)
• Jones (Port)

Guys like Gulden (Sydney) and Western (Fremantle) are highly rated, but are only 172cm playing as midfielders. These types tend to slide, so I highly doubt they're bid on until the 30s. Who else is there, unless I'm missing someone? There's some Adelaide and Essendon kids that look alright, but nothing in the mix for top 20.

The idea that this year's draft is highly compromised has been exaggerated.

In 2019, we saw Henry (9), Green (10), Mead (25), Maginness (29), Coleman (37), Cumberland (43, not matched) and Martyn (44, not matched) all taken in the first 2 rounds.

In 2018, we saw Thomas (8), Blakey (10), Quaynor (13), West (26), Kelly (29), Briggs (34), Cameron (39) and McFadyen (42) all taken in the first 2 rounds.

Remind me how 2020 is any worse than the last 2 years? And JUH being in the frame for Pick 1 is hardly unprecedented, given that Heeney, Hawkins and Walker (just to name a few) have all been in similar situations before, just in even more unbalanced systems

 

[Pykie]

I agree academies are becoming a problem, but who are these 10?

Close to locks for top 20:

• Ugle-Hagan (Bulldogs)
• Campbell (Sydney)
• McInness (Pies)
• Alex Davies is going to be taken by GC outside of the draft, but realistically is a chance for top 10 if he wasn't prelisted.

Possible picks:

• Walker (Fremantle)
• Jones (Port)

Guys like Gulden (Sydney) and Western (Fremantle) are highly rated, but are only 172cm playing as midfielders. These types tend to slide, so I highly doubt they're bid on until the 30s. Who else is there, unless I'm missing someone? There's some Adelaide and Essendon kids that look alright, but nothing in the mix for top 20.

The idea that this year's draft is highly compromised has been exaggerated.

In 2019, we saw Henry (9), Green (10), Mead (25), Maginness (29), Coleman (37), Cumberland (43, not matched) and Martyn (44, not matched) all taken in the first 2 rounds.

In 2018, we saw Thomas (8), Blakey (10), Quaynor (13), West (26), Kelly (29), Briggs (34), Cameron (39) and McFadyen (42) all taken in the first 2 rounds.

Remind me how 2020 is any worse than the last 2 years? And JUH being in the frame for Pick 1 is hardly unprecedented, given that Heeney, Hawkins and Walker (just to name a few) have all been in similar situations before, just in even more unbalanced systems

Yes the "most compromised draft in history" may be the biggest myth of the last 10 years and there's been plenty.

However, I would of loved an opportunity at Campbell and JUH - as a North supporter that looks like having our first top 2 pick in almost 20 years.

Funnily enough Adelaide and North have both never had the #1 pick, both never tanked, yet we both look like getting shafted the most when we finally have the prospect of getting one.

The only justice would be PP's for both given how they were given out like candy 10 years ago for literally more than half the clubs in the comp over that same period.

 

[theyellowsash]

Yes. The academy is supposed to nurture talent missed by the regular pathways but since it's inception it's just been filled with players from existing footy strongholds. Club's aren't finding the diamond in the rough who no-one had noticed, they're just finding the best player that everyone already knew about.

 

[Mister Snrub]

Yes the "most compromised draft in history" may be the biggest myth of the last 10 years and there's been plenty.

However, I would of loved an opportunity at Campbell and JUH as a North supporter that looks like having our first top 2 pick in almost 20 years.

Funnily enough Adelaide and North have both never had the #1 pick, both never tanked, yet we both look like getting shafted the most when we finally have the prospect of getting one.

The only justice would be PP's for both given how they were given out like candy 10 years ago for literally more than half the clubs in the comp over that same period.

Yeah it's never great, and I am firmly against the system of giving clubs the exclusive rights to players. I am simply pointing out that this year is no different to any other year, where clubs are routinely screwed out of having access to star players. Academies are great, but the aspect that gives exclusive rights are not so great. At the very least, they should lose exclusive access when the bids come in the first round.

I am loving the fact that the Dogs get exclusive access to JUH this year, but I am not going to pretend that it's even remotely fair. Adelaide, North and Sydney would all love a player like him given where their lists are at, yet you don't get a choice in the matter. All good that the Dogs will get access to Cody Raak (who will likely be bid on 3rd round onwards), but the JUH one is just silly. As was Green, Henry, Heeney, Blakey, Mills, and all the others before them.

 

[kreglze]

I would be happy for nothern academies to be given up or strictly limited in their scope, as long as NGA's are given up as well as father son.

Have the AFL directly run the talent pathways in the northern states, not the clubs. I'm not 100% sure how it works but I am pretty sure the AFL teams have nothing to do with the U/18 competition in Victoria.

 

[Pykie]

I would be happy for nothern academies to be given up or strictly limited in their scope, as long as NGA's are given up as well as father son.

Have the AFL directly run the talent pathways in the northern states, not the clubs. I'm not 100% sure how it works but I am pretty sure the AFL teams have nothing to do with the U/18 competition in Victoria.

They don't.

The NAB League falls under AFL Victoria.

 

[LordLucifer]

I have had a further think about this subject and have come up with some alternative thoughts.

Father-Son/Daughter Academy & Draft Rules
Every club in the competition can run their own F-S/D academy to introduce the young kids into the club and find out who has the talent & drive to become an AFL player.

Players who's father played 200-games or more (i.e. they are a life member of the club) are eligible to join the club's playing list without the need to be drafted, they are nominated pre-draft and just go onto the list automatically.

The reason for this is that we want to see the legacy of club royalty continue at the same club and there should be some reward for being a life member of the club.

Any player who's father played less than 200-games has to be picked up via the draft and can be bid on by other clubs just as it happens now.

Player Academies
New clubs now and into the future from the Northern states can have a player academy to identify and develop local talent from. This will also serve to promote the game in the new emerging markets.

So at present, GWS & GC should be the only clubs with actual player academies. As they do not have access to F/S options and won't for a few years to come, they should be rewarded for working hard to grow the game in their new markets. However, these academies cannot last forever, so they should only have a 30-year lifespan meaning they get wound up in 2050.

If there was to be two new clubs (eg. Sunshine Coast Saints & North Shore Pirates) enter the competition in say ... 2025, then they would be granted a local player academy until 2055.

Indigenous Academy
Every club in the competition can run their own Indigenous Academy but it is limited to a maximum 8 players. It is in the codes best interests to identify and nurture as much indigenous talent as possible and if each club had a full roster, there would be 144 players being groomed & developed which could be a huge boost to the code.

The players that join these academies can come from anywhere in the country but are open to the same drafting rules as the F/S options who's father didn't play 200-games (ie. can be bid on).

 

[go_the_dockers]

I agree academies are becoming a problem, but who are these 10?

Close to locks for top 20:

• Ugle-Hagan (Bulldogs)
• Campbell (Sydney)
• McInness (Pies)
• Alex Davies is going to be taken by GC outside of the draft, but realistically is a chance for top 10 if he wasn't prelisted.

Possible picks:

• Walker (Fremantle)
• Jones (Port)

Guys like Gulden (Sydney) and Western (Fremantle) are highly rated, but are only 172cm playing as midfielders. These types tend to slide, so I highly doubt they're bid on until the 30s. Who else is there, unless I'm missing someone? There's some Adelaide and Essendon kids that look alright, but nothing in the mix for top 20.

The idea that this year's draft is highly compromised has been exaggerated.

In 2019, we saw Henry (9), Green (10), Mead (25), Maginness (29), Coleman (37), Cumberland (43, not matched) and Martyn (44, not matched) all taken in the first 2 rounds.

In 2018, we saw Thomas (8), Blakey (10), Quaynor (13), West (26), Kelly (29), Briggs (34), Cameron (39) and McFadyen (42) all taken in the first 2 rounds.

Remind me how 2020 is any worse than the last 2 years? And JUH being in the frame for Pick 1 is hardly unprecedented, given that Heeney, Hawkins and Walker (just to name a few) have all been in similar situations before, just in even more unbalanced systems

6 is pretty close to 10.

Edwards is pretty close to top 20 as well. That makes 7.
Gulden, Campbell - 9.

I think the number of players taken by accademies is increasing witht the NGA

 

[Mister Snrub]

I would be happy for nothern academies to be given up or strictly limited in their scope, as long as NGA's are given up as well as father son.

Have the AFL directly run the talent pathways in the northern states, not the clubs. I'm not 100% sure how it works but I am pretty sure the AFL teams have nothing to do with the U/18 competition in Victoria.

Always found it weird that a discount is applied to academies and father son. Having exclusive rights is already a massive benefit, but to add the discount is just ridiculous.

If anything, I'd say charging a premium (20%) on matching would be more fair. If they want the player, they should be forced to pay more than what the bidding club would

 

[Mister Snrub]

6 is pretty close to 10.

Edwards is pretty close to top 20 as well. That makes 7.
Gulden, Campbell - 9.

I think the number of players taken by accademies is increasing witht the NGA

You double counted Campbell, i assume you meant Western?

Gulden and Western won't be bid that early. Caleb Daniel is 4cm shorter, was arguably the most skilled player in his draft year, yet he slid to the 40s. Undersized midfielders rarely get taken early, especially when they're that small.

Edwards is very unlikely to be taken that early. Mead and Maginness were probably higher rated in their draft year than Edwards is now, and they both went mid 20s.

Walker and Jones are only possible top 20. Could very well drop past that point. Again, Mead and Maginness were both considered potential top 20 picks.

This year is not unlike the last few years

 

[Pykie]

I would be happy for nothern academies to be given up or strictly limited in their scope, as long as NGA's are given up as well as father son.

Have the AFL directly run the talent pathways in the northern states, not the clubs. I'm not 100% sure how it works but I am pretty sure the AFL teams have nothing to do with the U/18 competition in Victoria.

GC are really realistically only about 10 years from F/S being as legitimate for them as everyone else.

It should actually drop back to 50 games imo to make it fairer for all clubs, if it's going to stay.

I've always said, I'd have no problem with F/S, Acadmies everything being removed.

A clean draft should be the minimum standard for this competition, it should be #1 priority.

The AFL goes to the NFL and NBA drafts every single year to pick up improvements, but miss the absolute minimum foundation both of them are built on.

No handouts and no inequalities.

 

[Colonial]

No, what?

Changing the subject to the GF and 3rd party deals (Of all things considering the paper bag that is the "AFL multicultural ambassador" is essentially a 3rd party payment to keep big names in emerging markets)?

Answer the question, why does the NSW talent pool have to be as good as Victoria to eradicate the Northern Acadamies?

Why? It makes no difference to the quality of players available to any Northern side. It just strips you of a major inequality in the draft system, just like the NGA's should be removed.

There's already speculation the NGA's will be removed next year.

I mean, Gold Coast was handed the entire Darwin catchment last year under even easier terms than those of the Northern Acadamies.

No bids, no picks required. Just list them on a peice of paper and circumvent the whole draft. There's two top 20 prospects out of Darwin this year.

Seriously, the system is a complete joke. I don't think you actually comprehend how long some supporters have been waiting for some club success, particularly Melbourne and St Kilda fans.

It's an absolute disgrace how the AFL is "engineering" success via these catchment areas. Over half of Australia's population is currently zoned with complete priority access to 4 football clubs.

So yes it is a no to my earlier question. Ok fair enough. Very long winded way of saying it though.