Are we just as bad as India?

[Jimthegreat]

We know our batsmen aren't this good. We are allowing them to gorge themselves this summer on flat decks, when we know that they won't receive the same conditions when they go overseas. Is it a case of CA having their priorities the wrong way around? I'd love nothing more for us to go over to England and smash them next time but I can't see it happening on the basis that we aren't having adequate preparation or expanding our skill sets.

We are all quick to have a crack at India for preparing dustbowls but this is just as bad IMO.

Is anyone really buying that Burns, Khawaja and Voges are as good as their stats seem? No. This is an issue for me. The poor opposition doesn't help, but we did the same against a good attack in NZ.

Should we give up our home advantage and back ourselves to improve?

Has made for a horrible summer of cricket too (Adelaide test being the obvious stand out, but that was a vastly different set of circumstances and conditions).

If we were doctoring our wickets we'd have had 4 seaming green tops for the Indian series last year, with Johnson playing havoc with their health and well-being. The flat we provided those pricks with 4 of the flattest track imaginable to almost help them along suggests we are the exact opposite to India. India produce 10th day wickets on the first day just to help their spinners, who are pretty average otherwise.

Problem is, our curators are told, i'm thinking, to produce pitches to last 5 days to maximise revenue. That is what doesn't allow us to play any form of moving ball well overseas. If we had pitches where the ball moved about then we'd be much better at it.

 

[Carbine Chaos]

If we were doctoring our wickets we'd have had 4 seaming green tops for the Indian series last year, with Johnson playing havoc with their health and well-being. The flat we provided those pricks with 4 of the flattest track imaginable to almost help them along suggests we are the exact opposite to India. India produce 10th day wickets on the first day just to help their spinners, who are pretty average otherwise.

We don't necessarily doctor pitches for results alone but also to guarantee 5 days so more cash. It's just another bullshit reason they are preparing them the way they are.

 

[Jimthegreat]

We don't necessarily doctor pitches for results alone but also to guarantee 5 days so more cash. It's just another bullshit reason they are preparing them the way they are.

Yes, I just added that as an "edit".

 

[Chuckie357]

Reality is australia will struggle to beat NZ in Nz in a few months time

We will just stack the team with T20 players because the grounds are that small over there

 

[Chuckie357]

If we were doctoring our wickets we'd have had 4 seaming green tops for the Indian series last year, with Johnson playing havoc with their health and well-being. The flat we provided those pricks with 4 of the flattest track imaginable to almost help them along suggests we are the exact opposite to India. India produce 10th day wickets on the first day just to help their spinners, who are pretty average otherwise.

Problem is, our curators are told, i'm thinking, to produce pitches to last 5 days to maximise revenue. That is what doesn't allow us to play any form of moving ball well overseas. If we had pitches where the ball moved about then we'd be much better at it.

The pitches aren't doctored to be flat anyway, this is evident by David Warners lack of runs at the moment

 

[Mateyman]

How can the West Indies tests be used as evidence of anything to do with the pitches? Wouldn't matter if you're producing the MCG pitch of the 1980s when you're playing a team as incompetent and disinterested as the West Indies at present. I also love all these exclamations about how good teams like Engand and New Zealand are away from home, and how they'd beat us at neutral venues, when They have recently been flogged in Australia, with England never even looking like winning a test.

 

[The_Reaper]

Not quite as bad. Their bowlers are completely incompetent outside of the subcontinent. Ashwin's average outside India is close to 40, and from memory Jadeja's is around 50.

Our bowlers can at least take wickets overseas.

Except when we go to the UAE

 

[The_Reaper]

The biggest thing with these flat wickets is how boring it all is.

 

[Carbine Chaos]

The biggest thing with these flat wickets is how boring it all is.

I fell asleep twice yesterday when we were batting.

On paper it seems good with the wickets in the afternoon but I'm really missing any form of contest. Only had 1 competitive Test out of 5 so far this summer. The Ashes were rubbish as well, one sided game after one sided game.

 

[The_Reaper]

I fell asleep twice yesterday when we were batting.

On paper it seems good with the wickets in the afternoon but I'm really missing any form of contest. Only had 1 competitive Test out of 5 so far this summer. The Ashes were rubbish as well, one sided game after one sided game.

If it's part of a cunning plan to make people move from tests to Big Bash a few more seasons of this and it will start to work

 

[STFU Donnie]

I fell asleep twice yesterday when we were batting.

On paper it seems good with the wickets in the afternoon but I'm really missing any form of contest. Only had 1 competitive Test out of 5 so far this summer. The Ashes were rubbish as well, one sided game after one sided game.

It's sacrilege, and I never, never thought I'd write something like this, but I'm enjoying the BBL more than the tests.

 

[Natho]

South Africa battled to make 150 in India recently. We're not the only side who struggled.

 

[The_Reaper]

South Africa battled to make 150 in India recently. We're not the only side who struggled.

That was South Africa's only series loss away from home since 2006

We haven't won a series in England since 2001
In India since 2004 (and we regularly get whitewashed)
And haven't won an away series against Pakistan since 2002

 

[Parquet Court]

It's sacrilege, and I never, never thought I'd write something like this, but I'm enjoying the BBL more than the tests.

Strong contest after contest will do that

 

[SherbertLemon]

The Adelaide test was the first time in years I found myself enjoying a home series. It's amazing watching a test dominated by the ball. Batsmen actually have to earn their runs.

 

[Damon_3388]

Why do people hate it when the bat dominates, yet love it when the ball dominates? Why is one "better" than the other?

 

[Carbine Chaos]

Why do people hate it when the bat dominates, yet love it when the ball dominates? Why is one "better" than the other?

Personal preference for me. For most I'd imagine (these days) it is because the ball dominating is such a rarity, such is the nature of the modern game.

 

[G Mus]

Why do people hate it when the bat dominates, yet love it when the ball dominates? Why is one "better" than the other?

One ensures a result, the other necessarily doesn't

 

[Scotland]

If we doctored our pitches so that we had 5 decks that resembled the WACA of the 90s then I'd agree with the OP.

The pitches we produce now aren't difficult to bat on at all. Our batsmen are feasting on them (and the poor bowling of the Windies - NZ weren't nearly as bad) but any half decent test batsman would do the same. Williamson and Taylor certainly didn't struggle.

I reckon the India thing is overblown anyway. Last time we were there we lost because we stank. Two out of four tests went to 5 days and they made 500 twice and 499 once. If it's so easy for guys like Jadeja, Ashwin etc. to take wickets they can't take elsewhere Lyon, Maxwell, Smith should have a field day. It's hardly the BCCI's fault if we pick 3 quicks and a 4th seamer as an all rounder on pitches that turn sideways but offer no pace and bounce.

The reason people like T20s (and used to like ODIs) is that it's over in a few hours, there's plenty of excitement and the conditions don't really have that much influence on the result. Each team gets 20 overs and unless it rains out there is always a result. The reason people (used to?) like tests is that over 3-5 days it's a war of attrition and the conditions do influence the result. Bat first and it might be seaming. Bat last and it might be turning sideways. You can't just set a score and hope the other team falls short, you need to take wickets. Tests like the Perth one against NZ are just 5 days of batting practice. No one wants to see that. I mean if you gave the Scorchers and whoever 225 overs each and whoever scores the most runs wins would anyone attend?

 

[Scotland]

Why do people hate it when the bat dominates, yet love it when the ball dominates? Why is one "better" than the other?

People want to see action, positive cricket and results.

T20 is great because with such short innings teams are typically scoring at about 8 an over. Whether a team is chasing 120 or 200 the excitement is in the closeness of the contest as well as balls sailing over the fence. If matches start becoming 0/180 vs 0/181 then attendances will wane. Great man Brad Hogg regularly bowls spells at a run a ball or less. We love him because in a game where 10-20 run overs aren't uncommon batsman just can't get him away. Just as we love guys like Starc and Malinga firing in unplayable yorkers.

People want to see runs scored and big/fast knocks in tests, too. Anyone who remembers the 2006/7 Ashes remembers Gilly's ton at the WACA fondly. It stands out because no one else was making centuries at near 2 runs a ball. What they don't want to see is matches like the one going on currently where there is an absurd gulf in talent between the two sides and matches like the one in Perth where it was just session after session of easy runs for both teams.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

How often do both teams make <250 in their first innings in Australia?

 

[Glacier]

OP is correct
We see the struggle when we go to countries where the ball deviates
Warner is a classic example, ball swings and he struggles to adapt
How anyone can describe the bland pitches in this country as good just baffles me
I would rather see batsmen struggle than just whack through the line all the time
Would rather watch a raging turner or the ball swing any day of the week

 

[Glacier]

Why do people hate it when the bat dominates, yet love it when the ball dominates? Why is one "better" than the other?

Coz its like watching stick cricket on the phone

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

That was South Africa's only series loss away from home since 2006

We haven't won a series in England since 2001
In India since 2004 (and we regularly get whitewashed)
And haven't won an away series against Pakistan since 2002

India is a concern. W/D/L:

0-4 in the last series (4 tests)
0-2 in the previous (2 tests)
0-2 in the one before that (4 tests)

As for Pakistan, they've only played two series since 2002:

1-1 in 2010
0-2 in 2014

So that's a massive 1 series in row that Aus has lost to them overseas.

And England? They've lost 4 in a row but have generally been competitive. It's a concern but it's not as if they can't compete at all.

1-2 in 2005
1-2 in 2009
0-3 in 2013
2-3 in 2015

Compare that to England's away Ashes record since 2001:

1-4 in 2003
0-5 in 2007
3-1 in 2011
0-5 in 2014

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

Why do people hate it when the bat dominates, yet love it when the ball dominates? Why is one "better" than the other?

When the bat dominates it gets all too predictable. Runs will come, a wicket won't fall except through stupidity. When the bowling is on top, there's always a chance of runs and of wickets. There is more tension and the game just "moves" quicker when the bowling is on top, even if the scoreboard doesn't.
Personal view of course. Plus we see batting dominate in the short games, its nice to see something else in the real game.