Are violent protests in Melbourne acceptable?

[MPMonkeys]

Oh ok... Here was me thinking that a line at a shop is a sign that there are plenty of people who want that particular good or service... How silly of me

Yeah was pretty silly of you.
If there is one staff member and 3 customers, there will be a line.
If there are two staff members and 3 customers, there will be a smaller line.
If there are three staff members and three customers, there will be no line.

 

[Carn The Berries]

Yeah was pretty silly of you.
If there is one staff member and 3 customers, there will be a line.
If there are two staff members and 3 customers, there will be a smaller line.
If there are three staff members and three customers, there will be no line.

And the throngs of people walking along Swanston St, Bourke St, Collins St, Flinders St that I had to navigate my through would have had nothing to do with it at all....

 

[Gralin]

There were two groups of protestors. One was March for Australia who are described as far right. The counter group who resorted to violence were holding banners that said, 'Workers Unite to Fight the Right' and 'Unite to Fight the Right'. If they weren't "left motivated" what were they?

You post as though it is inconceivable that violent left wing protestors could exist.

One thing is clear - Melbourne needs a complete break from weekend protests. 2 years+ is too long. Of course under this government that will never happen because we have a God given right to protest enshrined in a Charter, the only STATE in Australia to do so.

God given right?

What are you American?

Imagine being upset that in a democracy the right to protest is protected

 

[MPMonkeys]

And the throngs of people walking along Swanston St, Bourke St, Collins St, Flinders St that I had to navigate my through would have had nothing to do with it at all....

Were they carrying backpacks filled with rocks and wearing masks?

 

[Carn The Berries]

There were two groups of protestors. One was March for Australia who are described as far right. The counter group who resorted to violence were holding banners that said, 'Workers Unite to Fight the Right' and 'Unite to Fight the Right'. If they weren't "left motivated" what were they?

You post as though it is inconceivable that violent left wing protestors could exist.

One thing is clear - Melbourne needs a complete break from weekend protests. 2 years+ is too long. Of course under this government that will never happen because we have a God given right to protest enshrined in a Charter, the only STATE in Australia to do so.

Do you hold the same opinion for the "save our kids from the trans people" marches that went on for over a year? Though it doesn't really have the same impact when it's half a dozen Karens walking down the middle of the road screaming.

 

[Carn The Berries]

Were they carrying backpacks filled with rocks and wearing masks?

No

My comments weren't actually related to any protest activity at all. I was in the CBD on Saturday.

My initial post was to refute the dumb comment from another poster that the CBD is a dangerous place and nobody goes there anymore.

But you are free to keep on trying to insinuate things that aren't there, don't let me get in your way.

 

[Sttew]

God given right?

What are you American?

Imagine being upset that in a democracy the right to protest is protected

You have zero sense of humour. I should have used inverted commas so you'd understand.

Why is it Victoria is the only state that felt it necessary to enshrine the right to protest in a Charter? The government has created a rod for its back in so doing.

 

[MPMonkeys]

No

My comments weren't actually related to any protest activity at all. I was in the CBD on Saturday.

My initial post was to refute the dumb comment from another poster that the CBD is a dangerous place and nobody goes there anymore.

But you are free to keep on trying to insinuate things that aren't there, don't let me get in your way.

He said it was an uneasy and uncomfortable place to walk around these days.
And anyone who has been near the top end of Bourke St or the bottom end of Elizabeth St would know exactly how he/she feels.

 

[Gralin]

You have zero sense of humour. I should have used inverted commas so you'd understand.

Why is it Victoria is the only state that felt it necessary to enshrine the right to protest in a Charter? The government has created a rod for its back in so doing.

way to not answer the question Sttew

good to know you're annoyed that the right to protest is protected in Victoria

better question might be to ask why other states don't have it enshrined

or why we don't have a national bill of rights

 

[Gethelred]

I follow your logic, however see a huge difference between threatening disruption eg stop works, shut down etc and performative violence towards police. Regardless of its effectiveness it cannot be accepted.

Its a tricky position to hold then. Not endorsing/opposing protest violence, but acknowledging its necessary for the protest to work?

It's a bit weird for you to throw in the word 'performative' as though it's perjorative in there, Achy. All protest, by its very nature, is performative; every act of state or government, performative; all political violence, whether levied towards police and establishment or from police towards dissent, performative. Any act that is political is for the benefit of that most nebulous of things: the perception of wider society towards your position and power.

And there will always be a time, a place, a moment in which the centre no longer holds and merest anarchy is loosed upon the world. And in those times and places, the tension between those with power desperate to hold it and those without will do whatever it takes to remove them from power; the yoke of it a noose around their necks no longer tolerable.

Treating 'political violence' as always to be condemned would see an awful lot of despots and villains remain in power long after their excesses became too much for the population to bear. There's also the reality that by decrying 'political violence', you are agreeing that the state should have that monopoly over violence; that agreement had never sat comfortably with me in the first place.

I wasn't asked to be a citizen of Australia or subject to its laws. I wasn't consulted when society decided that it had the right to repress my views violently to maintain the peace, or that it has the right to dictate to me when and where I can protest its actions, or how I can overturn its decisions. My choices are to live destitute and a burden on my family or to behave within the bounds of the Social Contract.

So, when you tell me it's a tricky position to hold, I'm kind of left giggling a bit. The government itself's position is a good deal more precarious that mine is, predicated as it is on such shoddy groupthink and unspoken assumptions. It has the unspoken assent of millions upholding it, but when you actually look at the premises which underpin our social order and hierarchy it's very... underwhelming.

Like building the greatest trading hub the world has ever known on a series of sinking islands.

 

[QuietB]

Lines out the door aren't indicative of being busy. Its usually a case of being short-staffed because the owner is unable to predict with any certainty whether his/her business will be impacted by protests so errs on the side of being short staffed.

The rocks that were being thrown at police from those on the left were bluestone railway rocks. They were obviously brought to the protest. Why bring these rocks to a protest?

There is only one Santa Clause pal - you cannot just have more Santa Clauses to reduce the line and that has nothing to do with protests.

The kids just won't cop it!

 

[Not Important]

he wallopers going after the progressives? perish the thought.

In pictures: Violent police tactics hit left-wing rally, as flag-waving 'March for Australia' wanders Melbourne

Victoria Police succeeded in keeping nationalist and anti-racist demonstrations separate, but only by deploying immense violence against the left-wing rally as clashes erupted around the CBD.

www.crikey.com.au

 

[Carn The Berries]

He said it was an uneasy and uncomfortable place to walk around these days.
And anyone who has been near the top end of Bourke St or the bottom end of Elizabeth St would know exactly how he/she feels.

The exact quote was "you wouldn't go into the CBD if your life depended on it".

There was no mention of specific locations, hence the quote was absolute horseshit.

Even based on your "no go zones" above, it would still be horseshit. My family and I stayed at the top end of Bourke St and had a lovely time.

Keep trying though

 

[faible]

The exact quote was "you wouldn't go into the CBD if your life depended on it".

There was no mention of specific locations, hence the quote was absolute horseshit.

Even based on your "no go zones" above, it would still be horseshit. My family and I stayed at the top end of Bourke St and had a lovely time.

Keep trying though

I think Jack is just a stock standard racist.

He sees' a few non-white folk and feels uncomfortable.

 

[Carn The Berries]

I think Jack is just a stock standard racist.

He sees' a few non-white folk and feels uncomfortable.

Interesting that the poster holds that view after the events of the weekend, and didn't say boo when the neo-Nazis were wreaking havoc at Camp Sovereignty...

 

[Sttew]

way to not answer the question Sttew

good to know you're annoyed that the right to protest is protected in Victoria

better question might be to ask why other states don't have it enshrined

or why we don't have a national bill of rights

Please watch this video and then tell me you genuinely believe what happened on SUNDAY was okay. I know you have an abject hatred of Police, but how can you believe or insinuate Police provoked the violence when protestors came equipped with ballast rock clearly not found in Spring Street; in other words some protestors came looking for trouble. What would have happened if there had been no Police? The mind boggles.

And you ask why other states haven't enshrined the right to protest? Sunday is your answer. Protests happen in all other states, clearly not the same frequency as Melbourne. This government is paralysed to do anything about it here relying on the "everyone has a right to protest" line. Consequently we've had protests every Sunday for more than 2 years.

Police have had a gutful, and I reckon the silent majority of Melburnians and Victorians have as well. Hundreds of police had to be deployed to this protest because they knew counter protests would converge. That meant police were diverted from other areas of Melbourne and the state.

And one last thing, any Police injured yesterday are not entitled to sue the Force for injuries suffered. They have been stripped of that right and it suits the government not to reinstate that right. But a protestor who is injured can sue Police if injured. ****ed system?

 

[faible]

Interesting that the poster holds that view after the events of the weekend, and didn't say boo when the neo-Nazis were wreaking havoc at Camp Sovereignty...

neo-nazis are overwhelmingly white, so....

 

[Gralin]

Please watch this video and then tell me you genuinely believe what happened on Saturday was okay.

Yeah I have no issue with what happened on Saturday not sure why you posted the above video in relation to Saturday though

I know you have an abject hatred of Police, but how can you believe or insinuate Police provoked the violence when protestors came equipped with ballast rock clearly not found in Spring Street;

don't tend to find riot gear, rubber bullets, horses, capsicum spray, tear gas or flash bang grenades just lying around on Spring St either Sttew but we saw plenty of those things on Sunday

in other words some protestors came looking for trouble. What would have happened if there had been no Police? The mind boggles.

Reckon a bunch of nazis might have gotten bricked

And you ask why other states haven't enshrined the right to protest?

Yes I do given its a key pillar of a democratic society

Sunday is your answer.

so they don't like the public mobilising against fascists and racists? I mean it makes sense but it doesn't seem like something you should be proud of

Protests happen in all other states, clearly not the same frequency as Melbourne.

Got any stats to back this up or is it just vibes based?

This government is paralysed to do anything about it here relying on the "everyone has a right to protest" line.

Are you saying that not everyone should have a right to protest?

Consequently we've had protests every Sunday for more than 2 years.

What's been going on for 2 years Sttew? Oh and if you think only Melbourne has seen protests every Sunday for 2 years about those events I'd suggest your news feed is a little localised

Police have had a gutful, and I reckon the silent majority of Melburnians and Victorians have as well.

ah yes the silent majority, who never go to the city anyway probably

Hundreds of police had to be deployed to this protest because they knew counter protests would converge. That meant police were diverted from other areas of Melbourne and the state.

Yeah gotta protect their mates from the consequences of their own bigotry I guess

And one last thing, any Police injured yesterday are not entitled to sue the Force for injuries suffered. They have been stripped of that right and it suits the government not to reinstate that right. But a protestor who is injured can sue Police if injured. ****ed system?

That seems like an issue you should take up with the government not the protestors Sttew, don't think the protestors brought in those laws

 

[faible]

ah yes the silent majority, who never go to the city anyway probably

The so called silent majority rarely seems to be a majority, nor are they silent.

I doubt the majority of people have the weekly protests on their radar at all.

Except of course when media absolutely blanket the shit out of it because they can demonise 'the left'.

I don't recall anywhere near the level of coverage when actual neo-nazis were platformed at a protest then went and assaulted Camp Sovereignty.

 

[Number37]

There were two groups of protestors. One was March for Australia who are described as far right. The counter group who resorted to violence were holding banners that said, 'Workers Unite to Fight the Right' and 'Unite to Fight the Right'. If they weren't "left motivated" what were they?

You post as though it is inconceivable that violent left wing protestors could exist.

One thing is clear - Melbourne needs a complete break from weekend protests. 2 years+ is too long. Of course under this government that will never happen because we have a God given right to protest enshrined in a Charter, the only STATE in Australia to do so.

You are just making shit up.
I never said 'tHe LeFt" can't do violent protests.

Why is it such a big F'n deal that 'left motivated' protests sometimes includes violence?

You want tHe LeFt to write a sternly worded letter to Nazi protestors?
F that. Sometimes Nazis need to be shown that they aren't as tough as they think. Like always, they will run to hide behind the po-po like the cowards that they are when confronted.

 

[Gralin]

The so called silent majority rarely seems to be a majority, nor are they silent.

I doubt the majority of people have the weekly protests on their radar at all.

Except of course when media absolutely blanket the shit out of it because they can demonise 'the left'.

I don't recall anywhere near the level of coverage when actual neo-nazis were platformed at a protest then went and assaulted Camp Sovereignty.

speaking on behalf of Jan and Joe public lends a certain gravitas to your posting I guess, but calling them silent makes it sound like you're the only one courageous enough to speak up for the oppressed majority you claim to represent

really smacks of wearing all your participation ribbons to work

 

[MPMonkeys]

You are just making shit up.
I never said 'tHe LeFt" can't do violent protests.

Why is it such a big F'n deal that 'left motivated' protests sometimes includes violence?

You want tHe LeFt to write a sternly worded letter to Nazi protestors?
F that. Sometimes Nazis need to be shown that they aren't as tough as they think. Like always, they will run to hide behind the po-po like the cowards that they are when confronted.

I find it ironic that people who casually throw the word 'Nazi' around for anyone who disagrees with them are also the same ones who call for the abolition of Israel.

 

[Number37]

I find it ironic that people who casually throw the word 'Nazi' around for anyone who disagrees with them are also the same ones who call for the abolition of Israel.

I'm not a Nazi I just think Australia is for white people, like it has always been (not counting the 60,000 years the indigenous folk were here). It's basic maths 240 >>>>>> 60,0000

 

[00Stinger]

Violence on the streets, and the targeting of police, is never acceptable.

But when you have the head of the police force using ignorant simplistic binary and inflammatory 'left' vs 'right' narrative at a press conference then imho it seems pretty clear that the Police Force itself is taking a political stance and contributing to the growing problem of division in society.

would you feel the same if he blamed the violence on the right?

 

[Gralin]

would you feel the same if he blamed the violence on the right?

well we probably wouldnt see this sort of thing happening if he'd blamed the right