News Are We Really Improving?

[Royce Hafey]

I agree on most of your points, but I don't actually believe we are ahead of collingwod CFC or Geelong yet maybe on ladder position , but that's irrelevant as I look at overall progress and potential based on recent movements

I think we are ahead of Collingwood - we made the finals this year and finished ahead of them last year. We can't beat them, but that just makes them a bogey team not a better team (ask the Hawks about us). But I also think it's a moot point. The fact is that four years ago they won a grand final and we were favourites for the wooden spoon. I think our list is better placed in more general terms and our movement has been up (until this year when we tread water) while there's has been downwards every year since Buckley took over. Also I argued that we'd improved out position viz a viz Geelong not that we'd overtaken them.

 

[TheTigerArmy]

Do you think Woolworth's doesn't look over Coles backyard and vice versa ?You're delusional mate if you think this doesn't happen
This thread was not intended to be a blight on the club , but the usual suspects took it to be and missed the point.
Try again when you can come up with some real evidence to convince me that we are ahead of our main dangers

a bit of CONSTRUCTIVE critisism from time to time dosnt hurt anyone but you and your mate MrMagic continuly give negativity ALL the time... the club does get it wrong in certain areas from time to time..and in the past they got it wrong alot..but in recent years they are doing far more good than bad but your negativity is the glass is alway half empty mentallity rather than the glass is half full...open your eyes to the way more good the club is doin than bad and you wont be nearly as negative..

 

[TheTigerArmy]

I think we are ahead of Collingwood - we made the finals this year and finished ahead of them last year. We can't beat them, but that just makes them a bogey team not a better team (ask the Hawks about us). But I also think it's a moot point. The fact is that four years ago they won a grand final and we were favourites for the wooden spoon. I think our list is better placed in more general terms and our movement has been up (until this year when we tread water) while there's has been downwards every year since Buckley took over. Also I argued that we'd improved out position viz a viz Geelong not that we'd overtaken them.

good post..

 

[TigerImposter]

a bit of CONSTRUCTIVE critisism from time to time dosnt hurt anyone but you and your mate MrMagic continuly give negativity ALL the time... the club does get it wrong in certain areas from time to time..and in the past they got it wrong alot..but in recent years they are doing far more good than bad but your negativity is the glass is alway half empty mentallity rather than the glass is half full...open your eyes to the way more good the club is doin than bad and you wont be nearly as negative..

Mate your the negative one bc you enjoy bowing down to the rest and expecting low standards
What are your views on our improvement in terms of coaching staff ,admin areas ,marketing, recruiters, listed players?
keep rambling on as i haven't seen a positive post from you yet .You may eventually fluke one
how are we being negative by asking about our improvement rate and measuring it against others. have you been involved in THE RUNNING of any form of business ?

 

[TheTigerArmy]

Mate your the negative one bc you enjoy bowing down to the rest and expecting low standards
What are your views on our improvement in terms of coaching staff ,admin areas ,marketing, recruiters, listed players?
keep rambling on as i haven't seen a positive post from you yet .You may eventually fluke one
how are we being negative by asking about our improvement rate and measuring it against others. have you been involved in THE RUNNING of any form of business ?

Until you know the ins and outs of the club from within you are talking into the wind...the clubis returning to a powerhouse on and off the field...when we win our nxt grand final you will be the one complaining that we didnt win it by a bigger margin...how bout talking just a tiny bit about what positives things the club is doin...you are all negative my friend..

 

[smasha]

The only way they can spend $35,000,000 is to take on massive debt.

If this was an article about Richmond the thread would be all about Dimma and Gale destroying the club with debt.

Herald Sun would have that out already.

 

[smasha]

I actually agree with the "negative" posters on here about the fact that the club needs to be improving at a rate that is higher than teams around us, or above us. You guys are right, the club does need to do everything it can to become a "great" club, not just competitive.

The reason this kind of talk shits people off though, is that for some of you, NOTHING that the club does (or doesn't) do will be good enough to satisfy you, and no results will ever keep you happy.

For example, if everything that has been spoken about in this thread so far in regards to replacing coaches and bringing in high quality players from other clubs had happened, you wouldn't give Gale/Dimma/etc credit for those things, you would find different issues to harp about instead.

If Richmond win the flag in 2015, I absolutely guarantee that the majority of the people sticking the boot in to the club at the moment, would respond with something along the lines of "well we've won a premiership, but Gale and Dimma haven't set us up for premierships in 2016 and 2017, THEY'VE GONE CHEAP FOR JUST THE ONE FLAG THE BASTARDS!!!! D:<"

And it's THIS kind of attitude that absolutely shits me to tears about some of the supporters on here.

Let me make it clear; being critical about the club's decision and direction is sometimes a very good thing, because in order to improve constantly, you need to be looking for holes in the system that can be fixed. But at the same time, the club has also done MANY things right, and unfortunately considering where we were at 5 years ago, we needed to go through stages of development to get to the point where we ultimately want to go.

We are still on a journey, and we started far further back than any other club in recent memory. Were you guys just expecting us to go from 2010 basket-case, Fitzroy-like losers, to 2015 all time grand champions who are absolutely elite at every single thing in the competition?

Hawthorn were in some deep trouble in the mid to late 90's, much like we were around that 2009-2010 period. If you drew a parallel and said that Hawthorn's 1996 was like our 2010, then basically it took the Hawks 12 years from that point to get their club right.

In the same vein, Collingwood was on its' knees in 1999 when Eddie took over, and it took them 11 years of hard work to get them to a premiership in 2010. Granted, they did play in a couple of GF's in that time, however that was probably moreso on the immense talent of Mick Malthouse getting the best out of an ordinary squad, as an established premiership coach at the peak of his powers.

The point is, where we were at in 2010 was arguably the worst we've ever been, and although 5 years sounds like a long time, the truth is that due to the competitiveness and evenness of the competition these days, it could realistically take us 10-15 years to win a premiership from where we were.

What Gale (and to a lesser extent Dimma) has done in this initial period, is build the foundation of this club back up from scratch, and restored some pride back into this footy club.

What people have got to understand, is that whilst Gale pitched a 5 year plan, in reality it's really a 20 year plan, that will hopefully set us up to win 8-10 premierships in the next 50-70 years.

The awesome work that they have been able to do in this 5 year period, has the potential to set this club up to be a powerhouse for 20-30+ years, but we've gotta stick fat and just enjoy the journey.

Think about it like this: the decisions made in the late 70's and early 80's set us back for 30 years. The decisions and plans made in the early to mid 10's, will hopefully reverse that effect, and set us up for greatness in the next 30 years.

But none of it happens overnight.

Playing Richmond is everyones granny.
The pressure will always be on for our club.
We need to harness that mental strength.
We are still a gigantic club and that is precisely the reason other clubs hunt us down

 

[ReaperX]

This has now become marketing an salesmanship if you believe in a 20 plan term. The club will fold if they continue to spit out excuses. Look at the crowd drop offs during the first 13 weeks
We didn't hit our 3075 goal so why weren't people held accountable. ? Too easy going mate and as Rusty stated there is too much bum slapping and content with mediocrity . We need to be more professional in all departments and leave no stone unturned
After 2012 we became impatient or ago with our progress and started taking short cuts in band aid recruiting to get us a flag quicker and our youth development seemed to dropped off and with coaches leaving etc etc its now hit an iceberg
I believe most of your ideas but we have decelerated with our improvement in comparison to other clubs is my fear

I have some concerns about some of our development as well, I even made a thread about it.

We need to get better, but the difference is, I believe that the people at the club are the right people, and I'm backing them in right now to improve their performance and get better, whereas some people just want to sack them and start all over again, which won't achieve anything and will put us even further back.

The same way you generalise the "negative" posters like that, I'll generalist the "positive" posters by saying you all are happy for anything the club does. You celebrate any decision and back the club.

The evidence over 30 years says the positive, sorry "positive" posters don't have a ******* clue about football.

Also your assumption that I would bag the club after a Premiership is almost the most laughable concept I've read on Bigfooty.

That's all I want in my lifetime. A Richmond premiership. The notion of achieving this would have me ridicule the club is ******* stupid.

It's why I care and why I'm perceived negative. I don't see the club doing enough to achieve this. You agreed to an extent of this.

How can you agree that you think the club needs to do more to win a flag, but back their decisions and fight for the people at the club no matter what?

Don't you care? You happy to never win a flag? You don't want to be successful?

I don't understand this hypocritical thinking. Where's your backbone? Where's your spirit?

Just backing the club no matter what is a pointless way of going through life. Demand excellence, demand success.

******* campaigners everywhere.

The key difference between us here isn't our ideals, because there's nothing more I want than for Richmond to win a premiership.

The difference between us is simple; I'm 24 years old, and therefore I've only ever known failure from this club. Which means I'm looking at everything being done in the context of a long term goal to get this club competitive for the years where I turn 40, 50, 60 years old, etc. Season to season is just not as important to me as it is to you, because I'm assuming you're a guy who's maybe in your 40's or 50's, and when you were my age and younger you saw Richmond as a powerhouse who fell, and therefore you will only be satisfied when Richmond is a powerhouse again that has won premierships.

If Richmond makes the finals next year, wins a final, and gets knocked out in the semis, I will be satisfied that we are still on the right track. My guess is that if I asked you what you'd be satisfied with, you would say "a premiership in 2015". Now eventually this will be my answer too, but right now I know that a premiership in 2015 is not possible yet, because we are simply not ready as a club. And the reason we are not ready is because of how just far we've had to come just to be competitive. Which is why I (and others) continually highlight just how much we have improved.

It's not back-slapping, it's context. We may not have achieved much in the grand scheme of things yet, but in the context of our football club, we've smashed through barriers every year that previous administrations/coaching staff/squads have failed to do. Yes, we have work to do to become like Hawthorn, but we are on the right track.

Hawthorn got back to where it is now by doing what we are doing, and that is each year, building that foundation for sustained success, and adding tidbits to it. This club is not immune from criticism and making mistakes, but my opinion is that the club has been consistently trending upwards since 2009, and even when we've messed up, I've seen that we have the talent and the people to get out of it still.

Obviously, I'd rather we didn't put ourselves in that position again, but the point is, I've seen this Richmond outfit at their best, and at their best, they can smash the Hawks, who are the current back-to-back premiers, and have lost about 9 games in the last 3 seasons (2 of them to us).

We are capable in terms of talent, but it takes more than talent, it takes consistency of performance, and I believe that we have the right people in place to achieve that consistency.

 

[TheTigerArmy]

I have some concerns about some of our development as well, I even made a thread about it.

We need to get better, but the difference is, I believe that the people at the club are the right people, and I'm backing them in right now to improve their performance and get better, whereas some people just want to sack them and start all over again, which won't achieve anything and will put us even further back.



The key difference between us here isn't our ideals, because there's nothing more I want than for Richmond to win a premiership.

The difference between us is simple; I'm 24 years old, and therefore I've only ever known failure from this club. Which means I'm looking at everything being done in the context of a long term goal to get this club competitive for the years where I turn 40, 50, 60 years old, etc. Season to season is just not as important to me as it is to you, because I'm assuming you're a guy who's maybe in your 40's or 50's, and when you were my age and younger you saw Richmond as a powerhouse who fell, and therefore you will only be satisfied when Richmond is a powerhouse again that has won premierships.

If Richmond makes the finals next year, wins a final, and gets knocked out in the semis, I will be satisfied that we are still on the right track. My guess is that if I asked you what you'd be satisfied with, you would say "a premiership in 2015". Now eventually this will be my answer too, but right now I know that a premiership in 2015 is not possible yet, because we are simply not ready as a club. And the reason we are not ready is because of how just far we've had to come just to be competitive. Which is why I (and others) continually highlight just how much we have improved.

It's not back-slapping, it's context. We may not have achieved much in the grand scheme of things yet, but in the context of our football club, we've smashed through barriers every year that previous administrations/coaching staff/squads have failed to do. Yes, we have work to do to become like Hawthorn, but we are on the right track.

Hawthorn got back to where it is now by doing what we are doing, and that is each year, building that foundation for sustained success, and adding tidbits to it. This club is not immune from criticism and making mistakes, but my opinion is that the club has been consistently trending upwards since 2009, and even when we've messed up, I've seen that we have the talent and the people to get out of it still.

Obviously, I'd rather we didn't put ourselves in that position again, but the point is, I've seen this Richmond outfit at their best, and at their best, they can smash the Hawks, who are the current back-to-back premiers, and have lost about 9 games in the last 3 seasons (2 of them to us).

We are capable in terms of talent, but it takes more than talent, it takes consistency of performance, and I believe that we have the right people in place to achieve that consistency.

a good constructive post.....

 

[Ned_Flanders]

can we please stop all this darksider/brightsider shit?

one of the perks of being banned from PRE is not having to put up with that crap anymore

we are all fans, we disagree on some shit, and agree on most shit

this idea we are two sets of opposing camps is lunacy, and should remain on PRE

 

[ReaperX]

can we please stop all this darksider/brightsider shit?

one of the perks of being banned from PRE is not having to put up with that crap anymore

we are all fans, we disagree on some shit, and agree on most shit

this idea we are two sets of opposing camps is lunacy, and should remain on PRE

I agree with you, I genuinely just wish we could all take a step back, enjoy the footy for what it is, and just love the club like we should be doing, instead of talking shit about it all the time.

Regardless of how they ended up at the club, and if you agree with them being here or not, my thought is simple; if you don't want to back ALL of our people in while they are wearing our guernsey (and that includes Hampson, Grigg, Chaplin, Thomas, Petterd, and whoever else you don't like), then my club can do without you, and you should go and support Gold Coast or GWS or something like that.

CARN. THE. MOTHER. ****ING. RICHMOND. TIGERS. BITCH!

 

[Grockadoc]

Don't forget, it wasn't just the playing group that needed to be developed. The club as a whole needed to.

We had limited Football Department spending, limited facilities and limited access to top end talent both in terms of staff and potential recruits. The club had to go through a phase where the whole club needed to be replaced from top to bottom, board to dressing room. We brought in people who were qualified but inexperienced and they needed to develop with it, so yes, from where we were when Benny Gale and Dimma took over to where we are now, yes we have improved.

Every club is always improving as that is what it takes to succeed. Constantly looking at areas that need to upgraded or exploited to get the most out of the assets you have.

 

[TheTigerArmy]

Don't forget, it wasn't just the playing group that needed to be developed. The club as a whole needed to.

We had limited Football Department spending, limited facilities and limited access to top end talent both in terms of staff and potential recruits. The club had to go through a phase where the whole club needed to be replaced from top to bottom, board to dressing room. We brought in people who were qualified but inexperienced and they needed to develop with it, so yes, from where we were when Benny Gale and Dimma took over to where we are now, yes we have improved.

Every club is always improving as that is what it takes to succeed. Constantly looking at areas that need to upgraded or exploited to get the most out of the assets you have.

Excellent PosItiVe post...

 

[Tigerbob]

I have some concerns about some of our development as well, I even made a thread about it.

We need to get better, but the difference is, I believe that the people at the club are the right people, and I'm backing them in right now to improve their performance and get better, whereas some people just want to sack them and start all over again, which won't achieve anything and will put us even further back.



The key difference between us here isn't our ideals, because there's nothing more I want than for Richmond to win a premiership.

The difference between us is simple; I'm 24 years old, and therefore I've only ever known failure from this club. Which means I'm looking at everything being done in the context of a long term goal to get this club competitive for the years where I turn 40, 50, 60 years old, etc. Season to season is just not as important to me as it is to you, because I'm assuming you're a guy who's maybe in your 40's or 50's, and when you were my age and younger you saw Richmond as a powerhouse who fell, and therefore you will only be satisfied when Richmond is a powerhouse again that has won premierships.

If Richmond makes the finals next year, wins a final, and gets knocked out in the semis, I will be satisfied that we are still on the right track. My guess is that if I asked you what you'd be satisfied with, you would say "a premiership in 2015". Now eventually this will be my answer too, but right now I know that a premiership in 2015 is not possible yet, because we are simply not ready as a club. And the reason we are not ready is because of how just far we've had to come just to be competitive. Which is why I (and others) continually highlight just how much we have improved.

It's not back-slapping, it's context. We may not have achieved much in the grand scheme of things yet, but in the context of our football club, we've smashed through barriers every year that previous administrations/coaching staff/squads have failed to do. Yes, we have work to do to become like Hawthorn, but we are on the right track.

Hawthorn got back to where it is now by doing what we are doing, and that is each year, building that foundation for sustained success, and adding tidbits to it. This club is not immune from criticism and making mistakes, but my opinion is that the club has been consistently trending upwards since 2009, and even when we've messed up, I've seen that we have the talent and the people to get out of it still.

Obviously, I'd rather we didn't put ourselves in that position again, but the point is, I've seen this Richmond outfit at their best, and at their best, they can smash the Hawks, who are the current back-to-back premiers, and have lost about 9 games in the last 3 seasons (2 of them to us).

We are capable in terms of talent, but it takes more than talent, it takes consistency of performance, and I believe that we have the right people in place to achieve that consistency.

I'm 30 years old.

 

[Grockadoc]

Excellent PosItiVe post...

I just don't understand how people base development in terms of wins and losses, with no emphasis on the off field stuff.

A positive bottom line financially, board stability, quality assistant coaches and development staff, exceptional board members, a cohesive playing group.

All of these we currently have now, but have not had for decades. These sum up perfectly how much we have improved under Benny Gale and Dimma.

 

[ReaperX]

I'm 30 years old.

Fair enough. You seem older and more cantankerous, which is why I assumed. But it's the internet yo, never assume anything I guess!

I would have thought you'd understand better than many though, if you are in that Gen X group.

If we continually shoot down everything this club does, and only ever focus on the negatives of a situation, or in 50/50 situations always assume things will go against us, we'll forever be in this limbo of shitness.

It looked as if Geelong had snuffed their potential out post 2006, Thompson had built a decent list, but it just didn't seem like he was going to take them any further. The club put faith in him, he lifted, and so did the entire Geelong club, and they built a dynasty.

The inherent difference between us, is that I believe that kind of thing is not above the current playing group and coaching staff/administration, whereas you do. And we're both entitled to our opinions on it, I'm just saying that embracing who we have at the club and putting trust in them that they will do everything possible to get us into a position of sustained success, is a far more fulfilling way of following the club than always picking everything that they do to shreds.

 

[Tigerbob]

Fair enough. You seem older and more cantankerous, which is why I assumed. But it's the internet yo, never assume anything I guess!

I would have thought you'd understand better than many though, if you are in that Gen X group.

If we continually shoot down everything this club does, and only ever focus on the negatives of a situation, or in 50/50 situations always assume things will go against us, we'll forever be in this limbo of shitness.

It looked as if Geelong had snuffed their potential out post 2006, Thompson had built a decent list, but it just didn't seem like he was going to take them any further. The club put faith in him, he lifted, and so did the entire Geelong club, and they built a dynasty.

The inherent difference between us, is that I believe that kind of thing is not above the current playing group and coaching staff/administration, whereas you do. And we're both entitled to our opinions on it, I'm just saying that embracing who we have at the club and putting trust in them that they will do everything possible to get us into a position of sustained success, is a far more fulfilling way of following the club than always picking everything that they do to shreds.

I'm also a shit stirrer by nature and love debate so I can push topics to the extreme.

I don't have a lot of faith in what's happening though cause I see how other clubs conduct themselves.

 

[ReaperX]

I just don't understand how people base development in terms of wins and losses, with no emphasis on the off field stuff.

A positive bottom line financially, board stability, quality assistant coaches and development staff, exceptional board members, a cohesive playing group.

All of these we currently have now, but have not had for decades. These sum up perfectly how much we have improved under Benny Gale and Dimma.

THIS!

That stuff mentioned is the foundation that we've never had in the modern era... until now!

I mentioned Geelong's dynasty before. It wasn't just Thompson and the playing group, it was also Costa/Cook behind the scenes setting them up, even during those years prior to the Cats winning their premierships and playing in like 7 preliminary finals in a row or whatever ridiculous feat it was.

THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[ReaperX]

I'm also a shit stirrer by nature and love debate so I can push topics to the extreme.

I don't have a lot of faith in what's happening though cause I see how other clubs conduct themselves.

Dude in a way I am too, but one of the few things in life I take very seriously is this football club (probably too seriously sometimes if I am being honest).

If you offered me $100,000 cash right now, or gave me the chance to turn it away but that guaranteed Richmond would win the next 3 premierships, I wouldn't take the money. And I know it's easy to say that on an internet forum lol, but I'm dead serious about that!

This club is everything to me, and I hate it when I see fellow supporters ripping the heart out of it with negativity. We NEED to be behind them, and totally committed to seeing this vision out, because in all honesty, the SUPPORTERS are the ones to blame for alot of the shit that happened in the 80's and 90's, and maybe even early 00's.

It's our impatience that has spilled over and made previous admins/boardrooms make the snap, destabilizing decisions that destroyed the RFC in the last 30 years. THAT BULLSHIT MUST STOP!

And to have it stop, that means ALL of us getting on board, and trusting the people that are paid the big bucks, and have the expertise to get the job done. There simply cannot be room for another supporter-led mutiny at this football club, or it's curtains for us.

Believe it or not, and as silly as it sounds, if we're to COMPLETELY change the culture of this footy club, it actually starts on places like BigFooty, where the masses see how we conduct ourselves and how much pride we have in our people.

 

[Equus]

You really all should meet up one day.

 

[tigs2010]

I'm 30 years old.

You old campaigner

 

[Equus]

Been on the board since 17 years old Tigerbob...jesus....

 

[Tigerbob]

You really all should meet up one day.

I never want to be in the same suburb as tigs2010

 

[Tigerbob]

Been on the board since 17 years old Tigerbob...jesus....

Seems like yesterday.

 

[tigs2010]

I never want to be in the same suburb as tigs2010

I'm going to drive through your area tomorrow lol